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excon · Aug 29, 2009, 09:07 AM

Hello:

It used to be that the GOVERNMENT paid the cost of running the justice system, just like they paid for roads... But, that was a time when rehabilitation was the intent of the "corrections" system, too. That's why it was called corrections.

Anyway, they discovered that correcting people didn't work very well, so they started punishing them instead. Part and parcel of that punishment is making the convict PAY for services that the state previously paid for...

But, somewhere along the line, paying because it's part of the punishment got mixed up with paying because it's a PROFIT center. That would be a CAPTIVE (in the REAL sense) profit center too. Prisoners have NO choice, and in my view, they are getting RIPPED OFF.

If a convict is going to use the phone, he MUST call collect through the prisons CHOSEN provider of telephone services... Even a SHORT phone call costs the family of the imprisoned, at least $10. Convicts pay TWICE the price you do for candy and shaving gear... They PAY for their private probation officers... They PAY for the prisons run by private industry...

Oh, yeah. Did I mention the cops who can rip people off and keep the money in drug prosecutions?? They do...

So, if you wonder WHY we are the worlds LARGEST jailer, it might just be because it's a highly PROFITABLE endeavor.

excon

s_cianci · Aug 29, 2009, 09:26 AM

I don't doubt that sometimes convicts are ripped off by the system. After all, a $10 collect call is a little ridiculous unless you're calling China and talking for an hour. As for what they pay for candy and shaving gear and the like, I'll take your word for it. As for the US being the world's largest jailer, I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective. It seems like we often incarcerate people who ought not to be incarcerated. By that, I mean so-called "non-violent" criminals. Like so-called "deadbeat dads" who don't pay child support. Or other types of "deadbeats" who haven't paid outstanding traffic fines. Now I know I'll probably get my head ripped off for suggesting that deadbeat dads ought not to be incarcerated but I believe that jails and prisons should be reserved for the most dangerous criminals ; those who pose a real threat to society. Let's face it ; the unemployed truck driver next door who isn't paying his child support isn't much of a threat to me and my family. As for that matter, neither is the guy across the street who runs an illegal sports betting ring. But the gun-toting bank robber, on the other hand, is a real threat and he's the guy who ought to be locked up. Restitution and community service, in my opinion, make much better sentences for a lot of criminals than incarceration. Convicts on community service can do a lot of things, such as trash cleanup, that would otherwise burden the taxpayers. They can also do things more directly related to their crimes. For example, a deadbeat dad can be sentenced to work at a children's shelter or a welfare office. The operator of a dog-fighting ring can work at an animal shelter. I believe in truly making the punishment fit the crime and the best way to do that is to make the offender "give back", so to speak, what he took away with his crime in the first place.

excon · Aug 29, 2009, 09:32 AM

Hello s:

Out of greenies, but you're right on.

excon

speedball1 · Aug 29, 2009, 09:47 AM

I like the way you guys think!

rxnarunner · Sep 1, 2009, 05:06 PM

I agree. First two posts are right on!!

twinkiedooter · Sep 11, 2009, 08:21 PM

America's jails are definitely overcrowded. Just take a look any night of the week on the television and you'll see the rash of jail programs that are on lately. Cheap entertainment. Cheap to produce. Almost like the "Cops" series but take it a step further and really exploit the criminals.

What they don't show in these TV shows or series is the fact that it is sheer boredom and sheer terror all at once and you must add the extreme anxiety caused by being caged and not allowed your freedom. The mental anguish caused by all the hours in jail just trying to keep your sanity is beyond description. How would you like to pay 50 cents for a 10 cent Ramen Noodle pack? Like Excon said, a $10 phone call is nothing.

The Pay to Stay scam is ridiculous. Some counties in Ohio tried that and they got nowhere except make a few collection companies rich as no one could pay the $30 a day charge! All the county got was the privilege of putting a judgment out against the person for several thousand dollars in hopes that the exinmate would win the lottery and they could collect or the exinmate would own real estate and sell it and the county could swoop in and collect their judgment. Ohio got smart and stopped that baloney. There are a few folks left with judgments against them from this "wave" of stupidity on the part of the counties that participated in this nonsense.

How would you like to be in jail or prison and be denied an extra blanket to sleep with at night even if you could afford to BUY it for yourself and were denied the privilege of buying it as more than 2 blankets were against the rules? How would you like to eat monotonous meals every week where the meal calendar was posted by the month and repeated ad nauseum with no hope of changing? How would you like sleeping under extremely thread bare sheets or having to dry off with a towel that was not much bigger than a hand towel you had at home? Oh sure, you can buy items from the commissary, but the items are extremely limited in selection and are extremely pricey.

I feel that jail, of course, should be for the violent criminals. I liked the idea of the punishment fitting the crime, but then, what would be the punishment for habitual DUI or DWI folks?

Jail and prison are there for a reason. To hopefully give the criminal time to think about what they did and to hopefully make them realize that if they keep doing this or that crime that they will be back there looking at the 4 walls and looking at the other folks that they would never willingly associate with outside of jail under even good conditions. Crimes are easy to commit. Jail time is never easy to do.

MsMewiththat · Sep 11, 2009, 09:07 PM

There is currently a case in MN about the corruption. Review calls out Minnesota Gang Task Force - Topix amazing.

Who said it was right for prisoners to pay their way out with turning someone else in? It doesn't seem fair

snippy07 · Sep 11, 2009, 09:22 PM

In my opinion what's wrong with over charging people in prison? Saves tax payers money if I'm not mistaken. It's not the tax payers fault people are getting sent to prison for making poor choices.

excon · Sep 11, 2009, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by snippy07

In my opinion what's wrong with over charging people in prison?

Hello snippy:

It's not a matter of making their time in prison easier. It's also not a matter of making it harder either... It's NOT really about THEM at all. It's really about US.

Everyone of them, with few exceptions, will be out at sometime. It's not in society's interest to dump these people on the streets, ANGRY from being abused in the joint, with NO money and NO skills.

That guy is more than likely to partake in crime once again. Do I think that if we didn't rip them off, and attempted to give them some skills that could keep them out of the joint, that MOST of them would never return??

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say MOST. But, if we can improve our rate a little bit, we'll SAVE money.

excon

snippy07 · Sep 11, 2009, 09:59 PM

I do somewhat agree with you excon.

BUT

We could just have HARSHER punishments like some other countries, which would cut down criminal activity.

I think it's the japanese where if somebody murders another person. That person is then executed with a bullet to the head, and that bullet is then mailed to the murderers family as a bill which the family has to pay. This is what a history teacher told me in the past anyway, it could be false.

But imagine if we had HARSH punishments. Criminals are lucky they are not living in other countries committing crimes.

s_cianci · Sep 12, 2009, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by snippy07

In my opinion what's wrong with over charging people in prison? Saves tax payers money if I'm not mistaken. It's not the tax payers fault people are getting sent to prison for making poor choices.

But that's just it. My argument is that by reducing the prison populations down to the bare minimum and incarcerating only those people who are a real danger, the taxpayers will save lots of $$. And by having convicts perform community service as their "sentence" the savings will be even greater as they'd be doing for free what, right now, tax dollars are used for paying salaries. Of course, another alternative is to do what was done in colonial times and not use incarceration as a means of punishment at all. Back then jails were just holding cells and that was it, while the defendant awaited trial. And it wasn't a case of months and months before the case made it to court, either. After the trial, if the defendant was convicted, the sentence was carried out right then and there and that was that ; flogging, placed in the stocks, branding, hanging, whatever. But being placed in jail and left to rot wasn't an option.

s_cianci · Sep 12, 2009, 08:01 AM

but then, what would be the punishment for habitual DUI or DWI folks?

Well, start with the obvious ; take their license and mandatory participation in AA or similar program. Other than that, perhaps work in a hospital tending to patients who've been injured by drunk drivers. Making restitution to anyone injured or with damaged property as a result of their DUI (if they have the means to pay) is another option.

snippy07 · Sep 12, 2009, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by s_cianci

Well, start with the obvious ; take their license and mandatory participation in AA or similar program. Other than that, perhaps work in a hospital tending to patients who've been injured by drunk drivers. Making restitution to anyone injured or with damaged property as a result of their DUI (if they have the means to pay) is another option.

There are people who have had there license revoked over 5 times, yet they still get it back eventually and repeat the same mistake. If there was a harsh punishment like 5 years in jail, this wouldn't be happening as much because more people would be terrified.

twinkiedooter · Sep 12, 2009, 02:55 PM

If you force a prisoner to pay for their stay you are definitely going to have one angry mother when they get out. Not only do they not have a job, they probably don't have any money to their name either, and they are hobbled by a judgment against them for at least $5,000 for a 3 month stay in the can. How can they possibly pay this? They can't and won't.

So just how does that logic pay for prisoner's stay when the poor guy/gal getting out of prison or county jail can't possibly pay for their "stay"? It make no sense whatsoever to keep charging criminals for their stays when concieveably they can never and will never pay. So who's going to work at the jail/prison for free when there is no money flowing into the coffers from the previous "tenants"? There won't be any money coming in period.

twinkiedooter · Sep 12, 2009, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by s_cianci

Well, start with the obvious ; take their license and mandatory participation in AA or similar program. Other than that, perhaps work in a hospital tending to patients who've been injured by drunk drivers. Making restitution to anyone injured or with damaged property as a result of their DUI (if they have the means to pay) is another option.

The Courts already take driver's licenses, impose swell fines and insist on AA participation if it is alcohol. I would not want someone "tending" to me in a hospital that was an active drunk. Sorry. I want medically trained individuals doing that. Maybe the drunk can mop the floors of all the puke and blood instead. Or he/she could clean all the toilets in the hospital as part of their "rehabilitation". Drunks already are court ordered to make restitution to anyone injured or any property damaged. What's new about that? Nothing. Maybe the drunks need to do something creative like wash the police cars down at the station at the rate of $6 an hour to pay back their fine if they can't pay.

Right now there are too many folks out there who have to do some sort of community service in order to receive Food Stamp assistance or welfare of some sort. They are already running out of community service jobs for these folks to do. And you want the drunks to take their jobs over? Don't think there are enough jobs out there in some small communities as it is.