[Alty]

The Christian Nation Myth

That's all I have to say. :)

[galveston]

Well no. There were a lot of replies to your statements starting on page 5 but you blew right through those.

Don't you agree that this country was founded by Christians? Did you even read the list?

Yes, they founded a SECULAR government, for excellent reasons.

No, they did not found an anti-God or anti-Christ government, as seems to be the opinion of some people.

You are not one of these people are you?

[Alty]

Don't you agree that this country was founded by Christians? Did you even read the list?

Yes, they founded a SECULAR government, for excellent reasons.

No, they did not found an anti-God or anti-Christ government, as seems to be the opinion of some people.

You are not one of these people are you?

Did you read my link?

Also, Deists aren't "anti-God". Do you even know the definition of Deism?

[galveston]

Did you read my link?

Also, Deists aren't "anti-God". Do you even know the definition of Deism?

That is not even close to what I said.

[Alty]

That is not even close to what I said.

Then I apologize.

I ask again, did you read the link I provided?

[hheath541]

Don't you agree that this country was founded by Christians? Did you even read the list?

Yes, they founded a SECULAR government, for excellent reasons.

No, they did not found an anti-God or anti-Christ government, as seems to be the opinion of some people.

You are not one of these people are you?

No, they founded a government they wanted to accepting of ALL gods and religions. It got messed up after that, mostly by the people who think that the government was formed as some sort of legal extension of the christian church.

[galveston]

Did you read my link?

Also, Deists aren't "anti-God". Do you even know the definition of Deism?

QUOTE=Altenweg;1955413]Did you read my link?

Also, Deists aren't "anti-God". Do you even know the definition of Deism?[/QUOTE]

That is not even close to what I said.

Of course, I expect that ALL the signers did not want a government sponsored religion. They had recently had a really good look at that and rejected it.

That does not mean that they were anti-religion. They in fact considered themselves to be Christians.

You like to cite Jefferson for your support, but he said on more than one occasion thet he greatly admired Jesus.

You point to Franklin as being Deist, but in spite of that, it was Franklin that urged the convention to have a special time of prayer for the establishment of a government. He believed in prayer, and he was right!

You can't seem to understand the difference between honoring Christian principles and calling for the establishment of a theocracy.

Many of our past presidents have called for times of prayer, and have honored God by their proclamations.

Where does your opposition to all things religious in our national life spring from?

[Alty]

Where does your opposition to all things religious in our national life spring from?

This has nothing to do with opposition to religion. Deism is a religious belief, I should know, I am a Deist.

That does not mean that they were anti-religion. They in fact considered themselves to be Christians.

Maybe this link will help you understand.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...AQxc0amutAeYOQ

[inthebox]

Yes, they are. Now, go use one of those "amazing" search engines to see how all of those things Cats listed are all related to religion. If you can find yourself information (no, I am not going to read it because I know it's all religion-related) then you can find information for Cats' examples (and I know those are religion-related also).





Cat's is a statement - no links supplied. I supplied links backing up what I say. Cat's has not.


Okay, it literally says nothing about Christian values or beliefs. In fact, it doesn't even use the word "God". Because it says "creator" I could see aethists seeing their parents as their "creator(s)", so I still have to ask how that says anything about a Christian God?



See prior posts by Gal showing that the majority of the founding fathers were Christian. so who do you think a Christian would refer to as their creator?



My statement was not that Christianity is "bad", but rather that your statement that a Christian background for this country is not only unmerited, but not inherently "good" as there are "bad" things that have come of it.




Good. Besides the molestation (which is more about the individuals than the religion) you only listed two events that happened outside of the jurisdiction of this country.
Now, go look up all of that stuff that Cats listed, and see how religious influence in this country is not always a good thing. Until you do that, since you've been defending religious influence in this country, don't claim that you're looking at the other side of things.



At least I have the integrity to acknowledge where the other side's argument may be coming from, and then counter with facts.



It's a public forum, get over it.
If you wanted to talk to Cats personally, send him a PM. Otherwise, it's a free country, and a free board, don't complain if someone else replies to your message.



Exactly, I want what I state to be public, just like every post here is public. I never complained, just debating.




I'll respond to the rest of what you said in a minute, it's horribly hard to quote it like you posted it.

Hey, it is easier to counter statement for statement like this, otherwise you can copy and paste.



;)


G&P

[inthebox]

you are only looking at test scores of different ethnic backgrounds WITHIN america. i was talking about the school systems in different COUNTRIES. they are not the same thing and you cannot use america standardized testing to judge the knowledge base and curriculum in other countries. you not only didn't prove your point, you failed to even make a dent in mine.

The point being, religion or no religion is a non-factor. I'll state it again: parental factors, or the lack of parental factors, are the biggest influence on academic achievement, not religious affiliation or lack of one.

To associate the US's reportedly poor academic achievement to Christianity or the Christian culture is false. There are too many other factors that influence academic achievement. I point to one of them.



G&P

[hheath541]

The point being, religion or no religion is a non-factor. I'll state it again: parental factors, or the lack of parental factors, are the biggest influence on academic achievement, not religious affiliation or lack of one.

To associate the US's reportedly poor academic achievement to Christianity or the Christian culture is false. There are too many other factors that influence academic achievement. I point to one of them.



G&P

Exactly, and if you read over all my other posts you will realize that I have never blamed christianity, merely pointed out that saying it is the sole reason for this country's 'success' is false.

[NeedKarma]

The point being, religion or no religion is a non-factor. I'll state it again: parental factors, or the lack of parental factors, are the biggest influence on academic achievement, not religious affiliation or lack of one.

To associate the US's reportedly poor academic achievement to Christianity or the Christian culture is false. There are too many other factors that influence academic achievement. I point to one of them.

I totally agree with you! Is this one of the signs of the end times? :)

[inthebox]

Nah, I agree with your emphasis on family too ;)


G&P