[ellie010101]

My dad’s brother died on Boxing Day 2004, he was 55 years old he died suddenly from a heart attack. My dad took it very hard and started drinking heavily. He had always liked a drink but he started going to the pub more often and also drinking at home a lot. We all tried talking to him telling him it was getting out of control, but I think he thought he could stop anytime.

Now he has hit rock bottom, he drinks everyday. He hardly leaves the house anymore only to get Vodka, he doesn’t even go to the pub. His body, I think is shutting down. All he does is cry, sleep and of course drink, his body is rattling. He needs my mum at his side holding his hand. He can’t sleep which means my mum is up all night with him. He’s physically and mentally suffering. He went to see the Doctor but they can’t help with the depression until he stops drinking. We managed to get him to phone AA and he said he would drop in to their centre but he’s now putting that off. He is begging us for help. We called the doctor out because we can’t cope we think he’s going to have a total breakdown, but again they can’t help until he stops drinking.

How can we get help for him?

[AKaeTrue]

Do you not have facilities where your dad can go to detox?
Maybe you or your mom can contact the AA program to find out where he can go.
I'm sure you'll get a lot of good advise on how to help your dad from members of this forum that know more on the subject. Keep checking back...

[renolenny]

My name is Leonard and I am a recovering alcoholic. It has taken me a long time to be able to use that phrase. I am 56 years old and started drinking in my early twenties. Life was good for a long time until the booze took control of my life and took me places where no sane person would go. I have been sober for over two years now . I well remember begging my wife to "Help me, please help " after falling down so drunk I couldn't crawl. Her response was "I can't help you any more, I've done all that I can." A few years ago {4}, I signed myself into a treatment centre, completed the program and went back drinking for another 6 months, got arrested, lost my license, and kept on drinking. I continued to drink until one day at 2 in the morning, laying in a back alley with my face in the gravel, on the way home from the liquor store; I heard a voice say to me "Leonard, you can"t go on like this". I stopped drinking three days later and havn"t touched anything since. I started going to AA, spent 18 months in those rooms and then left AA. My live has become better in ways that are unreal since I stopped drinking. Your father is still getting access to alcohol , I used to hide bottles in the garage and house. It is difficult for me to suggest a course of action, but the family could try to prevent him getting alcohol as a starter. If you can dry him out for a time being, his depression should start to lift as his mind clears , he may come to realize the harm he is doing to himself and his family. He will never deal with the loss of his brother from the bottom of a bottle. My father died of cancer while I was drinking, and I never came to grips with that until I entered soberity. You can get your hands on a book about Alcoholism, Called Under the Influence, By James Milan and Kathern Ketchum . This book gave me the ability to understand how my life had changed because of alcohol, and I didn't even realize it. I will follow this posting for the next while , I'm sure there are others who will share their experience with you. Best wishes Renolenny

[renolenny]

I have just been reading some of the other posts about alcoholism and something came to mind. My doctor told me I was an alcoholic, he knew from the condition of my liver, and the results of the blood tests he had done. He also told me I was suffering from alcoholic paranoia at the time. Everyone was out to get me. IT WAS ONLY UNTIL I MYSELF CAME TO Believe I WAS AN ALCOHOLIC; That I was able to take the first steps toward recovery. It is a scary thing to realize, but until I believed that I had the power to drink myself to death or kill myself in an accident I was not willing to stop. No doctor, wife, parent, friend, son, brother, sister, could convince me to quit. AT SOME POINT I WANTED TO QUIT, for that I am eternly grateful. Renolenny

[valinors_sorrow]

I am so sorry to hear about the suffering of your family, especially your father. I think two things are at play here: the emotional unraveling by unresolved grief and the alcoholism-- from the details of your story. I suspect by your language that you live outside the US where I am not as familiar with what is possible, so some of this may be incorrect. I apologise.

I would, as AkaeTrue suggests, call your local AA and ask for their recommendations even though they will tell you about how they can't help unless he makes the request for help. Ask about a detox center or treatment facility and especially psychiatric care. Because it appears that his grief has overtaken him as well as the drinking, a two fold approach simultaneously would be better.

If psychiatric care would get involved, its possible to offer some ray of hope to him. He could then be encouraged, supported to call AA. Might there be a treament facility near by that could orchestrate an intervention or at least coordinate a two-fold approach.

I don't know if any of it will work. In the US, if your dad declines the help, that would be that, sadly. We are a country of rights and adults may drink themselves to death, if they wish. I don't ordinarily suggest the level of involvement for getting help as I am advocating to you (read through other posts and you'll see what I mean) but I am impressed that perhaps your father is so sick from grief that he isn't in a position to do anything but wish he were dead. And that is a different matter than alcoholism. I too had to have a two-fold approach and nearly died trying one without the other from both directions. I am alcoholic as well as ptsd (post traumatic stress disorder).

Let me know how that goes and if its snagging, how so and we'll put the thinking cap on to see what else we can come up with.

[valinors_sorrow]

Just as a note of clarification, AA thinks it's a disease of the body, an allergy of sorts as well and further believes that its something one has for life. AA believes it is necessary to abstain from all alcohol in order to arrest the disease. Its member believe, as a result of other's experiences, that its very risky for someone to think they are cured from it (as the result of a diet modification or anything else) and can begin drinking safely again. While I have no doubt that the percentage of alcoholics who have sugar-related difficulties is higher than average, there have not been conclusive studies that suggest that treatment is effective with diet modifications alone.

[AKaeTrue]

Could it be possible that there is no wrong answer here for alcoholism?
I'm not an expert on the subject, but I would suspect that the cause for one persons addition could differ from the next. There's a long haul between Hypoglycemia and psychological disorders.
If one has Hypoglycemia which caused an alcohol addition, or if one shows symptoms of depression because they're hypoglycemic and turns to alcohol as a result, then recovery could very well be successful by nutritional means alone. However, if the addict is not hypoglycemic and psychological disorders (hereditary or not) played a roll in themselves medicating techniques, then would it be safe to assume that a change in diet, other than promoting a healthier body and lifestyle, would do little for the actual cause of their addiction? And, what about the people who were perfectly healthy before they drank?
To me, I view it as a very complicated illness that is not fully understood yet. I feel it's wise to take every possible cause and treatment options into consideration for a successful recovery.

[renolenny]

I am very much inclined to agree with jurplsman. My first attempt a soberity was to enter a treatment centre. One of the requirements for this was 10 days of soberity prior to admission. While there I had three square meals a day and plenty of rest. When I left, my physical health was far better than it had been in the previous year. Alcoholics are prone to malnutrition because the booze takes the place of food and the calories are empty. As time passes and you continue to drink, the body starts to shut down. Detox and nutrition must come first. In my case it was the mental condition of thinking I could still drink that led me back out for another 7 months. I finally stopped after coming to believe I would drink myself to death. Unfortunately, AA is seriously lacking in educating alcoholics about getting their physical health back. The Big Book was written so long ago and the "program of AA" is not treatment; that I finally left the rooms and continue to educate myself via research and communication about alcoholism. You will not get knowledge about alcoholism in AA, because AA is not about soberity, but about working the program ,whatever the hell that means.

[curlybenswife]

Just wanted to share my story here...
I was 21 when my father died he was an ALCOHOLIC I remember him drinking from the age of 12 but my mum says it was earlier than that as I was a child I don't remember all I saw was a hero he was my dad after all.
So he would get up at 5am and crack open a can of beer and that was it till midnight he drank and drank as I got older I was noticing the stuff like bottles of vodka stashed everywhere!
He was always an ALCOHOLIC but it got worse when his mum died and he lost his job as they caught him drinking while at work... the next nine years were hell my sister moved out and I was left to face the raff of my drunken father and a mother who would stick up to him through fear of what he would do to her if he didn't, so by 21 I can't stand any more I buy a house and move out mean while I leave my mum with a 52 year old man who was even pissing himself because he just couldn't be bothered to move.
We made him go to the dr he was told yes mr stevens you are killing yourself from the blood works I can't say how long you have could be 6 weeks could be 6 months even 6 years but what you are drinking is killing you but also keeping you alive you have two choices help yourself or die.
6 weeks later he died he has been dead 8 years there isn't a day go by I think what if we had helped him sooner but sadly here they tell you unless they ask for help they won't be willing to help themselves so he basically killed himself slowly along with his marriage and any respect I had for him went years before he died id go so far as to say I hate him still for what he did but deep down I miss him because he was my dad and nothing can change that.
My advice to you well no screaming and shouting will make him any better I honestly think he needs to deal with his grief a lot of men hide it and never let it out and find other ways to release i.e drink if you can talk with your family and get there support your half way there you just have to get him to see what he is doing.
I wish you all the love and luck in the world it's a awful thing to watch anyone do young or old my heart so goes out to you and your family I wish you luck and I'm sorry I wasn't any help but I needed to type it struck to strong a chord in my heart not to.

[valinors_sorrow]

I am so sorry for your loss, Mrs Ben. It is a terrible thing to watch a loved one suffer and die in this way. You need not feel any burden of guilt-- you and your mum didn't know what you were up against. It is an equal opportunity destroyer but certainly does not belong on any moral basis. Its hard helping them because there is not only the alcoholic/addict's own resistance but there is the public's unawareness or misinformation too. I try to help on both accounts as often as I can about both addictions and mental illnesses, since both still carry a measurable stigma and are devastating to both the families and the one who desperately needs appropriate, effective help. I believe your telling of your real-life experience does more help than you might ever imagine. Thank you very much for sharing it here so that others may benefit.

I am very much inclined to agree with jurplsman. My first attempt a soberity was to enter a treatment centre. One of the requirements for this was 10 days of soberity prior to admission. While there I had three square meals a day and plenty of rest. When I left, my physical health was far better than it had been in the previous year. Alcoholics are prone to malnutrition because the booze takes the place of food and the calories are empty. As time passes and you continue to drink, the body starts to shut down. Detox and nutrition must come first. In my case it was the mental condition of thinking I could still drink that led me back out for another 7 months. I finally stopped after coming to beleive I would drink myself to death. Unfortunately, AA is seriously lacking in educating alcoholics about getting their physical health back. The Big Book was written so long ago and the "program of AA" is not treatment; that I finally left the rooms and continue to educate myself via research and communication about alcoholism. You will not get knowledge about alcoholism in AA, because AA is not about soberity, but about working the program ,whatever the hell that means.

Let me please add some factual information here. Granted AA is not for everyone. Nor is it considered "treatment" -- that is recognised as different by AA as well and rightly so (if you are confused as to the why it is different and needs to be, please feel free to ask me since I have more to share on that topic). AA is ongoing peer-based support for people who feel they need it. Most treatment centers make a strong recommendation to their patients upon discharge that they consider attending AA meetings.

Interestingly enough, Renolenny, if you had been working the same AA program that I know, adding anything else that benefits you would have been enthusiastically supported -- including good nutrition and exercise. And the book even says that too, in numerous places. "We seek outside help where its needed." Perhaps you listened to only the people there who say that AA is all they need -- good for them but it isn't the official position of AA. And like you, lots of people leave AA and they are just fine too although AA doesn't realise that - they only hear from the ones who return with bad news.

There is nothing that AA opposes but there are limitations as to how far they go. They wisely agreed long ago to leave the medical angle to the medical professionals. They did so in recognition that they are not nutritional experts, as in your example and that to attempt to be that is asking for controvesy and not focusing on the part they are successful with, which is helping someone stay sober long enough to call their doctor or nutritionalist and get a check up. Or anything else they might need "outside of AA". There is an important element of "first things first" in all this.

Good nutrition is only adjunct to getting sober. Had it been as significant a factor as was suggested here, you would not have relapsed after gaining back your health. It requires getting and staying sober long enough (using whatever method works for you) to incorporate good nutrition into your life, as your experience clearly demonstrated. Sobriety must come first or there is nothing to work with.

[renolenny]

Greetings Valinors_sorrow: I was under the impression the purpose of this thread was to assist Ellie010101 with her fathers' drinking; not to discuss the role of AA in Renolennys' life. However if you wish to post a new thread regarding the success or failure of AA in society, I will be willing to take part. Ellies father must stop drinking long enough for his body to start healing itself no ands buts or maybes> Regards Renolenny.

[valinors_sorrow]

Greetings Valinors_sorrow: I was under the impression the purpose of this thread was to assist Ellie010101 with her fathers' drinking; not to discuss the role of AA in Renolennys' life. However if you wish to post a new thread regarding the success or failure of AA in society, I will be willing to take part. Ellies father must stop drinking long enough for his body to start healing itself no ands buts or maybes> Regards Renolenny.

Greetings to you as well, Renolenny. I am very glad for your input here. Your experiences of AA and my experiences of AA (as well as anybody else's) are both helpful and appropriate to be viewed here for the OP or anyone else to consider. If you would like to start a new thread, please feel free to do that any time and for any reason. If I feel I can offer something of value, I promise to post something.

[ellie010101]

Thanks to everyone for their advice and sharing their stories.

We went to an Al-anon meeting hoping to get advise on how to help him get sober, but it wasn't really any help, it was more about helping ourselves. We are going to go to an open AA meeting tomorrow and I hope this will help us more.

Things are still the same with my dad, some days are better than others, the nighttime seems to the worst for him. We have started to water down his vodka and are trying to get him to cut down by drinking beer. Don't know if this is helping but he seems to be able to focus and is more aware of what's going on, he was even laughing at a film on the TV, and it's been a long time since we had seen him laugh.

Thanks again and I will let you know how we get on at the AA meeting.

[sissy2020]

It sounds like in-patient treatment is the only way to go. There are community resources that will work with him for free (depending on income level). Call your local Alcohol and Drug commission and ask them for the phone number or the process in checking him into an in-patient program. Once he has dried out then the depression should lift some. After he is clean the doctor can treat the depression. Alcoholism and depression walk hand in hand and become a terribly troubling circle.