[inthebox]

Obamacare, whatever that may be, is unpopular, not cost effective [ per the CBO], and offensive to the people it is to care for and from whom paid taxes into this.

It is time to move on and look at alternatives to Obamacare and the CURRENT healthcare system we have in place. The ultimate goal being to provide as much high quality care, for as many people as possible, that though may be expensive, is a good value for the taxpayors dollar.


If I may say so ET has weighed in here :

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ml#post1923967

John Mackey of Whole foods has opined here.

John Mackey: The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCare - WSJ.com

Rand Paul M.D. [ Ron Paul's son ] weighs in here after 5 minute mark

YouTube - Doctors Ron Paul & Rand Paul On Health Care Reform

here is Safeway's

How Safeway Is Cutting Health-Care Costs - WSJ.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We don't have to accept the status quo and we don't have to forced into Obamacare, there are other SUCCESSFUL alternative models out there.


What are your thoughts

[Wondergirl]

Obamacare, whatever that may be, is unpopular

Whatcha talkin' 'bout, Willis? A bill hasn't even been written yet, much less passed and signed. There is nothing in existence yet to be unpopular.

[450donn]

HUH!!
The anointed one demanded that this "non" bill be passed by congress before the recess. So what is it that Nobama was demanding be passed. Another piece of garbage to waste another trillion dollars on?
If there is not bill how can congress vote for or against it? Oh I forget the Pelosi/Reid run congress is just suppose to sign and approve no matter what in your book.
What is funny is the ear ful that these dolts are hearing from their town hall meetings. And don't go off and claim the repubs are packing the house. There are pictures of Acorn and SEIU doing just that yesterday in PA. So who is doing what to who?

[Wondergirl]

HUH!!!
The anointed one demanded that this "non" bill be passed by congress before the recess. So what is it that Nobama was demanding be passed. Another piece of garbage to waste another trillion dollars on?

Read my lips. There is no final bill yet. Right now it's a proposal. President Obama had hoped the Congress would get it all together before the recess, but that didn't happen. Framing a final bill is what all the discussion is about.

[mathtutor]

What I don't understand is why not just extend the current Medicaid program to those who have no other alternative? Extend the eligibility for coverage beyond what it is now. Also provide incentives for employers to provide their employees with health insurance. Provide tax breaks to companies who provide health insurance to their employees, in proportion to the amount of insurance provided. Also require any companies bidding for government contracts to prove that they're providing health insurance to they're employees. These measures are all more effective than trying to institute a universal, government-run health care program.

[Wondergirl]

What I don't understand is why not just extend the current Medicaid program to those who have no other alternative? These measures are all more effective than trying to institute a universal, government-run health care program.

Medicaid IS a universal health care program. If someone who has no health insurance walks in to a hospital via the ER, he is supposed to be able to receive medical care. Medicare is also a govt-run health care program that generally kicks in once someone reaches the age of 65. The current proposal would be super Medicare.

[N0help4u]

That is why I don't understand why we need it a new health coverage plan because we could just modify the one we have now to expand to everybody.

Between:
Medicaid
Walking in the ER and being billed for payments
Grants like the Hill Burton and Chips
Medicare

I am sure they could fit everybody into one plan or another

[Wondergirl]

That is why I don't understand why we need it a new health coverage plan because we could just modify the one we have now to expand to everybody.

between:
medicaid
walking in the ER and being billed for payments
grants like the Hill Burton and Chips
medicare

I am sure they could fit everybody into one plan or another

That's exactly what would happen, and Grandma won't have to sit tied up in her wheelchair in front of the death panel.

[tomder55]

Wondergirl
The President is shilling for something in all the "town hall" meetings of Obots he attends.

You are distorting the facts to say that because there is no final bill then there is nothing in existance to be unpopular .

The fact is that there is a bill that made it out of committee in the House(H.R. 3200 America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 ) ;there is a Kennedy proposal in the Senate ;there is another bill being negotiated in the Senate Committee.The President urges us to support whatever it is that will emerge from the backroom deals, and that it needs to passed right now, preferably a couple of weeks ago,without any debate . The President has never advanced his own plan... he is relying on Congress. Why should it get passed without debate ;without public comment ,without listening to testimony? Why not eliminate a lot of the legal mumbo-jumbo in the House bill and just change the language of the controversial provisions if ,as they claim ,the provisions are being misinterpreted ?

If the President does NOT support the House bill he should make it clear to the public and do it today . He should not continue to defend the undefendable ;and lie about it's content when by his own admission he has not even read the bill on the House floor.

He would do a great service to advance his cause if he were to commit to signing onto to whatever law he signs for him and his family. Simularly ;everyone in Congress should make the same commitment.

inthebox

Did you see where patrons of Whole Foods are boycotting the business because Mackey dared to pen his op-ed about his ideas that doesn't concentrate money and power in the hands of politicians and bureaucrats ? He supplies his company with excellent comprehensive coverage and benefits , and he thinks his ideas would work nationally.
Careers: U.S. Benefits | WholeFoodsMarket.com

The boycott by the ignorant is gaining momentum on places like Twitter and Facebook.

Mackey;who cannot be accused of being a greedy capitalist (He does his job at Whole Foods for a dollar a year salary) has some pretty solid sensible libertarian solutions to Health care reform . But the people who are boycotting have lost sight of the big picture.


Medical saving accounts invested in safe options ,combined with catastrophic coverage ;elimination of individual state mandates or provide for the customer's right to negotiate with a plan provider outside the state ,would be my solution for most Americans .




Here is what I could purchase if I was allowed to purchase my Health Insurance from BCBS Georgia "Tonik Plan " for about $100/month :

• Network: PPO
• Deductible: $5,000
• Coinsurance (after deductible): 100%
• Physician Office visits: $20 copay for first 4 visits, then plan pays 100% after deductible.
• Drug Coverage: $10 generic / $30 preferred / $50 non-preferred.
• Physician Choice: Yes
• Dental Care: $0 for cleanings, exams and x-rays. You pay 20% for minor restorative procedures like fillings after $25 deductible.
• Vision care: Plan pays $50 toward a routine eye exam, glasses or contact lenses and you'll pay the rest.
• Professional Services (X-ray, lab, diagnostics, etc.): Plan pays 100%
• Outpatient Care: Plan pays 100%
• Hospital Inpatient Services: Plan pays 100%
• Emergency Care: Plan pays 100%
• Physical/Occupational Therapy, Chiropractic Services: Plan pays 100%
• Preventive Care : Plan pays 100%

But this plan is not available to people in most states.

The people who are not covered due to financial contraints should be incorporated into existing State and Federal programs . The libs shouldn't object to that since they ultimately want everyone in the contraints of a socialist single payer plan .But in case they do ,maybe they would prefer that the uninsured were given vouchers to negotiate a deal of their own . Add into this some tort reform and most of the problems with our system would be addressed.
Them we could address the reforms needed for Medicare/Medicaid .

[N0help4u]

That's exactly what would happen, and Grandma won't have to sit tied up in her wheelchair in front of the death panel.

I won't believe that until I see the actual bill he is trying to pass because I heard the exact pages that it is written that they WILL over see who gets care and who doesn't and it was four pages long and then later mentioned through out some other pages.

I did post the pages on another post

[excon]

You are distorting the facts to say that because there is no final bill then there is nothing in existance to be unpopular .

Hello CB:

The BALLS of these rightwingers must be dragging on the ground...

excon

[inthebox]

Read my lips. There is no final bill yet. Right now it's a proposal. President Obama had hoped the Congress would get it all together before the recess, but that didn't happen. Framing a final bill is what all the discussion is about.

I agree, and it is ultimately up to us the Ameterican healthcare consumer to speak up about what we want, don't want, are willing to pay for.

Government rationing and lack of choice is definitely NOT WANTED.
Government run healthcare / universal healthcare leads to these undesirable effects.

The Canadian supreme court, in 2005, ruled that access to waiting lines is not access to healthcare, so private sector healthcare has since been allowed.

I don't see how POTUS Obama can say 1] you can keep your doctor, you can keep your private health insurance, and at the same time 2] state that the current form of healthcare has to change?




G&P

[inthebox]

Wondergirl
the President is shilling for something in all the "town hall" meetings of Obots he attends.

You are distorting the facts to say that because there is no final bill then there is nothing in existance to be unpopular .

The fact is that there is a bill that made it out of committee in the House(H.R. 3200 America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 ) ;there is a Kennedy proposal in the Senate ;there is another bill being negotiated in the Senate Committee.The President urges us to support whatever it is that will emerge from the backroom deals, and that it needs to passed right now, preferably a couple of weeks ago,without any debate . The President has never advanced his own plan....he is relying on Congress. Why should it get passed without debate ;without public comment ,without listening to testimony? Why not eliminate alot of the legal mumbo-jumbo in the House bill and just change the language of the controversial provisions if ,as they claim ,the provisions are being misinterpreted ?

If the President does NOT support the House bill he should make it clear to the public and do it today . He should not continue to defend the undefendable ;and lie about it's content when by his own admission he has not even read the bill on the House floor.

He would do a great service to advance his cause if he were to commit to signing onto to whatever law he signs for him and his family. Simularly ;everyone in Congress should make the same commitment.

inthebox

Did you see where patrons of Whole Foods are boycotting the business because Mackey dared to pen his op-ed about his ideas that doesn’t concentrate money and power in the hands of politicians and bureaucrats ? He supplies his company with excellent comprehensive coverage and benefits , and he thinks his ideas would work nationally.
Careers: U.S. Benefits | WholeFoodsMarket.com

The boycott by the ignorant is gaining momentum on places like Twitter and Facebook.

Mackey;who cannot be accused of being a greedy capitalist (He does his job at Whole Foods for a dollar a year salary) has some pretty solid sensible libertarian solutions to Health care reform . But the people who are boycotting have lost sight of the big picture.


Medical saving accounts invested in safe options ,combined with catastrophic coverage ;elimination of individual state mandates or provide for the customer's right to negotiate with a plan provider outside the state ,would be my solution for most Americans .




Here is what I could purchase if I was allowed to purchase my Health Insurance from BCBS Georgia "Tonik Plan " for about $100/month :

• Network: PPO
• Deductible: $5,000
• Coinsurance (after deductible): 100%
• Physician Office visits: $20 copay for first 4 visits, then plan pays 100% after deductible.
• Drug Coverage: $10 generic / $30 preferred / $50 non-preferred.
• Physician Choice: Yes
• Dental Care: $0 for cleanings, exams and x-rays. You pay 20% for minor restorative procedures like fillings after $25 deductible.
• Vision care: Plan pays $50 toward a routine eye exam, glasses or contact lenses and you'll pay the rest.
• Professional Services (X-ray, lab, diagnostics, etc.): Plan pays 100%
• Outpatient Care: Plan pays 100%
• Hospital Inpatient Services: Plan pays 100%
• Emergency Care: Plan pays 100%
• Physical/Occupational Therapy, Chiropractic Services: Plan pays 100%
• Preventive Care : Plan pays 100%

But this plan is not available to people in most states.

The people who are not covered due to financial contraints should be incorporated into existing State and Federal programs . The libs shouldn't object to that since they ultimately want everyone in the contraints of a socialist single payer plan .But in case they do ,maybe they would prefer that the uninsured were given vouchers to negotiate a deal of their own . Add into this some tort reform and most of the problems with our system would be addressed.
Them we could address the reforms needed for Medicare/Medicaid .

That is an excellent insurance plan, though a lot would hesitate at the $5000 deductible.

I do agree that there should be private health insurance reform:

1] If you don't have employer provided health insurance, you should be able to 100% be able to deduct the cost of your health insurance premiums. Those with health insurance through an employer SHOULD NOT have a tax advantage COMPARED TO those who don't have employer provided insurance benefits.

2] Health Savings Accounts [HSA] : pre tax money that can be used to offset the high deductible. You should be able to roll it over year to year.

3] NATIONWIDE health insurance, just like auto insurance. The health insurance co's should have to compete with each other nationwide, so that one or two insurance companies don't have a virtual dominance in one geographic area and can thus charge higher premiums for the coverage offered. This give the consumer more choice and the insurance companies more potential customers.

4] NO FOR PROFIT health insurance companies. Profit should be reinvested into the company, or given back in the form of lower premiums and or broader coverage to the consumer. The profit should go to the health insured rather just like it would go to the share holders.

5] Health insurance portability, to take with you between jobs, between moves, from year to year. - COBRA is way to expensive.

6] Multi -year health insurance contracts. Like term life. You apply and get a low rate while you are young and healthy and there is a contract that details the rate as you get older or should you develop and chronic illnessess.

7] As to pre existing illnessess, that coverage has to be transparent. You may be covered, but realistically, you will be paying higher rates, just like if you had 3 speeding tickets a year you will be paying more for auto insurance.





G&P

[Wondergirl]

I agree, and it is ultimately up to us the Ameterican healthcare consumer to speak up about what we want, don't want, are willing to pay for.

It looks like co-ops are the current consideration.

I don't see how POTUS Obama can say 1] you can keep your doctor, you can keep your private health insurance, and at the same time 2] state that the current form of healthcare has to change?

I have private coverage and have my own doctor, and feel that the current form has to change. I know too many people who are either out of work or, for some other reason, don't have private coverage.

[inthebox]

Is the reason they have no coverage because state regulations disallow national health insurance company competition, thereby increasing the cost to the consumer?
Or regulations that mandate coverage for things the individual consumer may never need, like pregnancy care.

Some of the young actually choose NOT to have health insurance. Would they be penalized if Obama mandated "universal" coverage?

As to loss of health insurance due to job loss, then fix the root problem, job loss.

--------------------------------------------------

The thought that expanding medicare or medicaid, in these economic times when it is predicted medicare will be in the red by 2017, make no sense at all.


--------------------------------------------------


Tom

Go figure, Whole Food's success in providing health insurance and good outcomes for its employees and for the dollar, is a reason to boycott? Just because he use his 1st Amendment right to express an opinion contrary to the Obama plan?




G&P


Have a policies that reward business growth, not penalize success with higher tax rates.

[Wondergirl]

Is the reason they have no coverage

Cost is too high for private coverage. For employees, workplace doesn't offer it.

why no health insurance

Part-time job, no coverage; also, employers are not required to offer health insurance to any employee.

[N0help4u]

.White House appears ready to drop 'public option'
.…
By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer Philip Elliott, Associated Press Writer – 49 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – Bowing to Republican pressure and an uneasy public, President Barack Obama's administration signaled Sunday it is ready to abandon the idea of giving Americans the option of government-run insurance as part of a new health care system.

Facing mounting opposition to the overhaul, administration officials left open the chance for a compromise with Republicans that would include health insurance cooperatives instead of a government-run plan. Such a concession probably would enrage Obama's liberal supporters but could deliver a much-needed victory on a top domestic priority opposed by GOP lawmakers.

Officials from both political parties reached across the aisle in an effort to find compromises on proposals they left behind when they returned to their districts for an August recess. Obama had wanted the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's almost 50 million uninsured, but didn't include it as one of his core principles of reform.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said that government alternative to private health insurance is "not the essential element" of the administration's health care overhaul. The White House would be open to co-ops, she said, a sign that Democrats want a compromise so they can declare a victory.

Under a proposal by Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D. consumer-owned nonprofit cooperatives would sell insurance in competition with private industry, not unlike the way electric and agriculture co-ops operate, especially in rural states such as his own.

With $3 billion to $4 billion in initial support from the government, the co-ops would operate under a national structure with state affiliates, but independent of the government. They would be required to maintain the type of financial reserves that private companies are required to keep in case of unexpectedly high claims.

"I think there will be a competitor to private insurers," Sebelius said. "That's really the essential part, is you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing."

Obama's spokesman refused to say a public option was a make-or-break choice.

"What I am saying is the bottom line for this for the president is, what we have to have is choice and competition in the insurance market," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Sunday.

A day before, Obama appeared to hedge his bets.

"All I'm saying is, though, that the public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform," Obama said at a town hall meeting in Grand Junction, Colo. "This is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it."

It's hardly the same rhetoric Obama employed during a constant, personal campaign for legislation.

White House appears ready to drop 'public option' - Yahoo! News

[Wondergirl]

.White House appears ready to drop 'public option.' White House appears ready to drop 'public option' - Yahoo! News[/url]

He's never tried to ram anything down anyone's throat, and has always been open to discussion--and has said so more than once.

[N0help4u]

No Obama doesn't ram, his Presidency tends to sneak.

[Wondergirl]

No Obama doesn't ram, his Presidency tends to sneak.

Please cite a "for instance."