[sunsham]

A prospective client for this product that I market has an open water source (which has fish) to water his lawn. He is interested in the benefits of the product but concerned about any possible effect on the fish. I too don't want to harm the system. But will APSA 80 actually harm them? I am not sure as it claims to be bio degradable..

[KUXJ]

Hi! sunsham, and Welcome to AMHD :)

A prospective client for this product that I market has an open water source (which has fish) to water his lawn. He is interested in the benefits of the product but concerned about any possible effect on the fish. I too dont want to harm the system. But will APSA 80 actually harm them? I am not sure as it claims to be bio degradable..

If you sell for Amway you should be up on these matters.

Here's a site you should have Bookmarked Amway 11th one down.

This is amway's MSDS

Look at section 14. It's listed as a marine pollutant for water transport.

Read the whole sheet, need I say more?

K

[binx44]

I agree with KUXJ on this one. If you sell for amway you should and MUST know these things before even thinking of selling it to anyone for any purpose... How long have you been selling amway products. Personally I wouldn't buy a product from someone who didn't know the product inside out especially things like herbicides and Non-Ionic surfacants like ASPA 80 is... ASPA is an additive to aid in the spreading of herbicides and fungicides. Its function is similar to teepol or Khadhi soap solution which the farmers usually mix with the pesticidal solution before spraying.
Their main function is to make the leaf absorb more nutrients or pesticidal chemicals by allowing the spray liquid to stand more on the leaf surfaces.

Yes this is classified as a Marine Pollutant. Therefore it is toxic to all or most Marine Organisms. Including marine animals and plants.

Only Aquamaster, Glypro, Rodeo, and some 4 lb ae/gal formulations of glyphosate can be applied on water because they do not include adjuvants that are toxic to fish and aquatic life.

For any herbicide used in and around water, you should add only approved surfactants for effective weed control. Some surfactants labeled for use in and around water are: Activate Plus, Agridex, Class Act NG, Induce, Liberate, LI-700, Preference, R-11, Widespread, and X-77.


*edit*... By the way. Just because something is biodegratable doesn't mean it is OK for the environment
APSA 80 is hazardous according to the criteria of the OSHA Hazard Communication
Standard.
APSA 80 is classified as a ENVIRONMENTALLY HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE, LIQUID N.O.S. (alcohol C13-15 poly (1-6)
ethoxylate)

Non-ionic surfactants are comprised of linear or nonyl-phenol alcohols and/or fatty acids. And ASPA 80 is an Non-Ionic surfacant.

[sunsham]

Hey you two thanks for your answer. Actually do you know everything about something before you walk out talking about it? I am learning and anyone in sales will tell you that people keep coming up with different angles and questions. The reason I am asking out here is to know and to learn, thanks for your reply, would have preferred a non judgemental approach too!

[KUXJ]

Hey you two thanks for your answer.

Your welcome.

Actually do you know everything about something before you walk out talking about it?

Pretty much, and if I'm unsure I use my reference material to double check it. That's what you should have done. If I can find the Amway MSDS sheets, Why couldn't you?

I am learning and anyone in sales will tell you that people keep coming up with different angles and questions.

That's to be expected when your in sales.
Where in your original post do you indicate that you are a neophyte salesperson?

A prospective client for this product that I market has an open water source (which has fish) to water his lawn. He is interested in the benefits of the product but concerned about any possible effect on the fish. I too don't want to harm the system. But will APSA 80 actually harm them? I am not sure as it claims to be bio degradable..

The reason I am asking out here is to know and to learn,

I was under the impression that Amway had its own training. Did they stop training their salespeople?

This says no: Amway Global Home, but a deeper Google search into amway reveals Lawsuits, Judgments, and decisions as late as March 17, 2009.
Amway Quixtar Antitrust Lawsuit | MLM Blog - Network Marketing Blog - MLM News - MLM Reviews,

And more here:
recent amway lawsuits - Google Search

That is why my response was acidic, I found it incredulous that you couldn't find this out at a Training/Sales meeting.

thanks for your reply,

Your welcome, again.

would have preferred a non judgemental approach too!

Now who is being judgmental?

Since it took twelve weeks for you to reply, (I always appreciate responses to my answers) I await your next reply around the 31st of January 2010.


K

[binx44]

I agree with K.. They should have had some sort of formal training as being ill trained in a topic such as pesticides when you are selling them could create harmful effects to the environment, and could have reprocussions. Such as lawsuits for failure to specify much needed important information.

I always check, double check then triple check my information before telling someone about it. Just like on here when I answer questions.. just because I have a degree in Forest and wildlife conservation doesn't mean I know everything perfect.. each day is a new learning experience so I've learned to check my materials and references very deeply before commenting or selling something.

We are not really being judgemental.. we are just concerned about our environment and the effects things can have on them (such as poor knowledge, harmful products among many other things) I even gave you a technical response including must know information about the chemical you are selling.. I was as nice as I could be. Though I still stand by what I say and I still 100% Agree with K on both posts he has posted.

[m0f0g0]

Leadership Team Development (LTD) is the training for amway salesmen

[levilueth]

If you read the APSA 80 MSDS sheet it will tell you that it is not a danger to the environment THEREFORE what training is there to do? There is no way you will ever sell APSA 80 if you know nothing about it if you read in a dictionary the meaning of an ADJUVANT it will explain that it is an agent that modifies the effect of other agents while having few if any direct effects when given by itself.Now if an ADJUVANT is used with something harmful to the environment then the harmful additive will be doing the harm as for APSA 80 it is basically the same as soap and not harmful at all IF YOUR CONCERNED ABOUT PEOPLE SELLING SOMETHING OF THIS NATURE PLEASE!! RUSH TO YOUR LOCAL GROCERY STORE AND TELL THEM TO SHUT DOWN UNTIL EACH EMPLOYEE IS TRAINED ON the chemical effects of soap that you wash down your drain every day!! Apsa 80 is not a pesticide, herbicide, fungicide or any other cide you can think of it simply makes the product that is used to make a good crop work better! So our farmers that feed us can make a living! Unless you would rather import junk from over seas then more power to you DON'T BAG ON SOMETHING YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT!! 1111

[levilueth]

As for the fish near by, adding apsa 80 to your lawn is perfectly safe and will save water by less evaporation off the top soil and better water absorption.So no harm to the environment it takes half the water used before APSA 80 no more water running off your lawn and being wasted in the gutter the water put on your lawn will go into your lawn..

[binx44]

Two things. Could this thread please be closed mods.. and to the junior member. I have a degree in forestry and wildlife conservation, and aquaculture. APSA can be harmful to fish... and please when you post keep everything to one post.

[mgzazaka]

Nice one sunsham... I agree... hey, at least be nice out there!.

[binx44]

No offence mgzazaka, welcome to AMHD but please refrain from posting in outdated topics. Thank you