[logan176]

2 years ago I bought a 50 year-old house about an hour north of NYC. This summer I've been trying to make my lawn look its best. However, there have been some hurdles. I believe I have 2 different types of weeds and possibly too much thatch. I've tried Scotts Weed and Feed as well as a weed killer by Ortho. Neither have stopped the weeds.


The first picture shows the weed/plant that I'm having the most trouble with. The Ortho weed killer browns this stuff, but won't completely kill it. After a while it just greens up and keeps coming back for more. This stuff is also spreading throughout my yard. Today I noticed that the stuff is pretty easy to yank up out of the soil... but I'm sure the roots still remain.

The second picture is another weed. This one seemed to be a little under control but then it started raining a lot this summer (I live in southern NY) and it came back strong.

The third picture is a cross section of my lawn and I think I have a nasty little thatch problem.

The fourth picture is another weed that I'm trying to kill.


So basically what steps do I have to take to fix up my lawn and in what month should I start?

[logan176]

Last year I tore out some bushes and leveled out part of my yard with new top soil. Then I planted perennial rye grass. The grass took pretty well, however it is much darker than the older grass. I planted the same seed from the same bag in other parts of my property and it did not grow that dark... so I'm thinking it's probably the soil.

Is there any way to blend my lawn a little better so there is not such a color difference?

[tickle]

Hi Logan, I have seen all of this weed detrius before in my yard and because we are below the water line adjacent to Lake Ontario, it is really damp practically all over my back garden.

You will have to put down many yards of top soil in order to raise that area up, level off and then either seed or sod.

You have to get rid of the dampness, and I know that sounds expensive,but if you want a good lawn without all of that weed that thrives on damp, then you will have to do it.

Another option is rottotilling the whole area.

Tick

[tickle]

Logan, there is absolutely no way to correct the colour difference this early in time. It will gradually happen over the years.

Tick

[KUXJ]

Hi! logan176

The first picture shows the weed/plant that I'm having the most trouble with. The Ortho weed killer browns this stuff, but won't completely kill it. After a while it just greens up and keeps coming back for more. This stuff is also spreading throughout my yard. Today I noticed that the stuff is pretty easy to yank up out of the soil... but I'm sure the roots still remain.

That would be Goosegrass.

The second picture is another weed. This one seemed to be a little under control but then it started raining a lot this summer (I live in southern NY) and it came back strong.

Wild Violets can be difficult to get rid of. The waxy coating on their leaves gives them protection to many of the chemical controls (organic or otherwise) that work on other weeds.
The best way to control them is to dig them up. Depending on how widespread they are, this may require several years to accomplish. For cool season lawns like yours, dig them up in the fall. You can reseed over any bare patches with a mixture of cool-season grass seed and compost. Make sure to water the new grass seed daily until it germinates.

Wild Violets seem to show up and spread faster in acidic soils and in soils lacking in calcium. Adding lime can help correct pH problems and may slow down their spread, but you will need to have your soil tested to know how much (if any) you need to add.

Proper lawn care can help, too. Give your (cool-season) lawn a good feeding this fall with a slow release organic fertilizer or even better, by spreading one-inch of compost over it followed by a good watering.

Once established, Wild Violets are almost impossible to eradicate completely, so you may want to try to make peace with the fact that you're always likely to have a few around.

Don't forget they are edible and lovely when added to salads or used as a garnish.
Common Blue Violet - Landscape Nursery and Urban Forestry - UMass Extension

The third picture is a cross section of my lawn and I think I have a nasty little thatch problem.

Not as bad as this

The fourth picture is another weed that I'm trying to kill.

That is a very mature Violet plant
Because of the violets, you already know you can add some lime and calcium, but I would start at the lightest amounts suggested on the bag until you get the reading back from your lab on what exactly is in your soil.

If you follow the steps outlined above for the violets you'll probably find your lawn will start to look nicer too, and that includes your other post.

So basically what steps do I have to take to fix up my lawn and in what month should I start?

Go Here It will tell you every thing you need to know, even goosegrass.
If you navigate to the weed control page it will tell you what herbicides to use.

4:22pm edt Merged "Newer grass is much darker than older grass" post because of similar nature.

K

[logan176]

Tickle,

Excess moisture is usually never an issue in my area. No one in my neighborhood can ever remember a summer that was this rainy. We have a high water table but no real surface water issues. Normally we have to put the sprinklers on 2x/week to keep a healthy looking lawn... this year I haven't turned them on once!

Will dethatching with a rake work or do I really have to tear up the whole yard?

[logan176]

Kuxj,

Thank you for the very detailed answer. Now that I know what I'm looking at, I'll be able to start taking better care of my lawn. As far as the thatch goes... from what I've read I can get a thatch rake and go through my whole yard. Does this sound correct to you?

[KUXJ]

Your welcome.
You can if you want to, won't hurt, Do you have a tractor? Rent a de-thatcher it'll be a lot easier on you,
But from your pix it really doesn't look that bad, besides a lawn needs some thatch, kind of like a natural mulch ;)

[tickle]

Tickle,

Excess moisture is usually never an issue in my area. No one in my neighborhood can ever remember a summer that was this rainy. We have a high water table but no real surface water issues. Normally we have to put the sprinklers on 2x/week to keep a healthy looking lawn... this year I haven't turned them on once!

Will dethatching with a rake work or do I really have to tear up the whole yard?!

Okay, here is your answer. I gave up on my lawn due to excess moisture and am on my way to having a complete garden over all; if you can imagine that. It is what most of us have had to do near the Lake with excessive moisture, and the rain on top of that. I live in southeastern Ontario. We have gotten, only yesterday, because I have been measuring, 8 inches of water in one night! My perennial garden has not suffered because there is not much that can harm anything I plant with all of this rain.

I refuse to dig up lawn and topdress in order to have a healthy lawn. I prefer all garden, interspersed with rockgardens, and small patios through. I use a lot of slate for walkways. You would never know there was once a lawn there. I have conquered the problem my own way.

I have, however, done what I suggested to you throughout the years in different locations, but that was when the cost was so much less then it is now to order, what, five yards of topsoil and have it dumped in an unaccessible place and move it with a wheelbarrow. Nope, not this time !

Tick

[KUXJ]

Hi! Tick

Okay, here is your answer. I gave up on my lawn due to excess moisture and am on my way to having a complete garden over all; if you can imagine that. It is what most of us have had to do near the Lake with excessive moisture, and the rain on top of that. I live in southeastern Ontario. We have gotten, only yesterday, because I have been measuring, 8 inches of water in one night !. My perennial garden has not suffered because there is not much that can harm anything I plant with all of this rain.

I gave up on the lower half of mine... "Declared Wetlands", so It gets to do what it wants, technicality I'm not even supposed to mow it, but I get the small grassy areas... That is a Lot of rain :eek: Are the Coy feeding well?

I refuse to dig up lawn and topdress in order to have a healthy lawn. I prefer all garden, interspersed with rockgardens, and small patios through. I use a lot of slate for walkways. You would never know there was once a lawn there. I have conquered the problem my own way.

A gardener after my own heart.

I have, however, done what I suggested to you throughout the years in different locations, but that was when the cost was so much less then it is now to order, what, five yards of topsoil and have it dumped in an unaccessible place and move it with a wheelbarrow. Nope, not this time !

tick

I can remember when Pop complained 'bout 45bucks for ten ton delivered, and I complained 'bout moving it. ;)

5yds = approx. 6.75t; price varies $150 to 350 + delivery

K

[tickle]

Hi! tick
...... That is a Lot of rain :eek: Are the Coy feeding well?

No coy, but the frogs are having a hayday and its a good thing I got a new roof last year !




5yds = approx. 6.75t; price varies $150 to 350 + delivery

k

Yep, and my buying time is right now when the garden centres are selling out. There is still a lot of growing season left for perennials and I don't have to pay $350 plus for top soil delivered !

Tick

[KUXJ]

yep, and my buying time is right now when the garden centres are selling out. There is still a lot of growing season left for perennials and I dont have to pay $350 plus for top soil delivered !

tick

I hear ya!

No coy, but the frogs are having a hayday and its a good thing I got a new roof last year !

West Nile scared everyone here....County Vector got involved with their pesticides, and now no "peepers" :( :( ,
Tadpoles were "thick as thieves", if you were real careful you could put a foot or hand in the pond an let em swim around ya. we miss em. :(

eddie wants to know if he can use your new roof for an emergency landing strip for his Bi-plane....in case :eek:
I already told him no!
Now he's :(

Ku

[tickle]

Hah ! It was just another excuse for more garden, anyway, my son is back with me so I have a good strong digger ! That does a lot for motivation, you know.

Tick

[logan176]

After I dethatch the yard I will overseed. After doing some reading I've seen that perennial rye and tall fescue are recommended for my area. Of those two grasses which one do you prefer for a sunny area?

[KUXJ]

After I dethatch the yard I will overseed. After doing some reading I've seen that perennial rye and tall fescue are recommended for my area. Of those two grasses which one do you prefer for a sunny area?

ahhh... grasshopper... both will do well for the solution you seek... but this is a choice only you can make.

[tickle]

Hi logan, the vescue is a good choice, this excerpt is from a garden site about the different vescue varieties. The only one I know of is an ornamental variety, very busy and blue coloured.

It appears you have made a good choice as in seed form to sow, itchokes out weeds when mature:

Most of the fescue grasses in use are tall fescue grasses. These grasses like to be kept at a moderate length of around two inches (five centimeters). They tend to have a coarse growth, and they will eventually mat to choke out weeds. Tall fescue grass also puts down strong, deep roots, which makes it an excellent candidate for erosion control. Some special varieties of fescue include creeping fescue, with a lower growth habit, along with blue fescue, red fescue, and hard fescue grass.

You had better make sure you get the creeping variety.

Tick

[logan176]

Within the readings on tall fescue I saw that "turf type" tall fescue is the one to use for lawns. Do I have to specifically read the back label and look for the words "turf type" or will any tall fescue mix I buy at Home Depot or Lowe's be the one I'm looking for?

Here is the information from some of the labels I've read. None specifically say "turf type":

Bag 1:
39% Rebel IV Tall Fescue
29% Rebel Pro Tall Fescue
29: Rebel 2000 Tall Fescue

Bag 2:
39% Greenkeeper WAF Tall Fescue
24% Raptor Tall Fescue
24% Dynasty Tall Fescue
9% Thermal Blue Kentucky Blue Grass

[KUXJ]

Within the readings on tall fescue I saw that "turf type" tall fescue is the one to use for lawns. Do I have to specifically read the back label and look for the words "turf type" or will any tall fescue mix I buy at Home Depot or Lowes be the one I'm looking for?

Here is the information from some of the labels I've read. None specifically say "turf type":

Bag 1:
39% Rebel IV Tall Fescue
29% Rebel Pro Tall Fescue
29: Rebel 2000 Tall Fescue

Bag 2:
39% Greenkeeper WAF Tall Fescue
24% Raptor Tall Fescue
24% Dynasty Tall Fescue
9% Thermal Blue Kentucky Blue Grass

I believe you said you were a little north of NYC.

There's a ton of information out there, but stick with tick with these sites from Cornell University, especially the link to "why Lawns matter", and
This site from rensselaer. At the end of the fact sheet it specifically says not to use ryegrass in your area

This one will give you guidance on seeding/overseeding. Again a Cornell site

So it looks like either one of those bags from the box stores will be okay. Their blends are usually matched with the area of the Country the store is located in.

You'll get there, but it is going to take at least two years, before you see improvement.

K

[logan176]

Okay, so I've been treating the weeds in my lawn as if they are goosegrass but it's not really working. They brown a little with weed killer but that's it. After doing some more research I think that the weed in my first pic is Nimblewill. From what I understand, this stuff is tough to get rid of and that I basically have to use a nonselective herbicide to wipe out everything and then start over from scratch.

Does anyone here have any experience dealing with Nimblewill?

[jonesjen]

I agree that it is not goose grass. I have it all over my lawn as well, and I can not get rid of it! I have used weed and feed, and some weed killers as well, it won't die!! I hope you get or already got some advise, because I need it too!! Will try to upload a photo of mine as well. I have what your first picture depicts!! And it is growing fast!!