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arcura · Aug 16, 2009, 10:19 PM

sndbay,
What you posted is true.
But...
It does not change the fact that Jesus tells us the we must obey the Ten Commandments, plus the 2 Great Commandments which covers them all.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay · Aug 17, 2009, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
What you posted is true.
But....
It does not change the fact that Jesus tells us the we must obey the Ten Commandments, plus the 2 Great Commandments which covers them all.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, I have posted many time on this thread what scripture tells us of the law. And I will say it again, we are not justified by the law. DO NOT make void the word of God by saying Christ changed the law.. Christ did not change it. The law is the schoolmaster that brings individual unto Christ. It teaches how to be righteousness, and how to walk as Christ walked. We are to follow HIS footsteps, by walking as HE walked.

Romans 3:23-24 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

However we must establish the law? YES YES YES
Refer:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Hear the Word of God = Christ Those individuals that consider themselves sinner, and do sin, are told by the law that they have committed sin. They are under the law as sinners of the law. REFER:

Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

Those who are called and have answered the calling, are those individual that walk in the spirit. BEGOTTEN AGAIN.. They have been baptized, buried and dead in Christ. The body is then dead to sin, they have put on Christ. They live to be all God created them to be in HIS likeness. A conscience that is good towards doing the will of God. They have HIS hand of power over them which dwells in righteousness to led them.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

No bondage to sin, set free in liberty of love to do the will of God as HIS servant would be in godliness.

sndbay · Aug 17, 2009, 07:04 AM

Remember this is the new covenant

Hebrew 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them

The promise to us

Hebrews 10:17-18 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more
Offering for sin.

However when we answer to this liberty of grace with a circumcised heart.

Hebrews 10:19-20 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh

Confessed to follow One Lord in Christ as the shepherd and Bishop of our souls

Hebrews 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God

Let us hold stedfast in truth, in ONE Faith

Hebrew 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

The One Baptism that can wash us and gift us with the good conscience toward God and bury us with Christ, putting on Christ to dwell in us. Dead to sin!

Because it is written: those that are of works of sin (do evil, do insult God) and under the curse of those sins (live in darkness), are there because they did not continue in all things that are written in the law. (Law of Faith + Law of sin)

Gal 3:10-11 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Before Faith comes, before confessed love of Christ in One Lord, before baptism is established by the individual confess faith in Christ, and does accomplished the helping hand of God REFER:

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin

Our minds are to obey the law of Faith, and our body is to obey the law of sin. Keeping us in godliness and walking in the spirit of life. That is why God writes it into our hearts and minds, Remember this is the new covenant!

revdrgade · Aug 17, 2009, 03:44 PM

450donn,

You are both right.

In Mt. 5 Jesus is teaching the Law. After all, He was "born under the Law"

Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.
NIV

The Kingdom of Grace was not established until Jesus fulfilled the Law on the cross when He said, "It is finished". At that time the Law was completely fulfilled by Him , in contrast to Adam and all his descendants except the "second Adam" Who was born of God.

The Law which was given on Mt. Sinai was given to show sin and never to be construed as a way of salvation... unless , of course, a person kept every part perfectly, without fail, as Jesus told the disciples in Mt. 5 :20
20 "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. "
NIV

The Law was meant to bring death to all who would claim to be righteous enough to please God. If you look up the place where God gave the Law, it was just after the people said something to Moses to the effect of "Just tell us what God wants us to do, and we'll do it" .
The Commandments were the only laws written/engraven on stone. It's ministry was death; it brought condemnation.
2 Co 3:7-11
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone , came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
NIV

We are now dead to the Law. That is, it can't condemn those who have died and risen in Christ. It is still holy. It still shows the will of God. But we, who walk by the Spirit of God should not allow it to condemn us:
Ro 8:1-4
8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
NIV

I have found for myself that it seems easier to live under the Law than live according to the Spirit. The Law deals with "outward" things, acts of goodness that we can boast about at least to ourselves. Walking by the Spirit takes close and constant contact with God all day long, every day. I believe this is why most who seek to be in the Kingdom of God try to sneak the Law back into their religion:
Gal 3:1-5
3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing — if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
NIV

Maggie 3 · Aug 17, 2009, 08:19 PM

The law shows us we are all sinners, so we run to Jesus the saver.

Maggie 3

arcura · Aug 17, 2009, 09:36 PM

sndbay,
I agree and with Maggie 3.
We are justified by grace but we are still expected to obey the law as best we can
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Wondergirl · Aug 17, 2009, 09:45 PM

My minister father always like to remind us that the Law is an SOS (Shows Our Sin) and the Gospel is another SOS (Shows Our Savior).

arcura · Aug 17, 2009, 10:25 PM

Wondergirl,
You father is a wise man.
Fred

sndbay · Aug 18, 2009, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
I agree and with Maggie 3.
We are justified by grace but we are still expected to obey the law as best we can
Peace and kindness,
Fred

To serve the Lord is to obey HIM and do HIS will..

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin

sndbay · Aug 18, 2009, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Maggie 3

The law shows us we are all sinners, so we run to Jesus the saver.

Maggie 3

Scripture confirms this Maggie

Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

so

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Maggie 3 · Aug 18, 2009, 06:26 PM

Thank you sndbay for showing us the scriptures.

Blessings, Maggie 3

arcura · Aug 18, 2009, 10:03 PM

sndbay
Right you are again.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay · Aug 19, 2009, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay
Right you are again.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Originally Posted by Maggie 3

Thank you sndbay for showing us the scriptures.

Blessings, Maggie 3

in Christ is where the truth is found. It is HIS Word I offer for full assurance, and in praise of HIS glory.

~ in the light of HIS path Peace and Love to you both

arcura · Aug 19, 2009, 10:18 PM

sndbay,
Very good!
Fred

classyT · Nov 9, 2011, 08:52 AM

I resurrected this thread. Ha ha.

The Apostle Paul calls the law that was written on stones ( HINT: the 10 commandments were written on stone) the ministry of death. Did you get that? The ministry of DEATH! Because that is all it CAN produce. He also says clearly Christians are not under the law AND that the STRENGTH of sin is the Law. My goodness, that is a HUGE statement. Paul would be run out of some of our Churches today with such a radical statement.

We also read that Paul wrote that where sin abounded, GRACE much MORE aboundS ( present tense). Now, does that mean we can sin up a storm and grace will cover it. Yeah! BUT... Paul wasn't finished... he also wrote... God forbid we live like that because it isn't Grace living. He told us that sin would NOT have dominion over us because we are NOT under the law but under Grace. Why doesn't sin have dominion over us? Because we are following the law? NOOOO! Because we are under GRACE.

Paul was clear. If we continue to sin, sin, sin after we are saved it is because we are putting ourselves back UNDER the law. We are trying to get righteousness by being good and by doing right. However we KNOW this doesn't work, it never worked. The law was given to show us just how pathetic we really ARE before a Holy God. BUT if one is enjoying and believing daily, he is under the GRACE of God then right believing will bring about right living. And we won't be able to take credit for any of it. It is the gift of righteousness freely given to us because of the cross, because of HIS wonderful grace. We are called believers... let's start believing!

It is time Christians understood the difference between the Law, which demands righteousness and Grace which supplies righteousness to man.

One last time... the STRENGTH of sin is the LAW!! This is huge and Paul preached it 2000 years ago. Believing right produces right living! When are we going to get this truth. I'm just NOW starting to understand...

dwashbur · Nov 10, 2011, 11:06 AM

What does it mean when we say Jesus fulfilled the Law? Well, the law is about awareness of sin and finding forgiveness. When Jesus died and rose, he completely paid the price for sin that the sacrifices of the Law foreshadowed. There's no more need for the sacrificial system, and no more need to be wondering if every sin has been covered by a sacrifice. Thus, both the purpose and the price of the Law have been fulfilled. This is why we are no longer "under" the Law. We don't need to fear the Law's curse, because grace abounds. Jesus has fulfilled the Law; hence, it has no more effect. Putting ourselves back under the Law after experiencing the fullness of God's grace is a bit like being cured of smallpox and then re-injecting ourselves with it because we miss the fever keeping us warm.