[excon]

More to the point, is it ethical and respectful for a person like me, openly a non-christian, so come to these forums and stick my foot in on a faith that I obviously disagree with at least on some level,

Hello again, C:

Sure it is. I do it all the time. The MORE you disagree, the livelier the debate - unless you disagree disagreeably.

excon

[arcura]

Athos,
I do agree with most of those who have answered here so far.
But I disagree with those who come here just be trouble makers.
However, stirring a boiling pot can keep the contents from burning or scorching so it is sometimes necessary.
Simmer awhile on that thought.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

[ScottGem]

i personally, in my own honest opinion, think that maybe the mods should disable the 'rate' button for the religeon boards. there are just too many confliction veiws and OPINIONS, and people are getting reddies for disagreeing, and that is against the rules is it not?

I disagree. The guidelines for using the Comments feature are such that negative comments should ONLY be used to correct a factually incorrect post. Therefore it should not be used for matters of opinion. For example, if someone were to post a totally inaccurate biblical quote, it would be appropriate to give a negative comment correcting the quote. But if someone expressed their interpretation of a biblical quote, a negative comment would not be appropriate.

Please feel free to report negative comments that you feel are inappropriate. But if the comments feature is used correctly, then there is no reason to remove it.

[simoneaugie]

There are Christians who express their opinions in an informative and thoughtful way. They teach me things.Then there are those who are uh, rigid? They are sticking to their narrow path and that's okay as long as they do not bash or attempt to control with their version of the truth.

I can't remember who said it or when, (really helpful, I know) but on this site, that non-Christians need to stay off the Christian board because they are "only there to stir up trouble."

So, being Pagan, I've stayed away. There is plenty of Christian judgement and control elsewhere. Political correctness should have its own board too, just so I could avoid some of it.

[Athos]

I disagree. The guidelines for using the Comments feature are such that negative comments should ONLY be used to correct a factually incorrect post. Therefore it should not be used for matters of opinion. For example, if someone were to post a totally inaccurate biblical quote, it would be appropriate to give a negative comment correcting the quote. But if someone expressed their interpretation of a biblical quote, a negative comment would not be appropriate.

Please feel free to report negative comments that you feel are inappropriate. But if the comments feature is used correctly, then there is no reason to remove it.

Scottgem, just reading some of the replies here should tell you that this section of AMHD needs revision.

First, the box invites a person to RATE.
Second, when the rate box is clicked, it changes to ACCURACY.
Third, when that is submitted, it changes again to AGREE or DISAGREE.
Thus, there are three different meanings for one action.

Finally, in case a person wasn't confused enough, the brand-new issue of "reddies" and "greenies" comes up!

In your post above, the idea of a "rating" has been changed once again to the idea of "fact checking" - related, but not identical.

(I still don't know the purpose of "balancer" or who invented that, but I've only been here two years or so.)

Why don't you (not you personally, the owners) just say what you mean?

[JoeCanada76]

i personally, in my own honest opinion, think that maybe the mods should disable the 'rate' button for the religeon boards. there are just too many confliction veiws and OPINIONS, and people are getting reddies for disagreeing, and that is against the rules is it not?

I actually agree here. I think that the rating options should be disabled for the religion boards.

Most people give reddies out of spite because they do not agree with certain scriptures or how it is interpreted. Religion is a whole new ball game can not sit there and state this is accurate or not, because it all depends on the persons take and belief and certain views on each. With the bible it is open to discussion. Can not say fact or fiction because a lot of religion has to do with faith.

I AGREE. Disable the rating system for religion boards because usually these boards get so nasty and rude and people use that rating function more of a revenge reddy system then anything else.

[Fr_Chuck]

But at the end of the day, there can not be hatred posts, lets say purely anti mormon, or anti catholic, such as calling one of both demons of the anti christ.

Or making fun of the faith,

Also if there is a serious question about beliefs in the christian faith, a post going against christian teachings would not be allowed any more than a post in the Muslim section filled with hate about terrorists. Or a post in the plumbing section attacking the use of plumbing.
If a poster comes to the Christian section wanting a answer from Christians on a teaching, a post answering that which merely says Christianty is false would never be allowed

Answers should be from a christian perspective, those asking questions need not be christian.

Debates need to be on the discussion groups

[JoeCanada76]

But at the end of the day, there can not be hatred posts, lets say purely anti mormon, or anti catholic, such as calling one of both demons of the anti christ.

Or making fun of the faith,

Also if there is a serious question about beliefs in the christian faith, a post going against christian teachings would not be allowed any more than a post in the Muslim section filled with hate about terrorists. Or a post in the plumbing section attacking the use of plumbing.
If a poster comes to the Christian section wanting a answer from Christians on a teaching, a post answering that which merely says Christianty is false would never be allowed

answers should be from a christian perspective, those asking questions need not be christian.

debates need to be on the discussion groups

With all do respect. There are many Christians that have different perspectives and different ideas and different thoughts and just because that is the case does not make one better then the other. Although that comes out on the boards very much. There is a lot of nastiness that happens because Christians can not agree with other Christians.

Time and Time again, a question that anybody has about religion and Christianity has turned into big debates and discussions on pretty much every single thread. People are getting tired of it. It should not be happening but does.

[ScottGem]

Scottgem, just reading some of the replies here should tell you that this section of AMHD needs revision.

First, I do agree with you that there can be some confusion with the Rating feature. Especially the change from accuracy to agreement. I've advocated changes to this.

But, its not as bad as you paint it. Yes, a member is asked to "Rate This Answer". When they choose to do so, they are presented with a choice to rate it according to accuracy. And they are required to explain their rating. I really don't see much of a problem with that. The real problem occurs when the rating is posted and it turns to agree or disagree. But even that has a place because members can reinforce an answer by adding a comment that it is accurate.

The balancer idea came because a negative comment does affect the poster's reputation points so having both a negative and positive comment, balances out. Personally I feel the reputation points are ridiculous, but that's the way the system works. Remember that we use a BBS system developed by other people and, though we have a lot of capability to customize, we have to work within the framework of the system.

As to my post changing anything. I wrote the guidelines for using this feature over three years ago (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forum-...nes-24951.html) so nothing has changed.

I will also point out that while you criticize the way the feature currently works, you make no suggestions on how to improve it. The admins and Mods of this site are constantly tweaking things to make this site work better. We welcome suggestions to improve this site (see the Feedback forum). But unless you have ideas on how to improve the features, being critical doesn't help things.

I will also point out that this is primarily a Q&A site. This forum, as well as the other forums under the Religion area are for asking questions about a religion, questions that can and should be answered according with factual information. We have a separate area for discussions. I am aware, of course, that threads are opened here that should be in the discussion area (so report them and they will be moved) or that the original question may lead to a discussion (i.e. heated debate or arguments) of the answers. That is the nature of the beast.

[JoeCanada76]

But at the end of the day, there can not be hatred posts, lets say purely anti mormon, or anti catholic, such as calling one of both demons of the anti christ.

Or making fun of the faith,

Also if there is a serious question about beliefs in the christian faith, a post going against christian teachings would not be allowed any more than a post in the Muslim section filled with hate about terrorists. Or a post in the plumbing section attacking the use of plumbing.
If a poster comes to the Christian section wanting a answer from Christians on a teaching, a post answering that which merely says Christianty is false would never be allowed

answers should be from a christian perspective, those asking questions need not be christian.

debates need to be on the discussion groups

Then when people start speaking up about this. It seems they get the long stick of the arm of the law because everything is turning into discussions and debates when it should not be. Everybody is getting sick of nothing getting done about it. It is really getting out of hand.

[450donn]

I disagree. The guidelines for using the Comments feature are such that negative comments should ONLY be used to correct a factually incorrect post. Therefore it should not be used for matters of opinion. For example, if someone were to post a totally inaccurate biblical quote, it would be appropriate to give a negative comment correcting the quote. But if someone expressed their interpretation of a biblical quote, a negative comment would not be appropriate.

Please feel free to report negative comments that you feel are inappropriate. But if the comments feature is used correctly, then there is no reason to remove it.

And therein lies the problem Scott. The rules/guidelines for the proper use of the rating system are so berried that it is nearly impossible for the average newby to find them. So why not place the rules as a sticky at the top of each forum?

[Fr_Chuck]

In general it is normally 2 or 3 people, one or two so called christian, and one or two non christians, or christians with other beliefs, that pick each others posts apart, then cut and paste ( why does anyone need to even do that) each line and respond a answer to each iine..

And then they repost and repost their same info time and time again.

This is how it is and has been on answer sites and unless you put everyone on a moderated status, really little to do.

Most merely post in my opinion to cause trouble, but you can't prove it

And almost the only time these threads get reported is when the same 3 or 4 people just keep reporting each other.

Normally most christian and to be honest most threads in many subjects all go down hill after the 2nd or 3rd page.
Since they turn from question and ansewrs to discussions.

[450donn]

First, I do agree with you that there can be some confusion with the Rating feature. Especially the change from accuracy to agreement. I've advocated changes to this.

But, its not as bad as you paint it. Yes, a member is asked to "Rate This Answer". When they choose to do so, they are presented with a choice to rate it according to accuracy. And they are required to explain their rating. I really don't see much of a problem with that. The real problem occurs when the rating is posted and it turns to agree or disagree. But even that has a place because members can reinforce an answer by adding a comment that it is accurate.

.

Have to totally disagree with you again Scott. I personally have had replies deleted for simply pointing out to an "expert' who should know better, their incorrect use of the rating system. It gets really tiresome to point out errors to the "protected" people and have your posts disappear. I have also had "experts" make false accusations toward me personally with no recourse because it was a FALSE use of the rating system, so it cannot be deleted or removed. Everybody needs to be held to the same standards with regards to the use of the rating system, not just us regular folks!

[Fr_Chuck]

To be honest, this thread is in the wrong place, since it is now a discussion thread, not a question and answer about christian issues.

[JoeCanada76]

Maybe a moderator should take over that is how do I say neutral. Maybe more then one moderator in those areas are needed.?

As Fr. Chuck said this website is not the only website that has major issues and problems with the religion or christianity forum. It is a lot of question websites that all have the same issues.

[DrJ]

This forum, as well as the other forums under the Religion area are for asking questions about a religion, questions that can and should be answered according with factual information.

I think herein lies the problem. Yes, there are a few questions that are asked that can be answered with FACTUAL information on a Religious board. But, for the most part, there are no factual answers that can be given. It all comes down to interpretation.

So when someone gives THEIR interpretation, another comes along to give theirs... then another.. and another.. then they each have to try to explain or "prove" their interpretation to be the correct one. And we end up with a dozen pages of babble with usually nothing accomplished.

Unfortunately, similar to what Scott had said, we can all complain but who has any suggestions? I personally believe that, try as we might, the human race has not been able to solve this situation in thousands of years and I don't think we stand a chance of solving it ourselves.

Regardless, this is the way it is. This is the way it has to be. All we can do is do our VERY best to keep our emotions low, our intelligence high, and our minds open.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Easier said than done... but doable.

[Athos]

I will also point out that while you criticize the way the feature currently works, you make no suggestions on how to improve it.

I will also point out that this is primarily a Q&A site. This forum, as well as the other forums under the Religion area are for asking questions about a religion, questions that can and should be answered according with factual information. We have a separate area for discussions. I am aware, of course, that threads are opened here that should be in the discussion area (so report them and they will be moved) or that the original question may lead to a discussion (i.e. heated debate or arguments) of the answers. That is the nature of the beast.

But I did make a suggestion - eliminate the rating thing on the Christianity board. It is found in my agreement to Jenniepepsi's original idea on page 1. (I guess you missed it).

As to your second point, the idea that questions do not, or should not, lead to discussion (on the same page) is strange, indeed. All answers, especially on a religion board, need to be supported and/or defended. Discussion is how this is done. Religion, per se, can never be answered with factual information since its very core is rooted in faith, not facts. This applies to ALL religions. I grant you some questions/answers can be factual - In what country is the Vatican located? But the essence of religion is not fact-based.

[Tj3]

I agree, sadly the same people abuse the system over and over again with no repercussions.

Agreed.

[Tj3]

Maybe a moderator should take over that is how do I say neutral. Maybe more then one moderator in those areas are needed.?

Good suggestions.

As Fr. Chuck said this website is not the only website that has major issues and problems with the religion or christianity forum. It is a lot of question websites that all have the same issues.

There are also many that do not. The difference from what I have seen is fair and reasonable rules, and fair and consistent enforcement regardless of who the person is and regardless of whether the person has a friend on staff or not.

[Athos]

Also if there is a serious question about beliefs in the christian faith, a post going against christian teachings would not be allowed.

answers should be from a christian perspective, those asking questions need not be christian.

I believe you have a serious misunderstanding of what your role as a moderator is here.

Just which Christian teachings would you allow? There are many different teachings. In any case, it is not your role to arbitrate among Christian teachings. This is so fundamental for a moderator, I'm surprised it needs to be said.

And what is a Christian perspective? Yours? Ok, define it so we all know what we're dealing with.

You say that "those ASKING [my emphasis] questions need not be Christian". The clear implication is that those ANSWERING questions MUST be Christian! Clearly a violation of the rules and what other experts have said in this thread.

If you have an agenda as a moderator, it should be clearly stated. I think your post does just that, inadvertently. If nothing else is achieved by this thread, your stated position in this thread will be noted, I hope, by those in authority here.

This does help explain why my early posts were deleted by you without explanation. And when I asked, you replied in a message to me that you had SUSPICIONS!! I was banned/warned because of your SUSPICIONS, not anything I had actually DONE or WRITTEN.