[Tj3]

Tom, stop hijacking the thread.

Stop posting attacks on others.

Now can we get back on topic please?

Please do

[jenniepepsi]

Once again, I will answer with the fact that we can argue ALL our lives, and still not be any closer to a real answer, nor an understanding of each other. So why do we even TRY to have these conversations?

Seriously, if people can't be polite, and accepting and understanding of other peoples opinions and beliefs on this board, STAY OUT OF IT>

[Tj3]

once again, i will answer with the fact that we can argue ALL our lives, and still not be any closer to a real answer, nor an understanding of eachother. so why do we even TRY to have these conversations?

seriously, if people can't be polite, and accepting and understanding of other peoples opinions and beliefs on this board, STAY OUT OF IT>

Agreed that people should respect opinions of others, and be respectful and polite.

We should not insist that people "accept" the beliefs of others. That by definition would not be respecting their right to hold differing opinions.

[Wondergirl]

We've been through that before. There is overwhelming evidence that it is in fact the word of God, but I guess that I would ask why, if you so dislike Christianity, do you post in the Christianity area (no answer required - rhetorical question).

"It is in fact ONE'S INTERPRETATION OF the Word of God." And anyone may post on the Christianity board.

[Tj3]

"It is in fact ONE'S INTERPRETATION OF the Word of God." And anyone may post on the Christianity board.

1) Actually, no. I don't know if you missed what was being discussed, but it whether there is evidence for the truth of the Bible being God's word. Such evidence from from internal sources, external sources, from Christians, from non-believers, and from those opposed to Christianity. So no, it is not a matter of interpretation.

2) Second, yes, anyone may post - I was just pondering why a person who hates Christianity would want to.

[Wondergirl]

1) Actually, no. I don't know if you missed what was being discussed, but it whether there is evidence for the truth of the Bible being God's word. Such evidence from from internal sources, external sources, from Christians, from non-believers, and from those opposed to Christianity. So no, it is not a matter of interpretation.

So where do those people get their information, and how?

2) I was just pondering why a person who hates Christianity would want to.

She doesn't.

[Tj3]

So where do those people get their information, and how?

You need to study the historic record, ancient documents, speak to historians and archeologists, and to experts in the Bible.

She doesn't.

Right. :D :p

[Wondergirl]

You need to study the historic record, ancient documents, speak to historians and archeologists, and to experts in the Bible.

Oh, those guys. Ok. Sure.

Right.

And you are doing what to change her mind?

[Tj3]

Oh, those guys. Ok. Sure.

Right - experts.

And you are doing what to change her mind?

I am not trying to change her mind. I don't try to change anyone's mind. All I can do is present the facts. Whether one's mind is changed depends more upon whether they are open to the facts or not.

BTW, it appears that you are following her lead in hijacking the thread.

Shall we get back on topic?

[adam7gur]

What do Christians consider sin though?

My son threw a rock at a window when he was 6, he knew it was wrong, he knew he shouldn't do it, he did it anyway. Does that mean he's now accountable in God's eyes?

I don't buy it.

This is the problem I have with the bible. If it really was the book of God then wouldn't these things be clear? Instead we're left to interpret what the book means. We all know what happens when you interpret something, it becomes flawed, because man is flawed.

There is not clear writing on when a child is no longer free from sin. There is no age when we say, okay, you now know right from wrong, now you either accept God, follow his way or you're going to hell.

Is it left up to us to determine? I thought the bible told us everything, every aspect of how to live our lives and find eternity with him. This seems to be a grey area.

You as your son's mother,how did you feel about your son throwing a rock at a window?
Deffinetely it did not make you happy,BUT did you throw your son out of your house because he did so?Of course not!
We are humans and we have at least this kind of righteousness even though we all are twisted in our ways.Don't you think our Father has at least this amount of righteousness also?
Things that we do not see in the Bible are written in nature.Isn't nature teaching us as Paul said?
We should be careful with the Bible because many times we idolize the Word of God and God hates it!
God's Word, the Bible is Spirit and not paper and ink!

[arcura]

adam7gur,
Good answer.
Fred

[NeedKarma]

homesell, please stop spamming the board. Thank you.

[classyT]

Well, I think we should welcome anyone to answer as long as they state up front they are NOT Christian. However I could be wrong.

I don't have issues with this personally. I DO have issues with Hijackers and troublemakers but I like other views. I think it is an opportunity to witness.

[Tj3]

Well, I think we should welcome anyone to answer as long as they state up front they are NOT Christian. However I could be wrong.

I don't have issues with this personally. I DO have issues with Hijackers and troublemakers but I like other views. I think it is an opportunity to witness.

Agreed. I would personally welcome anyone of any belief, but I think that they if come to the Christianity forums, they must at least be respectful of Christians. If they come on here because they hate Christians and or Christianity and are just here to disrupt the threads, then they'd be best to go elsewhere, because those who behave in that manner are not listening to what is being said, and they impair the rights of others to engage in the discussion.

[galveston]

This same question has to be applied to more than just one-week old babies. What about the indigenous people of southern Africa?

Yes, yes.. missionaries have been sent out there to spread the Word but that wasn't always the case. There have been millions that have lived their entire life without ever having the chance to hear about Jesus Christ. They have certainly sinned but are likely better people than you or I.

Do they go to Hell?

Rom 1:20-21
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(KJV)

All creation points to the Creator, and mankind has a mind that is capable of reasoning. If he will use that capability, it will lead him to God.

After all, how did Abraham come to know God? He lived in an idolaterous society, and yet he became the "father of the faithful".

[galveston]

I have a counter question for Athos.

Are you trying to justify your own unbelief by posing what you see as an unanswerable question?

[DrJ]

Rom 1:20-21
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(KJV)

All creation points to the Creator, and mankind has a mind that is capable of reasoning. If he will use that capability, it will lead him to God.

After all, how did Abraham come to know God? He lived in an idolaterous society, and yet he became the "father of the faithful".

I know many people who believe in the same God that you do based on that one line right there. However, since they don't believe in Him the same way a "Christian" does, they are damned?

Luckily Abraham lived in the time that he did... because of that, he is saved. Had he lived in today's world, he may still follow the beliefs of his ancestors that the Messiah is yet to come and would not be saved.

Same God of all creation... yet a different eternal life.


[side note]
I don't think anyone's personal beliefs should have ANYTHING to do with where or how they post. That is simply absurd.
[/side note]

Wait no there's more... I should add the anyone coming here attempting to pose something as FACT, should back that up with indisputable proof that such a thing is FACT. For example, despite what my beliefs, your beliefs, or ANYONE'S beliefs are, there simply is no PROOF that the Bible is the Word of God. To claim such a thing, discredits anything else you have to say.

Enough with the childish antics and finger pointing. Can we carry on with a mature discussion on this matter? Unfortunately, unlike other areas of this board, there is no simple answer. It requires discussion to allow people reading/responding to decide for themselves.

[Alty]

You as your son's mother,how did you feel about your son throwing a rock at a window?
Deffinetely it did not make you happy,BUT did you throw your son out of your house because he did so?Of course not!
We are humans and we have at least this kind of righteousness even though we all are twisted in our ways.Don't you think our Father has at least this amount of righteousness also?
Things that we do not see in the Bible are written in nature.Isn't nature teaching us as Paul said?
We should be carefull with the Bible because many times we idolize the Word of God and God hates it!
God's Word, the Bible is Spirit and not paper and ink!

Well in that case God doesn't need us to come to him, because we're all his children and no matter what we do he would never deny us the gift of heaven.

You're right. There's nothing that my son could do that would make me abandon him, even if he turned his back on me. So using your theory, all people will go to heaven, whether they are Christian or not.

I couldn't agree more. :)

[galveston]

John 14:1
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
(KJV)
Jesus was talking to Jews who believed in God

James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(KJV)

Mere belief in God is no better than the devils do.


I Jn 5:10
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
(KJV)

Gal 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(KJV)

Study of the Law given in the OT will bring one to the knowlege of Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

[Tj3]

There's nothing that my son could do that would make me abandon him, even if he turned his back on me. So using your theory, all people will go to heaven, whether they are Christian or not.

So, if your son was an adult, and you wanted him to move in with you, ylou'd force him to do so whether he wanted to or not?

Go never abandoned us. He came to earth in the flesh so that we could be saved from our sins, and that we would have the opportunity to spend eternity with Him. But most will reject that offer and choose to go to hell, thus condemning themselves. He makes a free offer, but does not force us against our will.

Unfortunately the minority go to heaven.