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Hopeless Mom · Jul 6, 2009, 05:52 AM

Thank the good lord, my son is finally old enough to live on his own and keep a roof over his headl. The problem, unfortunately, is that he has literally cast me aside and the pain is excruciating.

A single mom, I had no financial support from my ex-husband, his father, from the day he was born. We separated while I was pregnant. When my son reached around 6 years old, his father totally abandoned. He ducked the courts, disappeared and resurfaced after I'd done all the heavy lifting to raise him. My son was ADHD, asthmatic, oppositional defiant, a cutter, a bully and more. He went to a special school and had repeated therapy. Raising him was a nightmare, but for about 3 years after he dropped out of college, the days of pleasantry outnumbered the days of chaos.

His father, who resurfaced when my son was 18, covered up his wrongdoing by blaming me for his not being there. My son, who desperately wanted a father, bought into it. He repeatedly flaunted his father's wealth at me and put me down for "behaving" like a victim. He deplores the struggles that kept a roof over his head all those years, with zero appreciation for any efforts that I made on his behalf.

After a rough start, he's managed to hold a job and he has a girlfriend. But he's become absolutely horrid to me. He sees a psychiatrist who is supposed to be a family specialist but the man confided in me, after my son created a total rift between us, that the same thing happened to him... twice. I have little hope that a psychiatrist who can't keep his own family together, could possible have the key to help mine. We have no discussion. After successive phone calls that he refused to return, I wrote to him and he wrote back.

I feel that my button-pushing son now has a girlfriend that he is currently using as a host to his parasitic ways. I see him as a parasite because neither "loving" nor "appreciation" are in his portfolio of behaviors, only manipulating and taking what he wants.

She was bullied by her last boyfriend. He actually hit her before she recognized she was dealing with a bully. She is unable to see my son as the bully he is, and I am concerned about how he behaves toward her. She does his bidding and will not speak with me.

He did something very nasty to a friend of mine. When I asked him to apologize, he screamed that it was all my fault and slammed down the phone. He subsequently texted me that he won't listen to anything I have to say, not by email, text, voicemail or letter. He didn't call for my birthday, the holidays, mother's day... nothing. It's been 10 months.

I asked him to go with me for family counseling and his response was that I am a manic depressed person, and that the "condition" by which he will "consider" going for 1 family session is if I go for 3 sessions with a Psychiatrist.

He is correct on one score, I have had extreme depression over this circumstance and am attempting to deal with it as I can. I find it an absolute outrage that my son set a "condition" for what should be "unconditional" love. It's one thing to ask someone to do something you feel is in their best interest. It's very different to "demand" they do something in order to show them any love.

I know he is deliberately setting an obstacle that can't be met because whether I see a therapist for myself is my business, not his and because he has been so untrustworthy- I can not share anything medical about myself with him.

His girlfriend helps share expenses for the apartment and their lifestyle. Before her, his father gave him money for his apartment because I would not provide financial support for him to leave home unless he went to school. I felt he needed to be able to stand up on his own and be independent in order to make good decisions for his life. His ability to mooch off others enables him to create pseudo independence as well as this agonizingly painful, grotesque separation.

I have no interest in interferring with their life. I would simply like to feel that my son cares. He has no idea whether I am alive or dead. My company abruptly closed recently and he didn't even call for a kind word of support. He has to know it happened. It was a well known firm and we're in the same industry, in the same town... in fact, when he moved out, he rented an apartment only about 8 blocks away from me.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd be forever grateful.

flossie · Jul 6, 2009, 06:41 AM

Hello Mom,

I am not a mental health practitioner but I have had some personal experience.

I can hear your pain. Your son is 28 yrs old, an adult, you can't "make" him do anything. What your son does now is all HIS doing, you know that, he won't change his ways until he is ready to which may or may not happen. You've done everything you could for him as he was growing up and some day he will realize that but for now what you need to do now is make a life for yourself. Find a counsellor YOU can talk to and deal with the issues that are affecting you and only you.
I learned a long time ago that the only person responsible for your own happiness is you.

Good luck

Jake2008 · Jul 6, 2009, 07:19 AM

I'm sorry this has happened to you Flossie, you are not alone having an estranged adult son.

He could be treating you this way because he doesn't want to face the truth himself. To give you even an inch, would open a door that may require him to change his attitude toward you, and he doesn't want to.

He has his life the way he wants it; his needs are being met all the way around. You know the type of person he is- he cannot get anything from you that he needs right now, so he simply won't bother.

It is hard to realize with our adult children, that they are in control of their lives, and may never allow for reconcilliation. I think that over time, you just have to look at him more of an adult on his own, rather than a son with an unhealthy relationship with you. It may never happen that there will be peace with him. You cannot change him, and you can't change the past, or shape the future.

It is his own limitations that prevent a relationship with you. He may not understand himself why he has this shortcoming. To him, his own understanding of you is the correct one, and again, that is not something you can change.

You know the truth because you raised him, and watched him grow, and become an independent adult. All that time, agony, blood sweat and tears, don't always result in gratitude, or even common courtesy, as you're seeing now. He shows you no respect, and even if he had serious differences of opinion with you, he shows a lack of maturity in dealing with his concerns appropriately.

My best advice to you is to leave the ball in his court, and at the same time set some boundaries. Separate him, from living your life. Don't waste any more time trying to convince him to establish a relationship with you. And don't give in to his demands that you seek help before he'll consider counselling. That's not the way it works.

You have offered all you can offer. You've done all you can do. The truth is on your side, and your job is done. No need for explanations or corrections, what's done is done.

Live your life! He's made his own way, and now you have to make yours. Your life was not meant for you to be a parent to a 28 year old. Let him live his life, and you get out there and enjoy yours to the fullest. Should he come around in the future, keep yourself at arms length, enjoy the good he has to offer, and allow him to deal with the problems in his own life. They are his problems now, not yours.

jenniepepsi · Jul 6, 2009, 12:50 PM

I agree... as hard as it may be as a mom... (and I am a mom, and I can't even fathom the pain you must be feeling) you are going to have to let him make his own choices... keep your doors open to him... and hopefully he will grow up and come around again...

Good luck hon, and you are in my prayers.

twinkiedooter · Jul 6, 2009, 08:21 PM

You are the one that has to learn how to cut the apron strings. He seems to have done this himself. You need to now cut your apron strings to him.

He's an adult living elsewhere with another person. It's hard for you to handle being alone and not having to constantly take care of him and put up with his abuse. I guess your life now seems empty without all that chaos he caused for all those years that you had to endure it.

Get out and see your friends, go places even if it's alone, get a dog for a companion, in other words start living YOUR life now instead of constantly hovering over your little darling. He grew up when you weren't looking. As far as father not giving a dime that's your fault if you let him skate without paying child support. Won't go there but sonny obviously is holding this against you in his own warped way. Sorry about that but you should have gone after it but it's way too late now to even bother with.

If your son doesn't remember your birthday, mother's day, etc. just remember he thinks about you but he's off having no contact with you and that may be the way he wants it now. You can't force him to be with you or talk to you if he doesn't want to. Sometimes the harder you try and push a person the more stubborn he gets. Why are you pushing for a family counseling session? What do you think you will accomplish? Quite frankly, I think he's just plain tired of you running his life for him and being overly protective of him. Let him fall on his face a few times and grow up and hopefully see the folly of his ways.

Just remember you will always be his mother. That will never change - ever. He just needs some space to grow up and be a man on his own. He'll come back even if it takes 10 years. He'll come back and talk to you and visit you when he wants to. Just let him know you'll be there for him and don't push him into anything he does not want right now or you will be literally pushing him away with both hands.

Hopeless Mom · Jul 9, 2009, 04:49 AM

His father disappeared. Before he disappeared, the court awarded me $30 per week because he lied about his income. FThe man drove a Porsch, travelled the world and lived large. The cost of hiring a detective to go after facts about his income would cost me the money it took to keep a roof over my asthmatic, ADHD son's head. The man never even helped to pay the delivery bill for his child.

I had to live in the real world where my son needed food, clothing, medical attention, care and special education while I went on earning the money that gave him those things.

His father failed to pay the $30 per week and the cost of attorney's fees to go after him, and private detectives to find him in the first place, was prohibitive... and for no return. He hid all his money. He left his job and earned mostly cash and out of the country.

As to "my little darling", he hasn't been for several years. He was a difficult, oppositional/defiant youth who had ADHD and abandonment issues.

I'm not upset about my son being gone. It's a relief. I'm upset about him being horrid and unappreciative to me. There's a difference between leaving and hurling hatred. My son is hurling hatred. It is heartbreaking.

I have a dog. I have a life. Having a mean son who withholds caring is a sorrow there are no words to describe. I was never doting. I raised him to be independent. He doesn't simply forget my birthday, mother's day and the holidays. He deliberately refuses to acknowledge my existence. He is wretched to me. Before he did so, he wrote me telling me that he was doing so.

He told me that unless I buy things for him, what does he need me for. I am not important to him and he does not care if I live or die. Being gone is one thing. Being wretched to your parent is quite another.

I have a degenerating physical condition. These could be the last years of my life to be relatively healthy unless a medical miracle comes my way. I am living through physical pain along with having a tormenting son.

In 10 years he could "find" his way back. In 10 years, I could be crippled or gone.

flossie · Jul 9, 2009, 05:15 AM

You've said he is "wretched", he is not goingto change anytime soon, if at all.:(

You've done your best, you know it and I'm sure family and friends know it. That's all you can do.

I'm sorry for your pain and heartache. Be happy with who YOU are and the life YOU have, stop worrying about him and how he treats you as it will only drag you down and can have negative effect on your whole wellbeing. I wish there was more I could say. All the best to you:)

Jake2008 · Jul 9, 2009, 07:01 AM

It hurts to know that he is not capable of understanding how his actions affect you, and I would be very hurt as well.

Despite knowing that he has no plans to do even simple things like a mothers' day card, really does show a lack of connection between affect, and even simple acknowledgements. But even if he were to send a card or give you a call, I suspect that it would be out of duty and a sense of obligation, and he wouldn't mean it anyway. So either way, it would be meaningless.

It does not sound like he is truly capable of understanding emotion, and feeling any sort of emotional connection outside himself, and his needs. I imagine he would be quite demanding on the one hand of others, and give nothing, or very little in return. He just doesn't 'feel' it, doing that means nothing to him. And in his world, it's all about him anyway.

That being said, it isn't anything you have done that makes him this way, it is just the way he is. He will wear people out quickly in his life, when his relationships are good only as long as his needs are being met.

Not likely that he will change, this is the way he is. While you may hope in your heart of hearts that he will show a little more loving behaviour toward you, and an understanding of all you have done for him, it may never happen.

It would take so little for him to do, to show some appreciation. That he is the way he is as a 28 year old, that isn't likely to happen.

You have a good head on your shoulders, and you've gone above and beyond.

Parenting can be a really thankless job.

JoeCanada76 · Jul 9, 2009, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Hopeless Mom

Thank the good lord, my son is finally old enough to live on his own and keep a roof over his headl. The problem, unfortunately, is that he has literally cast me aside and the pain is excruciating.

A single mom, I had no financial support from my ex-husband, his father, from the day he was born. We separated while I was pregnant. When my son reached around 6 years old, his father totally abandoned. He ducked the courts, disappeared and resurfaced after I'd done all the heavy lifting to raise him. My son was ADHD, asthmatic, oppositional defiant, a cutter, a bully and more. He went to a special school and had repeated therapy. Raising him was a nightmare, but for about 3 years after he dropped out of college, the days of pleasantry outnumbered the days of chaos.

His father, who resurfaced when my son was 18, covered up his wrongdoing by blaming me for his not being there. My son, who desperately wanted a father, bought into it. He repeatedly flaunted his father's wealth at me and put me down for "behaving" like a victim. He deplores the struggles that kept a roof over his head all those years, with zero appreciation for any efforts that I made on his behalf.

After a rough start, he's managed to hold a job and he has a girlfriend. But he's become absolutely horrid to me. He sees a psychiatrist who is supposed to be a family specialist but the man confided in me, after my son created a total rift between us, that the same thing happened to him....twice. I have little hope that a psychiatrist who can't keep his own family together, could possible have the key to help mine. We have no discussion. After succesive phone calls that he refused to return, I wrote to him and he wrote back.

I feel that my button-pushing son now has a girlfriend that he is currently using as a host to his parasitic ways. I see him as a parasite because neither "loving" nor "appreciation" are in his portfolio of behaviors, only manipulating and taking what he wants.

She was bullied by her last boyfriend. He actually hit her before she recognized she was dealing with a bully. She is unable to see my son as the bully he is, and I am concerned about how he behaves toward her. She does his bidding and will not speak with me.

He did something very nasty to a friend of mine. When I asked him to apologize, he screamed that it was all my fault and slammed down the phone. He subsequently texted me that he won't listen to anything I have to say, not by email, text, voicemail or letter. He didn't call for my birthday, the holidays, mother's day....nothing. It's been 10 months.

I asked him to go with me for family counseling and his response was that I am a manic depressed person, and that the "condition" by which he will "consider" going for 1 family session is if I go for 3 sessions with a Psychiatrist.

He is correct on one score, I have had extreme depression over this circumstance and am attempting to deal with it as I can. I find it an absolute outrage that my son set a "condition" for what should be "unconditional" love. It's one thing to ask someone to do something you feel is in their best interest. It's very different to "demand" they do something in order to show them any love.

I know he is deliberately setting an obstacle that can't be met because whether I see a therapist for myself is my business, not his and because he has been so untrustworthy- I can not share anything medical about myself with him.

His girlfriend helps share expenses for the apartment and their lifestyle. Before her, his father gave him money for his apartment because I would not provide financial support for him to leave home unless he went to school. I felt he needed to be able to stand up on his own and be independent in order to make good decisions for his life. His ability to mooch off others enables him to create psuedo independance as well as this agonizingly painful, grotesque separation.

I have no interest in interferring with their life. I would simply like to feel that my son cares. He has no idea whether I am alive or dead. My company abruptly closed recently and he didn't even call for a kind word of support. He has to know it happened. It was a well known firm and we're in the same industry, in the same town....in fact, when he moved out, he rented an apartment only about 8 blocks away from me.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd be forever grateful.

I see abuse in your own words. Sorry but your not innocent in all of this. Your calling him a parasite. That is so low. He has cut the mommy strings and living his own life and your not excepting of it. You say it was hard raising him, but maybe just maybe it was hard for him too growing up. Always having problems with different things. Also not having a father. These things can negatively effect a growing man. It is up to him who he wants to be around and how he behaves. He is, his own person now. He has to learn about life and grow in his own way.

I honestly do not think you should wait for family counseling. I think you need to work on yourself and fix yourself up and get counseling on your own. Stop blaming others and please start living your own life for yourself. Not your son anymore. You think it is okay to meddle with your sons health and business yet, your not willing to share anything with him about you. It is your own business, but everything about your son is yours. I do not think so.

28 years old if I am correct. It is time for you to let go. There is always ALWAYS HOPE FOR RECONCILIATION LATER ON. Just do not push it on him or your going to infuriate him more and push him away more.

I think that you are more concerned about your own hurt and feelings here. That maybe he turned out the way he did and you blame yourself. The thing is LOVE YOUR SON, NO MATTER HOW HE BEHAVES. Does not mean you agree with his behavior but also let him to his own vices. Letting go is the best thing you can do right now.

Stop calling him a parasite. Get counseling for yourself. Do not be concerned about your son its his own life that he needs to take care of now.

His counselor or psychiatrist would actually know more about this experience. If he has had it in his own life. That would actually help him counsel better somebody else in the same situation. He was not acting professional by talking to you. He should not have been talking to you unless you were seeing him yourself.

Hopeless Mom · Jul 9, 2009, 07:43 AM

Flossie and Jake2008-

Thank you both so much for your input. I posed my question in order to see if there was something I was overlooking that I could do or say to him that could get through to him. I've done all I could think of. I just needed to know if someone had some revelation I had not considered.

I appreciate your taking the time to pass along your wisdom.

Many thanks!

flossie · Jul 9, 2009, 08:36 AM

I think you have wracked your brain long enough. Take a breather and enjoy life! It's way too short to waste on the negatives of life!

Hopeless Mom · Jul 10, 2009, 01:07 AM

To Jesushelper76-

I did not call my son a parasite. 1. I spoke of his behavior, 2. It's a term for his behavior that I used to perfect strangers that will never get back to him and that sums up the kind of connection to me that he has.

I didn't think, in this forum, that it made sense to explain his behaior by saying he is covert aggressive with borderline personality disorder or to go through long, drawn out examples of how it applies.

My son didn't cut the apron strings, he bombed them and the person who wore them with a nuclear weapon. There's a difference.

My son is my only family. Everyone else in my family died. My extended family, the few who are left, live all the way across the country and we haven't been connected since my childhood.

I don't dote on him. I don't expect him to share anything he doesn't want to with me, and I don't pry. He has always come to me when he needed help. I have always helped him when he asked.

He has never asked me if I needed his help and the few times that I have asked, he was scornful and mean. He belittles me for having a need and bullies me into backing down. He takes without giving.

His absence shows me how little caring he actually has for me. How totally void he is of any desire to help me if I were to need him. He won't respond to an email, a text, a voice mail. If I called for help, he wouldn't be there. Whenever he called for help, I was always there.

It is heartbreaking.

He expects me to welcome him with open arms when he gets tired of being hateful. How disrespectful and unappreciative. How insulting and indescent.

He has destroyed my trust by misusing the unconditional love I have for him. Setting a condition by which he will extend love to me is not acceptable behavior and by doing so, he is not entitiled to the information his bad act demands. His behavior is untrustworthy therefore I can no longer trust him.

I love my son. I would walk through the fire for him. I would lay down my life for him.

I am, nor do I expect to be, anything but his mother. My father had a mother. My mother had a mother. I had a mother. I loved and repected my parents throughout their lives, even though they and I did not see eye to eye in every instance.

I supported myself from the time I was 19. There were no apron strings tying me to my parents. But never once did it ever cross my mind that just because they were no longer supporting me, I could or should or would excuse myself from caring for or loving them.

My son has let me know that he doesn't care for me. He has specifically told me that because I'm not supporting him any longer, I mean nothing to him. He's broken my heart.

I have a fulfilling life. I have good friends and interesting work. If my son was absent from my life because he was across the country, it would not make a huge dent in my existense. I would miss him. But I would enjoy the other gifts I have.

The manner with which my son perpetuates this type of absence, however, is excruciating. It is hard for me to have a life of joy with this terrible pain.

danielnoahsmommy · Jul 10, 2009, 02:36 AM

I know you feel alone. I feel bad for that. Your son is an adult now and should learn that he must face the consequences of his actions. He is very hostile! If I was in your spot I would cut ties with him. He is creating more harm than good. Since you have so much going on in your life, work, friends etc. move on. Don't give in when he calls you for help. Maybe having one occasion when mommy does not come to a rescue will help him realize how poorly he treats you.

JoeCanada76 · Jul 10, 2009, 05:28 AM

You still have not addressed the issues that are there. You yourself need counseling? Are you doing this yet? Your son is your world but guess what he is 28 years old and his own man. Cutting the apron strings. It seems like your still in denial. You have said it is not of his business whether you seek out counsel or not yet you have talked to his psychiatrist and pretty much said this person is useless. I do not get that you do not understand that there are two sides to every story and your trying to get everybody to feel sorry for you including your son.

Please go for your own counseling and work out your personal issues and let go of your son. Continue to love him but let him to his own vices like I said before.

Everything I said in my previous post still stands. I am glad to hear you say you love your son, but time to let him go live his own life instead of being so desperate to have him by your side and forcing on him a relationship he does not want at this time.

Jake2008 · Jul 10, 2009, 07:11 AM

It is possible to have done everything humanly possible to raise a child to have the right morals and principles; teach all the lessons, live through the hard times without turning away, do everything possible to address needs, and still have a person turn out the way your son has.

Some adults with mental illness are needy all of their lives, to feed what they see as necessary for their survival. Some of those people know no other way than using people up, tossing them aside, and moving onto the next person in order to do that.

They don't make the distinction between mother/father/wife/neighbour/friend. They are all in the same kettle of fish, with no special status for any of them, unless they are the ones who, at the time, are needed.

Give and take isn't an option, it's all about take. There is no conscience that keeps checks and balances of behaviour in place, particularly bad behaviour. Their perceived survival depends on only them, special and unique, among a sea of possible 'givers' to keep feeding their needs.

It doesn't have to make sense because there are no cut and dried reasons, explanations, or treatment that can change who this person essentially is. You can modify behaviour, curb behaviour, teach appropriate coping skills etc. but it is not something that is internalized, or permanent. What you get is not the person you have tried to help, you get the same person who has decided that there is nothing in it for him to change, because it's a waste of his time, and does not suit his immediate needs, which is living day to day at the emotional expense of somebody else.

We tend to apply blame to either party, with nothing between. The truth is, with a son with mental illness, it takes far more blood sweat and tears, than with a person without mental health problems thrown in. For every 'normal' kid with a couple of visits to the doctor every year for normal childhood cuts, broken bones and infections, add a dozen more for the mentally disabled. More doctor visits, more testing, more prescriptions, more plans, more behaviour modifications, more modified discipline methods, special referrals for further assessment etc. etc. etc. It never ends.

And to that kind of effort by a good parent, you are no further ahead when all is said and done, except that he/she has survived their youth, has actually moved on, albeit at a later age, and is struggling with his own deamons now, and those people that are new to him, are also struggling to cope with him.

You learn to live your life never being able to say that your 28 year old is ready to be on his own, and is a well adjusted, normally functioning human being that you don't have to think twice about. Nor can you expect that his behaviour is temporary, because he's always been this way, and probably always will. He doesn't think he has any problems.

That being said, it isn't a matter, in my opinion, of cutting the apron strings. Having lived 28 years raising a child with mental illness, it is a matter of realizing that the apron strings had nothing to do with it. More likely it is letting go of even the most basic expectation; a card on mother's day, a kind word, any acknowledgement of the sacrifices made, even to the simplest of terms.

Any mother would be very hurt at not being remembered on Mothers Day, or her birthday. A mother who has had a sentence of 27 years with such a 'child' as described here, it would be devastating. The simplest, easiest act of kindness to acknowledge someone with a simple card, would have meant so much.

I think that the problem really is letting go, but not from the perspective that seems logical and practical to most people with adult children.

It is most likely that he will be back in your life, as his will fall apart on a regular basis in my opinion. I think it is a miracle in itself that you have raised him to be independent at all, and capable of living on his own. That in itself shows that you fostered him developing skills that he would need in the real world. Many would have given up.

Keep yourself focused on living your life, and not falling back into familiar patterns when and if, he does turn to you for help when others bail on him. He is capable on his own, of building another relationship with other people such as room-mates, etc. As he left your home with all that you taught him, is all that you can do, or provide or give.

Letting him live his life, regardless of his shortcomings or limitations, is the best gift you can give him.

Hopeless Mom · Jul 10, 2009, 07:29 AM

I do not want my son at my side. You are very incorrect. There's a difference between "cutting the apron strings" and abject cruelty toward a parent.

To withhold a kind word at the holidays, birthday good wishes or even a call on mother's day- especially to a parent who you know you are the only family for, and when you live 8 blocks away, is not cutting apron strings, it's cruel behavior.

"Cutting the apron strings" means not relying on your parents... not treating them in a horrible way. For him to tell me I am "useless" to him because I "no longer dish out money to support him" and so he will never speak to me again is mean.

There's a difference.

I never said my son was useless... HE said I was "useless" to him. Mature people don't deal with their loved ones this way. Even if you don't go along with another person's opinion, you don't treat them with cruelty.

I am not trying to win anybody's sympathy. I am trying to determine if anyone has some insight that I and my therapist may have overlooked.

And the reason I don't disclose to him that I see a therapist is that a. he has demanded I do so as a "condition" of loving me. Just as he is entitled to my UNconditional love, I am entitled to his.

I don't make conditions for my sons behavior. Requests and conditions are two very different things. Requests are how adults communicate. Conditions are demands and incorporate a threat. It's not okay to threaten your loved ones. I have never threatened to whithold my love from my son because he does or did not do what I asked.

That's his father's tactic. His father's abandoned taught him that tool.

The only reason I see a therapist is to help deal with the horrible way my son behaves toward me. Other than the problems I have with him, I'm a very well adjusted person.

b. my son has clearly demonstrated, by using personal information he knows about me in a very detrimental way toward me, that he does not respect my privacy. I have NEVER disrespected his.

I did not speak to his doctor. I simply wrote to him because I thought he could tell me whether he felt it would be helpful for my son and I to seek family therapy to mend this divide. He wrote back. If he felt there was something wrong with my asking, he could have simply ignored my letter.

My intent was to ask a professional, who has insight into the problem, what the best course of action is for me to take. My son had invited me to do so. I did not complain about my son or call him "useless."

Obviously, not everyone who responds to these questions is either insightful or trying to be helpful. People provide an opinion that is motivated by their own past and the sometimes misguided impression based on what they think they read. Sometimes they read-in things that haunt them from their own relationships and I believe that's what you've done. I appreciate your input because you have given me an understanding of how my son thinks.

I'm his mother. I'll always be his mother and I will never give up on him. I don't expect him to be my little boy. I expect that he will be an adult and have a life. I expect he will be independent.

He has struggled for years to keep from being so and his father allowed that dependence on him because he felt guilty for their past.

I wish I could change things and have a normal relationship with an adult son. I don't see that as "denial." I'm a mom. We never give up.

zippit · Jul 10, 2009, 07:36 AM

Dear mom,
Im not going to highjack your post,but aside from a little age difference I'm in the same boat with my son,all I can say is it is very difficult you find yourself on day saying "fine im glad hes doing what hes doing,just think of the time and money id be out,all he ever did was take take take so fine im happy with it" then the next day your saying "how can he do this to me after all i did for him,thats my special boy i can't go on without him in my life"
So what can you do?
I try to tell myself a few little things to help me get through.
Ask ? Do you think he's this tore up over me not being around?
If we were to go back to communicating would things be different? Little side note my sons best friend lives two doors down so I get to see him coming and going yet not stopping.I know in my life I came from divorced parents and I went from worshiping Dad,to hating Dad,and back again and the same with mom.AS you grow and experience life you go through changes and these changes will cause you to look back and see things differently.

Jake2008 · Jul 10, 2009, 07:43 AM

Hi hopelessmom,

I don't know if your last post was directed at me, but if it was you have missed a few points, if you wouldn't mind reading it again.

Of course you will always be his mother, and you will always love him, that's not questioned whatsoever.

My point is only that I understand what you are saying. But that being said, you are here for advice, and anybody stopping to offer assistance isn't out to insult you personally. You have to expect varied responses to your question, "Are there solutions for a 28 year old son with a parasitic mentality".

My impression is that overall, you need to concentrate on yourself more. While you may have an active social life and good friends, if, and I say if, it is clouded by the thoughts you carry of your son, you really aren't living your life as much as you probably should be.

Only you can reach that place where you don't have to ask the question you asked to find peace with him, and truly be settled with knowing that your life should be all about you now.

He may or may not be able, or willing, to change the direction of his own life. Most of us certainly sympathize with you as most of us are parents too.

From one woman and mother to another, I do think counselling is a good idea. Not because he has demanded it, but independent of that, just for you. Even if it is to vent to a person live, face to face, certainly can't do any harm.

I wish you all the best.

JoeCanada76 · Jul 10, 2009, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Hopeless Mom

I do not want my son at my side. You are very incorrect. There's a difference between "cutting the apron strings" and abject cruelty toward a parent.

To withold a kind word at the holidays, birthday good wishes or even a call on mother's day- especially to a parent who you know you are the only family for, and when you live 8 blocks away, is not cutting apron strings, it's cruel behavior.

"Cutting the apron strings" means not relying on your parents...... not treating them in a horrible way. For him to tell me I am "useless" to him because I "no longer dish out money to support him" and so he will never speak to me again is mean.

There's a difference.

I never said my son was useless....HE said I was "useless" to him. Mature people don't deal with their loved ones this way. Even if you don't go along with another person's opinion, you don't treat them with cruelty.

I am not trying to win anybody's sympathy. I am trying to determine if anyone has some insight that I and my therapist may have overlooked.

And the reason I don't disclose to him that I see a therapist is that a. he has demanded I do so as a "condition" of loving me. Just as he is entitled to my UNconditional love, I am entitled to his.

I don't make conditions for my sons behavior. Requests and conditions are two very different things. Requests are how adults communicate. Conditions are demands and incorporate a threat. It's not okay to threaten your loved ones. I have never threatened to whithold my love from my son because he does or did not do what I asked.

That's his father's tactic. His father's abandoned taught him that tool.

The only reason I see a therapist is to help deal with the horrible way my son behaves toward me. Other than the problems I have with him, I'm a very well adjusted person.

b. my son has clearly demonstrated, by using personal information he knows about me in a very detrimental way toward me, that he does not respect my privacy. I have NEVER disrespected his.

I did not speak to his doctor. I simply wrote to him because I thought he could tell me whether he felt it would be helpful for my son and I to seek family therapy to mend this divide. He wrote back. If he felt there was something wrong with my asking, he could have simply ignored my letter.

My intent was to ask a professional, who has insight into the problem, what the best course of action is for me to take. My son had invited me to do so. I did not complain about my son or call him "useless."

Obviously, not everyone who responds to these questions is either insightful or trying to be helpful. People provide an opinion that is motivated by their own past and the sometimes misguided impression based on what they think they read. Sometimes they read-in things that haunt them from their own relationships and I believe that's what you've done. I appreciate your input because you have given me an understanding of how my son thinks.

I'm his mother. I'll always be his mother and I will never give up on him. I dont' expect him to be my little boy. I expect that he will be an adult and have a life. I expect he will be independent.

He has struggled for years to keep from being so and his father allowed that dependence on him because he felt guilty for their past.

I wish I could change things and have a normal relationship with an adult son. I don't see that as "denial." I'm a mom. We never give up.

You might be looking for a kind word and notice on these special occasions. All I am saying is you need to leave him be. Maybe in the future he will come back to you. You need to hear things from all aspects and I truly hope it helps you. I am glad that you are seeing somebody to work through how this effects you. I am thankful for that. I am glad you will never give up but for now it is best to let him be. I think in my personally opinion once you do that. Later down the road, once your son experiences life on his own. He will eventually come around.

As far as answering from past experiences or relationships that haunt the individual. Or that it effects us in how we interpret others writings. I think that is true. Your right on the money and I admit that to be true. We all have personal experiences that effect our advice and our experience. Just like everybody else on this thread has talked about their advice according to their own experiences.

I hope I did not hijack this thread and thank you for posting and appreciate your thoughts.

Joe

Hopeless Mom · Jul 10, 2009, 07:46 AM

To Jake2008-

My last message was directed to jesushelper76 but I don't think that the salutation was picked up.

I just wanted to again thank you for your insight. One of the things I've been trying to grapple with is what to do if and when he eventually makes his way back.

I am so angry at him for the hurt he is causing but love him more than words can say. I feel stuck in a quagmire and don't see an action I could live with. I don't want to subject myself to his going and coming. And I don't want to subject myself to not having a son in my life either.

I want to do what's best for him. At the same time I don't want to do what puts me back in a position of being treated so badly. The thought of turning my back on him is a killer. The thought of letting him back in my life is a killer.

I'm really at a loss.