[Jake2008]

Understandable.

Those boundaries are not always cut and dried.

I think it's more likely than not that he will come back home at some point. He should know ahead of time, that you won't accept him living in your home, but you will be available to him to help him if you can, with advice, and advice only. And only when it is convenient to you.

It's important to let him know that you will be there for him, but the terms and conditions have changed. He can no longer demand that you attending counselling etc. so that you can have the pleasure of his company!

This is a win win. He will know that when the spaghetti hits the fan in his life, that he can't just pack a bag and head back to mom's. He'll be forced to deal with his own situation without a ready supply of food, shelter, clothing, guidance. And, if he needs you, you will be there for him, but on your terms once again, not his.

That doesn't make you any less of a mother, person, human being. Loving someone comes with boundaries. Without a plan in place on your end, you will be unprepared when he does contact you, and by then it will be too late. He needs to know what your expectations of him are, not the other way around, now.

Protect yourself emotionally. Stay strong, and realize this is really no different than any other consequence you have taught him at any point during his life. Don't negotiate, and be prepared to stop him when he begins to blame you for the situation he is in, because he will likely get angry if you aren't soaking up the guilt he's putting back on your shoulders.

You aren't turning your back on him, you aren't taking love away, and you are, as you've always been, a good mother to him. You just need to separate yourself from his problems, to the extent that he knows he cannot walk all over you. You need the peace of mind knowing that you can change the relationship, and not stop loving him, yet not be subjected to his cruelty.

That is love, isn't it? It's all about balance, and right now, the pendulum is swinging in his favour. Let him know that you have drawn a line in the sand, and it won't be crossed. I doubt that that will be a surprise to him.

It might help to write out what you expect from him, and what he can expect from you. Literally, a list. Take the emotion out so he doesn't play on that, and very politely send him an email, outlining how your relationship is going to be. Your call, not his. Then stick to it.

Don't underestimate that he loves you very much. He does not show it, obviously, but I would bet both my left feet that he does love you. Maybe the structure you present to him will be beneficial, as he may very well think about how he behaves as affecting other people in his life as well.

You don't owe any apologies, explanations, or compromises. You aren't asking anything of him that he shouldn't already know, and if he doesn't, he should. As long as you remain in a place where you are unsure of yourself, you will be subjected to this torture.

[zippit]

To Jake2008-


. One of the things I've been trying to grapple with is what to do if and when he eventually makes his way back.

I

I'm really at a loss.

I have often thought if/when my son was to come back that first off I wouldn't allow him to just come into the home because I always told him this is YOUR home,so I wouldn't let him just come back make himself comfortable,raid the fridge etc etc I would meet with him in a neutral place i.e. a restaurant or something and we would sit and talk.Kind of like when your dating we would slowly build the relationship back up.. and I pray it happens

[Jake2008]

I like that idea Zip. Arrange to meet at a restaurant. Sharing conversation over a nice meal in public will likely be good for both.

[zippit]

There are something's that trouble me about the poster hopeless mom.
It seems that you really want to make things better yet you call your son a parasite.and from your replies I feel like you still harbour resentment towards his father,so these are issues you need to deal with while your "waiting" to restore your relationship with your son

[Hopeless Mom]

To Zippit:

It is difficult to feel anything but resentment toward a man who lived out of my pocket for so many years by his non support and diminshed the quality of life for my child and myself. The financial, moral and emotional support that he failed to provide my son had to come from somewhere. It came from me or simply wasn't there for him.

He created a terrible financial bind that sometimes meant working at 5 jobs (no kidding) at once to keep my son in private school, on medication and well fed. It was difficult to get the type of mental health intervention that could have helped him or me at the time. I did the best I could. My son is both ADHD and asthmatic. His medical bills were astronomical.

With his father's help, he could have had better. With his father's help, he may not have been an oppositional defiant kid who transitioned into the hostile young man he's become.

Without his father's abandonment, he would likely not be using aboandonment as a tool. It would simply not be in his portfolio of acceptable behaviors.

His father is simply grossly irresponsible and lives off people. If you expect something from him, he feigns anger so he can throw up a smoke screen to duck out on his responsibilities. It is amazing that a child who grew up without him is so much like him. It is a strong testament for the case of nature over nurture!

I try to dismiss my negative thoughts toward him. He is who he is. I survived. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I care nothing of him. I care a great deal about how his neglect distorted my son's development. As I deal with the impact of the distortion he caused, it is very difficult to not harbor resentment.

To Jake2008

I'd love to be able to communicate exactly what you phrased to him. You are absolutely on the money. The problem is, I have no idea whether he will read an email I send him. He told me he won't. I've written to him and he does not respond.

When I reach out to communicate to him, I speak to a painful abyss.

[zippit]

It just seem to me that you would have gotten over it more by now,it can't be healthy to still have such strong animosity towards the father.
I hope you haven't showed this to your son,and regardless he must feel the resentment coming from you.
Don't get me wrong,my wife and I were talking earlier and it's like these kids only think of themselves and unless you'r exactly what they need or want they have no use for you.In your case I would look for the dad and sons relationship to hit a snag

[Hopeless Mom]

I made several overtures to bury the hatchet with his Dad. I sent a letter to him, when he returned letting him know how glad I was that he was back in his son's life.

I tried, more than once.

No response.

Three years ago my son called me one morning at about 6:30 to come and get him because his apartment had incinerated.

I was standing with him on the city sidewalk. He was half naked and covered from head to toe in soot. All his possessions had gone up in smoke and he was lucky to be alive... WITHOUT the shirt on his back. His father called.

You think the man would come together to the table to work out a plan to help his son... of course not. That would mean that his son would finally get to see his parents get along for his benefit and be on the same page to help him.

He's far more interested in perpetuating the myth that I am the cause of his absence since he hates me so much and can't stand speaking to me or sitting in the same room with me.

That's the excuse he gives my son for disappearing from his life, no support, no birthday cards, no letters.

Those, by the way, are the very same words my son used, when he told me he would never speak to me again... he hates me so much it makes him sick to sit in the same room with me, much less talk to me. He added he never wants to see me again... no phone, no text, no emails.

[JoeCanada76]

If that is what he wants. You need to let him have that. You show resentment towards your son and his father for a lot of things. In my experience as well, whether the mother realizes it or not. Sometimes the disgust or distrust that was caused by the father is brought onto the son as well.

You keep going on about the past and the medical bills and everything that you did for him. Almost if you expect something in return. All you have to do as a parent is teach them and then let them go to live his own life without any interference.

He is setting his boundaries with you and rather you like it or not. You need to respect them or the problem will just get worse.

You also go on about how he was asthmatic and ADHD and so on. Well I was brought up without my real father in the picture I had similar medical problems (severe asthma). Yes it does cost a lot of money that that is what happens when you raise children. Do I want that to be held over my head all the time like your doing with your son?

The whole point of having children is doing our best to raise them so they can be independent and live life out in the real world on there own, and live their own life.

Now you need to do the same and stop holding on to all this stuff from the past. You need to move past it already because your resentment is big. It will only continue to hurt yourself and possible future relationship with your son.

[zippit]

For the most part jesushlper said what I'm trying to say to you,however I want you to see the lighter side of it that time will tell,
Anotherwords a grown ex-husband saying he can't stand to be in the same room as you is completely different than a ignorant young man saying that to his mother
Don't LUMP THEM TOGETHER
And in the mean time take care of YOU
I suspect you have voiced your feeling about your ex to your son and that is wrong!
You have no business writing a letter to the dad let that go,of course he ignored it.
Your job isn't to reconcile with the father it is to be the best mom you can be.your struggles and monies and time that went into your son are behind you now and yes you want the reward of at least being in his life but that is going to be his choice.I can write pages of ways I messed up with my son and ways I will change it when we get back together forget about the past and move on to
What's NEXT?

[Hopeless Mom]

His father continues to fan the flame. He has never stopped. My son throws his father's words in my face, exactly as they have come out of his mouth.

He also throws his father's money and lifestyle in my face. His father is very charismatic and lives flamboyantly. My son berates me for struggling and lauds his father for being wealthy.

Parents are supposed to put their differences aside for the best interest of their children. My letter to his father was an offer and an invitation to do so. It was not only the right thing to do, it was my responsibility to do so when he returned and began embroiling my son in his cover-up.

When a father disappears, the child goes on living. A small child thinks he is the cause of his disappearance and it effects his entire sense of self and security. If you think an abandoned child can be raised without a reality discussion about his father's behavior toward him, you're mistaken. My discussion with my son as he was growing was not that his daddy was a bad man. He needed to know that his daddy was a person who had a problem accepting his responsibilities in order to be assured that HE had no part in making Daddy go away.

His father returned my attempt not to bad mouth him into his absence being all my fault. And my son, who desperately wants a father, accepted it.

His father did the worst possible thing he could have done to his child, save stick a knife through his heart. Upon his return, and continuing right up to today, he does the worst possible thing he can do by blaming me for his horrendous treatment of the past instead of taking responsibility for his behavior.

The problems I have with my son are decidedly because of the abandonment issues he has. Were it not for his father's actions, abandonment would not be an acceptable behavior for him. Running away when he has a dispute with someone would likely not be how he handles personal interaction.

As to shouldering the burdens of your child's upbringing per jesushlpr, yes, parents are expected to do their part. Parents, however, are not expected to do the other parent's part. My son's father is not a poor man. He wasn't sick. He wasn't incapacitated. He wasn't dead. He was cruel.

He dumped the entire financial, moral, social, educational, medical and familial development of our child on my shoulders. My son does not owe me any thanks for what I did for him. He was a child. He had no part in his father's wrong doing. He does not see how the hole his father left in his life affects him. I see it.

I see that he doesn't have the familial bond that having 2 parents and an extended family creates. I see the lack of maturity that results from having to close his eyes to the longing he had for his father's love. I see the permanent damage his father's absence had to my pocket and my relationship with my son because I was his sole support and his sole disciplinarian... the good parent, the bad parent, the loved parent, the hated parent, all of it, rolled into one.

Try for a moment to think about NEVER being able to escape from the unwanted behavior of your child because there is NO adult other than yourself, ever, when he acts up. Multiply that exponentially by 12 for an ADHD child. Consider for a moment the negative impact it has on a child that the parent can't walk away as they would be able to if 2parents were providing care. There could be NO separation, no opportunity to "chill". My son learned to be a bully. He is bullying me now in the most horrific and painful way.

My son was emotionally and financially crippled because of the absence of a father in his life. Because of his learning deficits, he was a child who particularly needed the structure of having a dad. He was a very difficult child for me to raise single handedly. It was not necessary. His father made it necessary.

I was financially crippled by his father who spent a lifetime driving fancy cars, globe hopping, dining at fabulous restaurants and wearing only couture clothing. He wasn't born here in the US. He had no US address. I could spend a king's ransom on locating a man who didn't want to be located and dragging him back to his son's life, or I could put my shoulder to the lever and support my son. His first ex-wife with 2 children interacted with him. He kidnapped her children and took them to Argentina. I would have absolutely no way of getting my child back if he had done the same to me.

The harm he inflicts is ongoing. He is disrespectful and unappreciative, and yes, HE owes me appreciation for picking up HIS share of the responsibility all those years.

[Hopeless Mom]

And by the way, Zippit... I'm not "waiting" to restore the relationship with my son. I have a relationship with him right now... a very bad one.

I conveyed the information in my messages in order to see if I could gain insight that could make it better.

I don't hold my son responsible or accountable for his father's bad acts.

I hold my son's father responsible for his and I hold my son responsible for his own. I recognize, however, that his father is influencing his actions.

[zippit]

You need to come to terms with the fact that his father didn't abandoned you or him in your original post you say both we separated,and later he abandoned.what was your part in this separation? You can't fault the father for going on and making a life for himself,as far as support its your and them states job to keep track of him his earnings and to make sure he's paying his share,now I'm not saying his actions are right a good man would have stepped to the plate,kept up visits etc.This could have been his plan to set back and wait for when the boy got older and then take it up from there,give them they're time see how it turns out.

[Hopeless Mom]

Humorous!

I was being tactful when I called it a separation.

He' was a foreigner. He was abusive. He quit his job. He globe hopped with no address.

In my 4th month of pregnancy, he threw me down a flight of stairs. The police took him out. It was the third time. We'd done conseling. I had to concern myself with the welfare of my child.

In my 9th month of pregnancy, there was a hearing. I was issued an order of protection. He was barred from coming home.

He jetted around the world doing deals. He didn't report taxes. He didn't produce any income record to the courts. I I couldn't locate
Him to finalize our divorce until 17 years later.
The courts awarded me $30 per week as "temporary" support without records. (Doesn't even pay for diapers and certainly doesn't pay to hire a detective to go after him when you need all your money to take care of your child.) He'd kidnapped his other kids while I was pregnant. Messing with him was decidedly not a good idea.

[zippit]

, I have had extreme depression over this circumstance and am attempting to deal with it as I can.

.

This has to be fixed before any progress can be made

[Jake2008]

I suppose if you look at this and think that had you stayed with your husband, he would have made your life a living hell too. And likely your son would have been even worse, without his father participating in a meaningful way.

You still would have been on the hook likely, for most of what you have gone through with your son. The major decisions as to his care, and the primary person of his anger. I doubt that all of you under one roof, would have meant that he would not have turned out the same regardless.

That is something to consider. Your ex husband is who he is, and his attitude and arrogance would likely have made your job that much harder if he were in the picture.

I accept all that you have said of your past, and your current relationship with your son as true. I don't doubt that events happened as they did.

What I see here though, is that your son now, is also who he is. There is no changing him, he's a man, just like his father, and there was no changing his father either. Your son is 28, and can do and say as he likes. That he chooses to have no regard for you, or consideration for all that you have done, is now set in concrete. It isn't going to change.

He is selfish and uncaring. That is who he is, or chooses to be. It works for him for whatever reason, and even if he is able to modify how he thinks and behaves toward you and others, nothing can erase the past, and heal this torment you still go through.

It would never be enough is my point. Your own peace of mind is not going to come from the satisfaction of having your feelings validated by either one of them.

This situation is right up front and centre of your life, and this is not healthy for you. To keep re-living the past and simmering about it, does not free you, it binds you. While you go about your day to day living, waiting for some resolve that will likely never come, you are not living a full and happy life.

That he is now 28, and living his own life, you must learn how to live yours, without him. I know it is easy to say for me, to advise you, and I don't mean to sound trite, but it is time to find ways to get beyond this, and let the dust settle in some part of your brain, tucked away in an imaginary file cabinet somewhere.

The time you spend allowing this to be so central in your life, is time you are wasting.

[flossie]

Humorous!!

I was being tactful when I called it a separation.

He' was a foreigner. He was abusive. He quit his job. He globe hopped with no address.

In my 4th month of pregnancy, he threw me down a flight of stairs. The police took him out. It was the third time. We'd done conseling. I had to concern myself with the welfare of my child.

In my 9th month of pregnancy, there was a hearing. I was issued an order of protection. He was barred from coming home.

He jetted around the world doing deals. He didn't report taxes. He didn't produce any income record to the courts. I I couldn't locate
him to finalize our divorce until 17 years later.
The courts awarded me $30 per wk as "temporary" support without records. (Doesn't even pay for diapers and certainly doesn't pay to hire a detective to go after him when you need all your money to take care of your child.) He'd kidnapped his other kids while I was pregnant. Messing with him was decidedly not a good idea.

It sounds to me that your REAL issues surround your son's father.

[Hopeless Mom]

I know you've given me great advice Jake2008.

Some days I'm good at focusing on my blessings and some days it's harder. I'm hoping that the good days will begin outnumbering the painful ones.

He's my son, he's my family. It's hard. I'm trying.

If your loved one dies, you somehow reconcile the loss and move on. Their life is over and you can store your caring in a special place where their memory stops being painful and foremost in your thoughts.

Having a loved one perpetrate day after day of hatred, the dawn of each day is the continuance of renewed pain. It's another day he doesn't call, doesn't write, doesn't reach out. I can't imagine losing the pain unless I lose my love for him. I haven't a clue how to do that.

[Jake2008]

I do understand. It is greiving. Grieving the loss of hopes and dreams, and a relationship that will likely never materialize.

Grieving everything associated with those losses. 28 years' history to end, is a huge, unfathomable result for most people to understand.

Maybe it's more of coming to terms with what is, instead of what should have been. Embracing the good years, even though they were hard and a struggle, and the victories that you did have. Had you not raised your son with so much love, he would not have likely gained at least some independence, and the ability to make his own choices now.

I think to teach our children even that much, is a job well done.

I don't know what to tell you to make you feel better. Your pain comes through loud and clear. I hope that as time goes on, your son comes around a bit, and you can focus on the good and positive things you had in your relationship in the early years. You could never have predicted this outcome, and you are not responsible for it.

Good luck hopeless mom.

[zippit]

Well I'm not sure if you haven't completely blocked me out,I hope not and didn't mean for it to go that way.
Like I said I'm going through almost the same thing.These kids are just very self centered both your son and mine have girlfriends involved,for me I know if they were to break up it would change everything I don't want that because he's happy with her

You can't loose the pain but you can overcome some of the pain by taking care of you.It is tough.
And I hope you don't feel like I hy-jacked your post and I know I'm kind of a nuisance but I'm fallowing this post closely and its helping me with what I'm going through and I thank you for that.
And its so hard for me to read and not in put but I will try

[Hopeless Mom]

Jake2008- I so appreciate your support. Just knowing that another person understands is a blessing! I know you can't fix this. If I can help you in your struggle, I'd be happy to try.

Zippit- I didn't spell out the entire saga of what I went through with my son's dad because, quite frankly, if it weren't affecting my relationship with my son at the moment, I simply wouldn't give a damn.

I stopped caring about how he saw the world along time ago and dealing with him really wasn't what I was attempting to get out of this conversation.

I understand you are well intentioned and that you don't have all the facts. Had I not been looking for input, I would not have asked. Your comments have been helpful and I appreciate them.

Like you, I believe my son having a girlfriend could be a factor in this separation. His last girlfriend was someone he had known, and I had known, all his life. They had gone to nursery school together. There was no way he could have said anything to her that would engender negative feelings toward me. She would have known it not to be true.

The young lady he is currently seeing has no history with me. She only knows what my son has told her about me and so he has the liberty of characterizing himself and me as whatever he choses. It seems that having a mom, for some sons, feels like dependency. He wants to be independent and strong in her eyes. I don't blame him for that. I don't blame him for not coming around. I don't blame him for not wanting to include me... although he did, frequently... and not because I insisted or imposed. In fact, the day he exploded at me, for the last time, he was calling to invite me for lunch.

The hard part is the hatred with which he has separated himself. I'm told that it's what some kids do. I'm also told that sometimes the closer they feel to you, the more they need to desacrate the bridge to you in order to assure themselves that they can't return so they can convince themselves they are on their own.

It's funny how as children independence is so important and as adults we begin to recognize that the only thing that really matters is the love and caring and interdependence of family and friends.

This is the first time my son has earned enough money to actually live on his own without help. Now that he can, he's grappling with what place does "Mom" have in his life. It hurts to know that the choice he has made is that I was only useful to him because I helped him. Love, caring, concern are simply not part of his portfolio of feelings. Knowing his father, I wonder whether being totally self-centered is indeed an inherited trait. He didn't see me live that way.

I can look back and wish I had done more to try to overcome his lack of empathy for people. It didn't spring up overnight. He's always been this way.

I see kids being difficult with their parents and want to step in and say, "make sure to take him to a soup kitchen to help out so he gets a sense of pride from goodness and giving back. Help him know and appreciates how blessed he is."

I thought I had made that effort with my son. I see that I didn't do it enough to make a difference.

I know there is nothing further I can do to mold my son's character and I look positively at the fact that he can stand up on his own two feet and be independent. Even if he doesn't appreciate the efforts it took to make him that way, I know in my heart it was my doing.

I can be altruistic right now because the Zoloft is kicking in! Thank God for medication! I resisted taking it for a time because I was damned if I was going to let my son's behavior put me on drugs. It's helped, however, and if you're very upset over your situation with your son, it may be worth your considering. Without the medication, I can't think about my son without crying. I am able to not get overwhelmed when I'm sured up by the tiny little pill.