[21boat]

We hear so much about helping the minorities for decades. There are so many Government programs that have been in place for a long time to help lift the minorities out of poverty and yet our system really doesn't seem to improve things much. There are more uneducated minorities then ever. More on Welfare then ever. More in prison then ever. Basically all children in the U.S. have had access to good schools and teachers but the minorities have record breaking drop out rates unlike this Country has ever seen.

At this point its seems we are more enabling minorities then actually helping.
.
How can we instill that one needs to help themselves more? Get a good education or you may starve. Learn the English language and get a better job.. That you need to work to a decent life other then living on the streets. Schools are schools with the same basic class's all schools have in the U.S.

Because of how the Government programs are set up, do you feel we are differently spoiling people and enabling them to become more disabled then to join the workforce?

Did we blind ourselves not understanding the old. "You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink" Especially if the "thirst" isn't there and too many cups of water are around.

[N0help4u]

I have said for years that the social programs need reconstructed. Kids think nothing of having 2 or 3 babies between 13 and 20.
Then many have a sense of you owe it to me entitlement. I have lived right in it for about 20 years and seen it all. Many moms lay on the sofa all day playing video games and leave their 2 yr olds running the street from 9 am to 6 pm without checking on them once.

Then a lot of poor take things for granted like their baby outgrows crib, toys, clothes and whatever so they throw it out in the garbage instead of passing it on to another mother in need. Same with everything else. Mom could give them a $1,000. Piece of furniture and then just because somebody else gives them the same thing they throw the $1,000. Sofa away instead of giving it away. I call them the greedy needy.

I have said for years that incentive programs would be better than hand outs. Like money and resources to start their own business or affordable rent to own houses. Then if they blow it its on them.

Like the saying you can give a man a fish to feed him for a day or you can give him a fishing pole and teach him to fish.

[ginger casarez]

As an educator I can tell you every state has a different method in teaching not just because of the minorities but what better fits. Every child is different and we try to find criteria that suites every child's needs. Also showing on class size, what the school district is demanding. The schools are government funded, and I can speak for our district when 97% of the population is MINORITIES do began to learn if they don't already fm preschool and speak english. We offer classes to parents which they attend to learn english. We also have a program called "Dreams Fulfilled" where we follow are kids out of elementary all the way to graduation helping them in tutoring in anything they need . Not one family did I meet not have a job though! A lot of them do the jobs that you probably would not man up to do! When you look at it isn't the minorities sitting on the couch!! And why are you so afraid to learn spanish? You know more than half of the mexican population is native american and they did settle down here first do you really want to get into this topic? Being half black knowing my history and today they are making history work everyday. Why are you looking at only the bad I think you need to take a look in the mirror first and look before making another statement like that!!

[21boat]

Not looking at the bad. Just seeing what we see and the facts/numbers
Ginger, glad to hear that this is happening. But I have a different take. .

A lot of them do the jobs that you probably would not man up to do!

The U.S. as a whole has been manning up to all the Jobs for 100s of years way before there were any real amount of people from Puerto Rico or Mexico here. Heard that sales pitch too much. What Cultures did those Jobs in massive numbers in for hundreds of years. Better goggle up the census since it started.

when you look at it isn't the minorities sitting on the couch!!

Need to check the Welfare stats here. It reflects what I see in my neck of the woods to many have been sitting on the porch for decades

why are you so afraid to learn Spanish?

Whoooo hold on here, flip the coin. If we went to Mexico to live and our main language being English, should we say why are Mexicans/Puerto Ricans so afraid to learn English.. Our country started with Many different languages in the beginning. We adopted English as our common language so much so that most all Americans speak English. Now all of a sudden it feels we are Forced to speak Spanish. Not a natural process. Another comparable, Puerto Rico is part of the U.S. and do we try to change there street signs to English words?
When they come up to the states I what? Need to speak Spanish in my country.. Fair is fair and to be fair is in both directions. Lets not stop there how about the Italians/Germans/Greeks etc. They adopted and learned to speak our English language so much so that our industrial revolution happened. They didn't even think that the U.S. needs to learn and speak German as a second language. Explains why these cultures assimilated so well and excelled in the U.S. "Good Attitude" Just to prove my assessment on who should learn what and who was here in mass numbers from a single country.
Ironically its on the same web page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_..._United_States

CPS estimate is correct for the Stateside Puerto Rican population, then by 2003 the Puerto Rican population in the U.S, for the first time, exceeded that on the Island — It did so by 163,246 persons, making it 4.4 percent larger.

To give a sense of the scale of this Puerto Rican demographic phenomenon, the only comparable situation would be that of the Irish, which is so atypical that it underscores the uniqueness of the Puerto Rican case. As a result of the catastrophic potato famine of the 19th century and other developments, today the Irish-American population is close to 6 times (594.7 percent) that of the combined populations of Ireland and Northern Ireland. (Census Bureau 2004b)

The largest ethnic group in the United States, the Germans, represents 52.1 percent of the population of Germany. (Grosfoguel 2003: 219)

more than half of the Mexican population is Native American

At one point all of the native Americans spoke different languages. Take the native Indian tribes. They spoke such different dialects they themselves couldn't understand other tribes. Until the U.S. came into existence only then was America united and English was accepted as its one basic language and has been using it for 100s of years.

Just trying to point out some U.S. History. We've had so many different speaking cultures come to the U.S. and up to now things were fine. Now the Spanish speaking cultures come here and want US to change and learn there language. Reverse that and see how that would Fly in Mexico.
So what's so special about the Spanish not assimilating like all the other cultures did to make this Country Great and it Worked pretty Darn good until... Now?? If anybody has a complaint here it should have been Germans And German as a second language long before the Mexicans/Puerto Ricans showed up in big numbers.. You wonder why there is some animosity here..? And acceptance problems.. Sure every culture has it complaints but who screams the loudest and doesn't want to blend in and expects The U.S. to change for them.. That alone is what draws negative attention.. Why all of a sudden expect to change what has been in place for 100s of years and look where it brought this country in all its world power..

In a nut shell. Lets look at WHY the push is in the Spanish direction The reason there is such a difference between then and now is reflective of welfare that did't exist back then. If you came to this country and did't learn its common language then you were very limited to getting any Job for the obvious reasons or Starved because of no work/money/food. That alone was the driving force for other culture that migrated hear for a JOB to make a better life for them and there families. Look at how many died in the ship crossings to get here. Not hopping a fence or flying in from Puerto Rico. HUGE differences.

[21boat]

Ginger as an educator we keep dumbing down to reach the minorities instead of them raising up like most of the uneducated did in the last 112 years, I also hear that some schools out west are teaching mostly Spanish history. Mmmm wounder why... I am curious of that "different method of teaching" you stated

Hear is an example to show how we been dumbing down.

What it took to get an 8th grade education in 1895...

Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that they only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out.

This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina , Kansas , USA . It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina , and reprinted by the Salina Journal.
8th Grade Final Exam: Salina , KS - 1895
Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of capital letters.
2. Name the parts of speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define verse, stanza and paragraph
4. What are the principal parts of a verb? Give principal parts of 'lie,''play,' and 'run.'
5. Define case; illustrate each case.
6 What is punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
Arithmetic (Time,1 hour 15 minutes)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. Deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. Wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3,942 lbs. what is it worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1,050 lbs. For tare?
4. District No 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find the cost of 6,720 lbs. Coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft.. Long at $20 per metre?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance of which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Ban k Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt
U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton , Bell , Lincoln , Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865.
Orthography (Time, one hour)
[Do we even know what this is? ]
1. What is meant by the following: alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u.' (HUH?)
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi, dis-mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, f ain, feign, vane , vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.
Geography (Time, one hour)
1 What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas ?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia , Odessa , Denver , Manitoba , Hecla , Yukon , St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S. Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth.

Notice that the exam took FIVE HOURS to complete.

Gives the saying 'he only had an 8th grade education' a whole new meaning, doesn't it? Also shows you how poor our education system has become. Also it explains how the immigrants KNEW education was the key to making this country great. Imagine teaching that to a 13 year old>>>Now..

[Quasar00]

[ you know more than half of the mexican population is native american and they did settle down here first do you really want to get into this topic? Being half black knowing my history and today they are making history work everyday.

Actually, let's get into the "who was here first" question. How far back is "first" to you? Conveniently, each culture that uses that argument stops at their own culture. This is precisely why the Middle East is an insoluable problem.

It's ridiculously unhelpful to play "who was here first" because "here" has been sufficiently transformed by the most recent ones here, as to no longer be the "here" that was "there". If you know your history, count how many wars have been fought over ancestral claims to land. Do YOU really want to go there, knowing the predispositon of human beings to finally and naturally place their own interest of more immediate concern over their cultural history and grab a gun or pitchfork?

There are Mexican groups who think they have ancestral claim to the American Southwest, and fully intend to take it back to become either part of Mexico, or a separate "middle country" (after all, Mexico isn't a doing so well). Their stated method thus far is to conquer by attrition. As long as America is willing to let them in, they will populate those states and legislate themselves out of the union, or so they think. Is there any possible way you can imagine that this will go without ultimate violence? If there is, methinks you think everyone else thinks like you. You should review your history, because they certainly do not.

Who do you think would win that? What innocents would pay the price for self-interest disguised as ancestral claim and utter lack of understanding of human nature? Being all or half of any race or culture does not entitle YOU personally to the perceived injustices suffered by that race or culture in the past. They are not YOURS. In truth, had they not happened precisely as they did, would you not have been born to lament over them?

[N0help4u]

So Quasar you are saying that boat21's statement that they are teaching kids out west mainly Spanish history is a wrongful statement
Because of your reasoning yet you go on to criticize that people do not want to look past their own history. Wouldn't teaching mostly Spanish history out west be teaching mostly one history and self-interest disguised as ancestral claim ?
I don't see you saying they should teach a balance of Spanish, English, Black and Native American. And how about the railroad that the Chinese were forced to build and many died because they were beaten half to death while building it?

Seems to me you are the one playing who was here first

Boat21 I agree our kids are being dumbed down. They don't know how to give change for a dollar bill when you buy something for 82 cents. They and teachers have said they accept papers with txting even for tests.
I have told kids here to spell and use periods so their posts made sense. I only tell them that when you lose track who they are referring to because of lack of periods. They reply huh?? Like I was the one typing in some foreign language. They can't tell you where Detroit, Michigan or Philadelphia, Pa are either.

[slapshot_oi]

Every child is different and we try to find criteria that suites every childs needs.

Good luck 'cause it ain't going to happen. There's no panacea of education, some kids are just smarter than others. Teaching to the bottom half of the class causes the top half to lose interest, now you have some kids that just can't understand the concept and others who just don't care anymore.

The public education system is garbage. The good side is you run into kids who hate school as much as you do and make lasting friendships; that's pretty much all high school is good for. Other than that, it'll make you dumber for having listened to instructors who are perhaps less qualified to teach the subject than the students. One of my high school gym teachers is now teaches biology and yes, she did tell students that Bison are now extinct.

I graduated high school in 2004, so I had to deal with the "No Child Left Behind" joke.

[Quasar00]

[QUOTE=N0help4u;1923169]So Quasar you are saying that boat21's statement that they are teaching kids out west mainly Spanish history is a wrongful statement
Because of your reasoning yet you go on to criticize that people do not want to look past their own history.

I didn't address Boat21's comments at all, if you'll read back at who I quoted, so inducing a conclusion I never made is a bit of a stretch.

Racial and cultural bias is natural, whether in education or government. It is personalized and identified with in the minds of each generation. It evokes continuity, pride, anger, and everything good and bad. It's HUMAN to bias education, normal, natural, and generally not good for those NOT of that culture.

Learn everything, teach everything, do not exclude anything. But recognize that you don't own what you learn. It's not about YOU, except in the learning. This requires intellectual dicipline, which is NOT taught. "Slavery happened, it was bad, but it didn't happen to you". The last part is always missing. Racial and Cultural history is left open to ownership by those who can identify with it, as is the other side, blame to those who did nothing. If taught by a teacher who previously took ownership of it themsleves, the WAY it is taught, the tonal inflection, the emphasis, the thousands of small details of subliminal communication reinforces that it's OK to take ownership of it.

No, teach everything you can, make choices in teaching that apply to the particular students, sure, but do NOT entitle them to anger and resentment that they did not earn themselves!

[N0help4u]

Oh I see I thought you were commenting on this.

I also hear that some schools out west are teaching mostly Spanish history. mmmm wounder why... .

I agree kids need a well rounded education and most of what they are getting is watered down propaganda

[21boat]

Today they are making history work everyday.

History is made every day good or bad. Not sure what that means? /

Learn everything, teach everything, do not exclude anything.

Its really not going that direction at all, nice thought, information is just that and fine until facts are censored if it shows negativity towards a group of people. When that happens all people are dumbed down.

But recognize that you don't own what you learn

I do hope the collage students paying thousands to learn owns it. Corporations learned/invented and owns that knowledge. Corporations fighting in courts to keep it not to mention Gov military secrets keep what they learned.

who was here first this is precisely why the Middle east is an insoluable problem.

How old is the Middle East, add the closeness of hostile boarding countries, add religious fights. Not even a close comparable to the U.S. being so young and Canada, completely benign Mexico benign in warring against us ( Maybe)

There are Mexicans groups who think they have ancestral claim to the American Southwest, and fully intend to take it back to become either part of Mexico, or a separate “Middle country” ( after all, Mexico isn't doing so well) Their stated method thus so far.

Sounds Like Puerto Rico, Many there still want to become an independent country for Years. The first problem is over 60% of the pop is on U.S. Gov welfare. Over 40% quit School. See where the lack of Education kicks in. It takes a hell of a lot of Money and educated people to be a viable safe country in today's world. You express “knowing your History” Well if the Mexicans keep teaching more Spanish History explain how they can get close to understanding what it takes to achieve the status this Country has/had. Its not done by miss placed pride. Its being united as a people with Drive to Excel in ALL areas sciences/bussimess//commerace etc.. It's a certain Mindset that gets it done individually and as a whole Nation. Look back in the old days. The melting pots showed up in N.Y. and couldn't't wait to learn the English language to take the “immigration test” to become officially an American. To bust butt and learn so you can get better jobs or work unbelievably hard to send there kids to school and collage. In the old days to be able to say your kids in collage meant something. No hand outs then. That mindset, not learned in school.

Above all they wanted to be called and American period. . That's the Big Secret Not a Spanish American / German American /Dutch American/ African American Etc. There in lies the problem today, It divides/separates this country not really being UNITED. A self-created form of segregation. This is partly where I get my “Misplaced Pride” from. Oh,
If you are talking about the same Mexicans that are here now and crossing the borders. Need to bone up and get a good education. Or the “Mexico isn't doing well” will ultimately repeat itself. If the current grad trends stay the same or worsen then it will be a rubber stamp “Mexico 2”

Conveniently, each culture that uses that argument stops at their own culture..

We can take it back to the planet having one continent. But, lets Equally start when Mexico achieved its independence and when the U.S Independence was achieved. Classroom style so both nations can be recognized in its own right.

Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla (Mexican leader) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia
Mexico: Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla Mexican leader born May 8, 1753, Corralejo, near Guanajuato, Mexico died July 31, 1811, Chihuahua A Spanish priest considered the "father" of Mexico independence from Spain officially started in Sep 16 1810 but it really was recognize independent in late September 1821 by Spain and the end of the war. So here's today's Mexico as its own Country.

Mexico Independence 1821
U.S. independence 1776

See what we accomplished in the U.S. early on keeping High standards in ALL our schools. Look at Mexico & Puerto Rico and other countries around that time see what a difference in keeping a high educational standard does.

James Watt Cotton Gin, Interchangeable parts for muskets 1793, 1798
Robert Fulton Regular Steamboat service on the Hudson River 1807
Samuel F. B. Morse Telegraph 1836
Elias Howe Sewing Machine 1844
Cyrus Field Transatlantic Cable 1866
Alexander Graham Bell Telephone 1876
Thomas Edison Phonograph, Incandescent Light Bulb 1877, 1879
Nikola Tesla Induction Electric Motor 1888
Rudolf Diesel Diesel Engine 1892
Orville and Wilbur Wright First Airplane 1892
Henry Ford Model T Ford, Assembly Line 1908, 1913

Look at as what the U.S. used to be and how it got there. The old ways obviously worked to become a World Power so quickly. A UNITED NATION With world class education with good caliber of students