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redhed35 · Jul 1, 2009, 08:04 AM

IF I'm having a girls night out,and some guy comes up and he is all 'hey baby' and starts touching me,arm,leg,head,whatever.. I would not be a happy camper that's for sure!

I behave in a way that is respectful to my relationship,I would not be making goo goo eyes at a random man,I'm all for having a laugh and a good time when I'm out,but just because I'm not with my boyfriend at the time do I consider myself single.

Im wondering if the op behaves the same way in a bar if he is with his wife?

smoothy · Jul 1, 2009, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Synnen

But Smoothy--is SHE the one being irrational, because of self esteem issues?

Or is HE the one that is expecting to be able to act like he's single, even though he is now married?

I think anything from #5 on could be absolutely construed as cheating, depending on how it's done.

I'm a natural flirt. I made sure my husband understood that no matter who I flirted with, or touched (as long as it wasn't in a no-no place), I was going home with him---and if he couldn't deal with it, then we should end things before they get started.

However--if I had NEVER been a flirt, and then --because I'm bored in my marriage or whatever--just START to flirt with random guys in bars and touch them in ways to lead them on----my husband would have EVERY right to complain.

It's not about self-esteem or being controlling--it's about respecting each other enough to realize where the boundaries of any particular relationship are.

In my eyes she is being irrational. I have actually dated women that got all weird about who I spoke to, looked at, etc... even when these were friends I have known for years with NO desire to hop into bed with them for various reasons.

Some were worse than others... ALL are EX-girlfriends now. Like I said, I know a lot of people who are touchy, feely. If its your aunt or grandmother , maybe just a person that's much older, why is it more acceptable than if its someone young and attractive... say a best friends wife where there is no possibility anything will happen. And why exactly? My sister-in-laws are this way with me... always have been, wife doesn't freak out about it.

And we have seen so many threads on this site with women going bonkers because a guy just LOOKED at a woman across the street... but its always HIS problem... not hers, at least in her view.

And isn't that line of thought much like parts of Sharia law dictating who women can even be seen with or speak to... or if they can be out in public without their burlap sack... (Burqua) or risk being beaten? Just a role reversal and exaggerated...

MsMewiththat · Jul 1, 2009, 08:20 AM

I would say husband starting being unfaithful the moment he thought that he would do something with this girl in the bar. The seed was planted early on and if he went back to the bar thinking that he would see her, he planted the seed mentally and that to me is when it starts.

N0help4u · Jul 1, 2009, 08:22 AM

I agree that many girls get irrational, hysterical and all crazy. But some guys just aren't right with how they go about their flirting. Many of them give a girl reason to be bothered by it.

smoothy · Jul 1, 2009, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

I agree that many girls get irrational, hysterical and all crazy. But some guys just aren't right with how they go about their flirting. Many of them give a girl reason to be bothered by it.

Yeah, well there are some... and that does take place on both sides as well.

I've seen both men and women doing that before... usually to instigate a response for who knows what reason.

liz28 · Jul 1, 2009, 08:40 AM

To the OP why must you flirt with all the girls at the bar if your wife has a problem with it?

When I go to the bar it is usually with friends or my fiancé and yes I talk to everyone at the bar but I don't go there to flirt. I go to have a good time with my friends or fiancé.

N0help4u · Jul 1, 2009, 08:50 AM

Same here I go for the band, the food and shoot pool.
(I buy one or two drinks and make it last)
Flirting should be done in good taste and not offensive to your significant other.\
If she is over reacting then maybe the problem is hers one way or another.

smoothy · Jul 1, 2009, 09:09 AM

Most of what certain women call flirting (usually the ones with self esteme issues)... is just being sociable, this isn't Saudi Arabia or afghanistan after all. PARTICULARLY if she's there to see it. It's a rare guy that will actually flirt with his girlfriend or wife there.

jenniepepsi · Jul 1, 2009, 09:16 AM

I say it gets a bit iffy at 5

But definitely crosses the line at 9

Synnen · Jul 1, 2009, 09:34 AM

My question for those that only see it as cheating starting at #9----what about cybering? What about texts, phone calls, "emotional" adultery? Those people seldom actually have sex with the person they are "cheating" with, but there's still a line being crossed, right?

jenniepepsi · Jul 1, 2009, 09:35 AM

I agree synnen that's cheating too... that wasn't listed but iw ould have said that emotional cheating is cheating.

NeedKarma · Jul 1, 2009, 09:38 AM

Probably but it doesn't seem to bother me, most likely because I've never seen it happen to me. I certainly don't do anything that I wouldn't want my wife to do on her side. I've searched for ex-girlfriends on Facebook just for fun but that's about it.

I've always made a distinction between "cyber" stuff and real life. For instance I don't take this website (or any) seriously, I don't woryy about my reputatuon here because it isn't "real life" in my book. Phone calls are quite different, that gets in that gray area.

shazamataz · Jul 1, 2009, 09:42 AM

The only 'online cheating' I do is in a certain thread on here and my other half usually reads what I type.
If it was done without his knowledge and I kept it from him then I would consider it cheating.

I've been on one end of an "internet relationship" and it is not fun when you find out.

smoothy · Jul 1, 2009, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Synnen

My question for those that only see it as cheating starting at #9----what about cybering? What about texts, phone calls, "emotional" adultery? Those people seldom actually have sex with the person they are "cheating" with, but there's still a line being crossed, right?

Depends... if its done with the knowledge and expectation that they WOULD get together to consummate it at an unknown time... then maybe. Otherwise it isn't. You can fool around verbally without it being cheating. If you want to consider that cheating then I've cheated with all of my sister-in-laws, in front of their mother, in front of their husbands, in front of my wife, and even alone with them... but there was never any expectation that anyone would do anything. Even though we did get graphic joking around.

But then, none of my inlaws are paranoid or have low self esteme. Hell everyone gets a good laugh when I grab a handfull of butt and comment , "oh this is too soft, you need to exercise more" . Or "you need some more padding in this bra, I couldn't find your boobs", they joke about lets whip it out ans see what you have.. etc...

I know a few women in this thread would totally freak out in that situation. My wife knows we are just kidding around and so do they. And flirting is not at all he motive in this example.

Mymama · Jul 1, 2009, 10:00 AM

In #8 we sometimes are thinking of different people when we have sex. I think that is what keeps the fire going SOMETIMES, not all the time. Men beat off to porn, what is the diff there in #7. In #9 the lips of the man should only be on the (lips) of his wife. He could still be thinking of the bar girl.. How are we to know what is inside of our husbands head. Again he COULD BE FANTASIZING. I think #9 and #10 are off limits...

Synnen · Jul 1, 2009, 10:02 AM

The point there, Smoothy, is not that there's a lack of self-esteem involved---but that there's good, open communication.

I flirt all the time--but I don't do anythign my husband would be ashamed of me doing, or that would hurt him.

I know which things those are because we communicate.

I don't think intent is the issue--it's that some people just have different expectations of behaviour in their significant other than other people do. As long as there is communication about what is and is not acceptable, where's the issue?

smoothy · Jul 1, 2009, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Synnen

The point there, Smoothy, is not that there's a lack of self-esteem involved---but that there's good, open communication.

I flirt all the time--but I don't do anythign my husband would be ashamed of me doing, or that would hurt him.

I know which things those are because we communicate.

I don't think intent is the issue--it's that some people just have different expectations of behaviour in their significant other than other people do. As long as there is communication about what is and is not acceptable, where's the issue?

And the people with self esteme issues have to own up to their problems and do something about it. Rather that transmit their own deficiencies on others and expect them to conform to their distorted views.

Jealousy, low self esteme, and other issues (such as paranoia, or shyness) can't be treated until that person acknowledges it, takes ownership of it, and works hard to improve the condition.

Some people just expect everyone else to conform to what they expect everyone should do. And that's neither healthy, nor right. Because it's the easy exit for them. They do not wish to do the hard work to improve their condition, preferring to dominate someone else so they don't have to face their problems.

After all, as I have previously mentioned... one persons rights end when the other persons begins. And I believe those rights are sacred.

shazamataz · Jul 1, 2009, 10:17 AM

What if both people agree that simple flirting is taking it too far?

I thought with flirting we were talking about in a bar without the persons wife/husband being there?

I don't have a problem with my partner hugging his female friends or having a general 'flirting' conversation but with an unknown girl in a bar yes I would have a problem. I don't think that's a self esteem issue, I take it more as 'why would he want to be flirting with someone else when he is committed to me?'

smoothy · Jul 1, 2009, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by shazamataz

What if both people agree that simple flirting is taking it too far?

I thought with flirting we were talking about in a bar without the persons wife/husband being there?

I don't have a problem with my partner hugging his female friends or having a general 'flirting' conversation but with an unknown girl in a bar yes I would have a problem. I don't think that's a self esteem issue, I take it more as 'why would he want to be flirting with someone else when he is commited to me?'

Aha... but if you aren't there, then how do you know that its flirting, and not just being sociable? I've seen women that got really *itchy if I talked to a female... yet they felt they could talk to however many guys they felt like...

If both are that paranoid about a taliban description of flirting then I forcast a painfully dull marriage based on the personality type.

And while you would have him striking up a conversation with a female being flirting... then how would you feel if YOU were prohibited from talking to any other guys outside of those you have to work with? And why would that be different? Reversing the roles is a great way to see when something is unreasonible.

shazamataz · Jul 1, 2009, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by smoothy

Aha...but if you aren't there, then how do you know that its flirting, and no being sociable? I've seen women that got really *itchy if I talked to a female....yet they felt they could talk to however many guys they felt like...

If both are that paranoid about a taliban description of flirting then I forcast a painfully dull marriage based on the personality type.

And while you would have him striking up a conversation with a female.... how would you feel if YOU were prohibited from talking to any other guys outside of those you have to work with? And why would that be different? Reversing the roles is a great way to see when something is unreasonible.

You do have a good point, I see a diference between just chatting and flirting though. Chatting to another girl would be fine, my partner goes to a lot of car shows and often talks to girls about cars, outright flirting would be a no-no for me though.

I don't have a problem if other people do it differently and are happy to let their partners flirt if they know that's as far as it goes but I just can't seem to get my head around it personally.

I don't know if I am old fashioned or have self esteem isuues like you said but that is just how I have always seen it.