[InfoJunkie4Life]

Thanks... I've heard it before and have some philosophy background from college... I choose to remain inconclusive.

[Clough]

Hi again, InfoJunkie4Life!

It does make for a good practice in debate though, if someone wants to get into that kind of thing. There are larger topics that aren't as easy to swallow and swim in...

Thanks!

[InfoJunkie4Life]

Agreed... time to tackle plato...

I like a challenge. I prefer to read completed argument similar to those about Socrates in Plato's dialogues. Then I take notes on each part of the argument... like a flow chart.

Then I critique the argument. Just for fun.

The more info in the argument, the more of a challenge, its hard to keep your mind on every step of a proof.

[TUT317]

The answer to the problem.'A Tree in the Forest' is that when something makes a noise e.g. a tree falling, then according to Berkeley no noise is produced. What is produced are sound waves, which in essence is air vibrating. This is not a noise, something is only a noise if there exists a living creature with an ear ( ear drum and various tiny bones and fluid) which serve to pick up the vibrations. What is also required is a brain to interpret what is coming out of the ear. Naturally brains and ears tend to be found together.

The conclusion is that unless there is some reasonably advanced living creature with ears to pick up the vibrations, then no noise is produced when a tree falls. When we are talking about noise we really mean EXPERIENCED NOISE.

[Clough]

Hi, TUT317!

Then it's still a matter of definition then. Correct?

Thanks!

[TUT317]

Hi, Clough.

In a word,Yes!

[phlanx]

The tree falling only makes a sound when all things in the universe are a constant.

If the laws of physics can be broken or bent, then the sound or lack of, of a tree falling can also be changed

Given that all we know up to date suggest the law of physics cannot be broken, it safe to assume the tree would make a sound every time

However, mathematics also teech us that nothing improbable just highly improbable

Besides, if a tree fell and didn't make a sound, who would believe you :)

[TUT317]

Hello Phlanx,
The laws of physics can be broken. If I can conceive of some physical occurrence behaving in a way that we don't normally expect then for all intention purpose the law is not absolute.
We cannot prove any physical law with certainty but we can disprove with certainty.

For example, when a tree falls in the forest I can easily conceive the noise being made is the sound of a piano playing.

Why do we expect to hear a cracking or crashing sound when a tree falls? As Hume says, it is just custom or habit. There is no logical necessity involved when we say that A causes B. Whenever we seen an event such as a tree falling we EXPECT to hear the appropriate noise.