[forafriend]

Mother provides full-time home and care for minor child. Father moves to another state, provides no care (maybe buys some care items for child but no legal arrangement). Father is legal father on birth certficate, never married, no legal custody agreement has been made. He takes child with permission to state far away for the summer. Now tells mom that he will be keeping the child for months or a year. Mom does not agree, but father will not send the child back. What legal course does mother have? Thank you.

[stinawords]

The mother will have to get a lawyer and a good one. Because there was no formal custody order the father has equal rights to keep his kid(s).

[Fr_Chuck]

Mother has to get an attorney and file for a custody agreement. That is the problem, She made several errors
1. never got a custody agreement
2. never got a child support agreement
3. let the child go without anything in writing what so ever.

*** The father does not have to by law ( legally) pay anything until there is a child support agreement in place, before that it is only a moral issue for not paying.

The father at this point could even file for the mother to have to pay him child support.

Being married has no issue on this, since he is listed as father on birth certificate

[rookie231]

What state are you in?

Check your state laws, as some states still give mother sole custody in an unmarried situation until Father files for paternity/DNA/Court order. Father on BC means nothing towards custody/child support in many states, and you can file an emergency order, or again, state specific, this could be construed as parental kidnapping as you are being deprived your right of custody and visitation, by the children not returning from a vacation. BUT, since you agreed to the vacation for the summer, this could not be used as an argument unless they are not returned at that time.

He has no legal obligation to provide support until it is court ordered along with his paternity/DNA, as there was no marriage.

[forafriend]

What state are you in?

Check your state laws, as some states still give mother sole custody in an unmarried situation until Father files for paternity/DNA/Court order. Father on BC means nothing towards custody/child support in many states, and you can file an emergency order, or again, state specific, this could be construed as parental kidnapping as you are being deprived your right of custody and visitation, by the children not returning from a vacation. BUT, since you agreed to the vacation for the summer, this could not be used as an argument unless they are not returned at that time.

He has no legal obligation to provide support until it is court ordered along with his paternity/DNA, as there was no marriage.

State is MO

[forafriend]

Mother has to get an attorney and file for a custody agreement. That is the problem, She made several errors
1. never got a custody agreement
2. never got a child support agreement
3. let the child go without anything in writing what so ever.

*** The father does not have to by law ( legally) pay anything untill there is a child support agreement in place, before that it is only a moral issue for not paying.

The father at this point could even file for the mother to have to pay him child support.

Being married has no issue on this, since he is listed as father on birth certificate

Single working mom barely gets by, cannot afford atty, this is why no legal agreements were ever made. Looking now for help with legal aid. Father doesn't pay support and moved out of state, couldn't that be construed as some type of abandonment?

[stinawords]

No abandonment. As already said he was never ordered to pay support therefore he does not owe support. Does the father have a lawyer? If he does and she dosen't then she will loose almost for certain that's the general rule. If you do want to read more on abandonment then you can look at the sticky at the top of the forum because many, many, many people make the same mistake.

[jenniepepsi]

It didn't cost me to do any of the court proceedings for child support/custody. But I am in Arizona. So that may be different for you. I would find out how much it will cost you to do these things.

And while its not illigal, a judge usually does not look kindly upon a man who does something like this.

[Synnen]

it didnt cost me to do any of the court proceedings for child support/custody. but i am in arizona. so that may be diffrent for you. i would find out how much it will cost you to do these things.

and while its not illigal, a judge usually does not look kindly apon a man who does something like this.

I'd like to point out that if the man who did this feels it is in the child's best interest (child left alone too often, mother not providing a stable home environment, mean boyfriends staying over, whatever), the court may very well look FAVORABLY on the father who does this---because he was doing it in the best interest of the child.

In ANY child custody case, I recommend a lawyer. You're shooting yourself in the foot not to have one.

[forafriend]

No abandonment. As already said he was never ordered to pay support therefore he does not owe support. Does the father have a lawyer? If he does and she dosen't then she will loose almost for certain that's the general rule. If you do want to read more on abandonment then you can look at the sticky at the top of the forum because many, many, many people make the same mistake.

I will read it, thank you for the advice.

[s_cianci]

How old is the child in question? Without an actual custody order in place and with this person established as the legal father, then practically speaking Mom's hands are tied. She can file a motion for custody but she'd be dealing across two different distant states and trying to coordinate everything with everyone's cooperation in order to compel the father to return the child to Mom is a losing battle.

[rookie231]

State is MO

Missouri still favors the Mom as having sole custody in unmarried cases until paternity established and there is much State Supreme Court precedence around this. August 1st, no return, file contempt, ask for an order to return children immediately, AND that his visitation rights be suspended until a hearing around what has taken place.

I would file immediately at that date, as there is a case pending in the state that may change the way courts are allowed to view and respond in these cases.

[cdad]

What state are you in?

Check your state laws, as some states still give mother sole custody in an unmarried situation until Father files for paternity/DNA/Court order. Father on BC means nothing towards custody/child support in many states, and you can file an emergency order, or again, state specific, this could be construed as parental kidnapping as you are being deprived your right of custody and visitation, by the children not returning from a vacation. BUT, since you agreed to the vacation for the summer, this could not be used as an argument unless they are not returned at that time.

He has no legal obligation to provide support until it is court ordered along with his paternity/DNA, as there was no marriage.

Can you quote ANY state that upon signing the birth certificate doesn't acknowlage the father ? As a legal father there are rights that go with it until a court says different.
Also your statement is False as far as this being anything close to parental kidnapping. If he were hiding the child it might be but it sounds like the OP knows where they are.

[rookie231]

You are kidding right?

In Missouri and many states, being on the BC AND signing an acknowledgment of paternity, means the man is able to petition the Court to establish visitation and custody rights through DNA test, as well as child support. Merely being on the BC initially give him NO right to custody or visitation and mother is considered to have sole custody in the mean time. Here is a statute from Ohio, and a Missouri court case where the father lost because he had no established his legal rights to child.



Ohio Revised Code 3109.042 provides that an unmarried female who gives birth to a child is the sole residential parent and legal custodian of the child until a court of competent jurisdiction issues an order designating another person as the residential parent and legal custodian. This means that the unmarried mother has SOLE CUSTODY of the child. If paternity is established by the father, and the father files a petition in court requesting custody (allocation of parental rights and responsibilities) Ohio law requires the court to “treat the mother and father as standing upon an equality when making the designation”. This means that the court cannot give a preference to either parent based solely upon gender. However, if the mother and father cease being a couple, the mother often becomes the primary caregiver of the child while the father establishes paternity and/or




Brown v Shannahan- Missouri 2004
In this case, the parents were not married and paternity was not established at the time of mother's relocation to Virginia. Thus, father had no legal rights until the judgment establishing his paternity was entered. Mother's voluntary relocation prior to father's initiation of the instant proceeding did not require court approval."

Also, since in Missouri THIS father is detaining child, creating intent to deprive the mother of her custody rights.

Parental kidnapping--penalty.
565.153. 1. In the absence of a court order determining rights of custody or visitation to a child, a person having a right of custody of the child commits the crime of parental kidnapping if he removes, takes, detains, conceals, or entices away that child within or without the state, without good cause, and with the intent to deprive the custody right of another person or a public agency also having a custody right to that child.
2. Parental kidnapping is a class D felony, unless committed by detaining or concealing the whereabouts of the child for:
(1) Not less than sixty days but not longer than one hundred nineteen days, in which case, the crime is a class C felony;
(2) Not less than one hundred twenty days, in which case, the crime is a class B felony.
3. A subsequently obtained court order for custody or visitation shall not affect the application of this section.

[rookie231]

Knowing where the children are does not eliminate the ability to enforce this statute anymore.

[cdad]

You are kidding right?

In Missouri and many states, being on the BC AND signing an acknowledgment of paternity, means the man is able to petition the Court to establish visitation and custody rights through DNA test, as well as child support. Merely being on the BC initially give him NO right to custody or visitation and mother is considered to have sole custody in the mean time. Here is a statute from Ohio, and a Missouri court case where the father lost because he had no established his legal rights to child.



Ohio Revised Code 3109.042 provides that an unmarried female who gives birth to a child is the sole residential parent and legal custodian of the child until a court of competent jurisdiction issues an order designating another person as the residential parent and legal custodian. This means that the unmarried mother has SOLE CUSTODY of the child. If paternity is established by the father, and the father files a petition in court requesting custody (allocation of parental rights and responsibilities) Ohio law requires the court to “treat the mother and father as standing upon an equality when making the designation”. This means that the court cannot give a preference to either parent based solely upon gender. However, if the mother and father cease being a couple, the mother often becomes the primary caregiver of the child while the father establishes paternity and/or




Brown v Shannahan- Missouri 2004
In this case, the parents were not married and paternity was not established at the time of mother's relocation to Virginia. Thus, father had no legal rights until the judgment establishing his paternity was entered. Mother's voluntary relocation prior to father's initiation of the instant proceeding did not require court approval."

Also, since in Missouri THIS father is detaining child, creating intent to deprive the mother of her custody rights.

Parental kidnapping--penalty.
565.153. 1. In the absence of a court order determining rights of custody or visitation to a child, a person having a right of custody of the child commits the crime of parental kidnapping if he removes, takes, detains, conceals, or entices away that child within or without the state, without good cause, and with the intent to deprive the custody right of another person or a public agency also having a custody right to that child.
2. Parental kidnapping is a class D felony, unless committed by detaining or concealing the whereabouts of the child for:
(1) Not less than sixty days but not longer than one hundred nineteen days, in which case, the crime is a class C felony;
(2) Not less than one hundred twenty days, in which case, the crime is a class B felony.
3. A subsequently obtained court order for custody or visitation shall not affect the application of this section.

The first Ohio revision is very odd because in effect it strips away any rights a father may have upon being aknowlaged to a point where it doesn't matter. Also it was written as only a small part of a much larger section. Its part of instructions to the courts which clearly show gender bias. It also in essence reduces a birth certificates value to nil. The sections that apply to this revision have with it rules that govern for the care of a child upon the death of the mother. Im not sure that it's a stand alone law as its being quoted. It appears to be in the scope of law that pertains to something else.

As far as the parental kidnapping goes the mother gave permission for the child to go to the father. So if he has proof and reason to believe that the child should stay then that matter is up for the courts. The wording isn't clear on that section as to permission being given or not.

[rookie231]

Missouri and much of the Midwest is very similar, unfortunately, as the BC and AOP, merely give you the right to pursue custody/visitation through the court and pay support. Without the court order and DNA, unmarried fathers are rendered powerless as have been tested in many relocation cases.

There are a couple cases challenging this in the fall that will be interesting to watch as state does seem to still be "tilted" against fathers as a general group.