[pare_john]

Hello,

What is the best grout to use for a floor tile spaced 1/4" the tiles are 13 X 13 Porcelain. Should i use a modified ot is unmodified ok?

Also for a shower. spaced 1/8" 10 X 13 ceramic.

thank you,

[ballengerb1]

I know your question asks about grout but I am wondering if you actually meant the thinset in which you set your tile. If you meant the thinset then use unmodified thinset.

[pare_john]

No I am talking about grout.

Also how can you say to use unmodified thin set without knowing the substrate for the floor tiles?

Thanks

[ballengerb1]

OK valid point but since you bring this up how come you did not give us the info before or now? Modified thinset is not really thinset, more of a glue adhesive and it air dries. A 13x13 tile will not allow air drying. Can you tell us more about the installlation?

[pare_john]

Well I am asking about grout, not thinset.

My tiles are already laid using an unmodified thinset onto the ditra system.

My shower is not done yet but from what you are saying is that since my shower is 10 X 13 tiles I should use an unmodified thinset? Kind of goes against everything I have heard.

I would just like to know the best grout to use. I am assuming cause I have 1/4" spacing that I will want to go with a sanded grout. but I have seen both modified and unmodified grout, which is better for my application?

Which would be the best grout for my shower which is 10 X 13 ceramic with 1/8" gap?

thank you for the help

[JazMan]

Ballenger,

Since it is obvious that you have a very limited knowledge concerning tile issues, will you please refrain from answering tile questions, and this isn't the first time of course. Sorry, you can't be good at everything.

Jaz

[Bljack]

My shower is not done yet but from what you are saying is that since my shower is 10 X 13 tiles i should use an unmodified thinset? Kind of goes against everything I have heard.

Yes, stick with modified thinset unless you used Kerdi for your walls, then use unmodified.

I would just like to know the best grout to use... but I have seen both modified and unmodified grout, which is better for my application?

The short answer is any modified grout will do. There is no "special need" for unmodified grout with Schluter products and my only guess as to why you even have an unmodified grout available in your area is for outdoor applications given the higher temp swings you experience up there where you would want the richer latex content provided by the liquid polymer vs. the spray dried polymer in the modifed grouts. I don't think I could even find an unmodifed grout if I drove 100 miles in any direction from where I live. It can get even more confusing when there are manufacturers that make a modified grout and then also have an additive, such as laticrete's 1776 additive that gets mixed into their standard series of already modified grouts. If that is available to you, the nice thing about that is it ensures color consistancy by eliminating the variable of whatever is in your tap water (chlorine, salts, metals) and how they react with the grout components, as well as additional moisture retention agents that slow the curing resulting in a stronger cure.

Ask someone who makes the best grout and it's like who makes a better truck, Ford or Chevy, though I think we'll all agree that Custom's Polyblend has the most issues with color variation in their darker colors. Beyond the choices of your basic modified grouts, there are the designer grouts. They are not cheap, but I have always loved working with them. Tec's Accucolor XT and Custom's Prism Grouts offer a grout that cures so dense that they won't even take a sealer and great color uniformity. Both offer outstanding stain resistance. Laticrete has Permacolor grout which in my opinion, is the easiest of all of the designer grouts at clean up, is the least particular with water variation when mixing multiple batches, best color uniformity, and is good for joints from 1/16" up to 1/2" so depending on the size of your bath, one bag might be enough for everything.

Lastly, there is a product called "grout boost", been on the market for about a year now and though most modifed grouts will say mix only with water, grout boost was specifically designed to be mixed with modifed grouts without messing up the existing chemistry of the grout and when allowed to cure for 10 days without being exposed to moisture, offers a 20 year warranty against both oil and water based stains.

Just wanted to give you the info on some higher performance options. If you pick a grout from Laticrete or Tec Specialty, you also have a good chance of being able to get a grout color matched 100% silicone which will do much better in the shower than an an acrylic or siliconized latex color matched caulk.

i am assuming cause I have 1/4" spacing that I will want to go with a sanded grout...Which would be the best grout for my shower which is 10 X 13 ceramic with 1/8" gap?

thank you for the help

Yes, for your floor, you will need to use sanded. For your walls, 1/8" is generally installers choice, but since tiles will vary slightly in size, you will have some joints slightly proud of the 1/8" limit and therefor sanded will be a better performing choice. The sand content makes the sanded grout less sticky than unsanded grout due to not having as rich of a portland cement content so on walls, I like to mix in a handful of the unsanded grout with the sanded to boost the portland cement content. You get the same color since the colorant proportions don't change and you have less falling from the float or the tile face as you go over the wall with the better cling you get from the added portland cement.

[ballengerb1]

Jazman, is there a factual error in my questions or answer? If so please explain. As an Expert, we commit to answer all unanswered questions in our area. If you are interested in becoming the tile expert just answer all unanswered questions ever day and build a reputation that supports an expert status. The moderators of the site will eventually contact you regarding becoming an expert.

[Bljack]

Jazman, is there a factual error in my questions or answer? If so please explain....


"I know your question asks about grout but I am wondering if you actually meant the thinset in which you set your tile. If you meant the thinset then use unmodified thinset."

"Modified thinset is not really thinset, more of a glue adhesive and it air dries. A 13x13 tile will not allow air drying."

There are very few cases where an unmodified thinset are used over a modifed thinset. Ditra is one of them. Modifed thinsets are portland cement based setting products and cure by chemical reaction. Take any modifed thinset, fill the left over in the bucket with water when you are done and it will still turn into a rock because it is a cement based product. With large tiles or when going over a mostly impervious surface like tile over tile, you might need to wait an extra day before grouting. But to confuse modifed thinsets with "premixed" thinsets in a bucket, or mastics, well that's just wrong and misleading.

As an Expert, we commit to answer all unanswered questions in our area. If you are interested in becoming the tile expert just answer all unanswered questions ever day and build a reputation that supports an expert status. The moderators of the site will eventually contact you regarding becoming an expert.

Unfortunately, having the "expert status" will give a wrong answer more weight in the eyes of someone seeking advice. Along with the "Expert" status should come the responsibility to not answer questions unless it is known the answer based on the facts provided by the person seeking advice is 100% accurate. Having the responsibility to throw an answer into an unanswered post because one has been knighted as an "expert" is the biggest disservice an expert can do. The correct response from an expert would be to post "I'm not sure, but I know (abc) and (xyz) are very knowledgeable in this field so hang in there while I send them a private message to direct them to your question.

Unfortunately, this thread has become pathetically derailed and once again, the short answer to the question is feel free to use whichever modified grout is available to you. ;)

[ballengerb1]

Thanks for the explanation. I did confuse modified thinset with the pre-mixed in a bucket.

[Bljack]

I did leave out one sentence when as I was typing, I cut a section and forgot to paste it back in. The reason for the extended wait time prior to grouting when using large tiles over impervious surfaces like tile over tile is the need to allow the latex component to dry out, but we're only talking an extra day or so of set time prior to grouting, not waiting forever like with mastic.

[pare_john]

Yes, stick with modified thinset unless you used Kerdi for your walls, then use unmodified.



The short answer is any modified grout will do. There is no "special need" for unmodified grout with Schluter products and my only guess as to why you even have an unmodified grout available in your area is for outdoor applications given the higher temp swings you experience up there where you would want the richer latex content provided by the liquid polymer vs. the spray dried polymer in the modifed grouts. I don't think I could even find an unmodifed grout if I drove 100 miles in any direction from where I live. It can get even more confusing when there are manufacturers that make a modified grout and then also have an additive, such as laticrete's 1776 additive that gets mixed into their standard series of already modified grouts. If that is available to you, the nice thing about that is it ensures color consistancy by eliminating the variable of whatever is in your tap water (chlorine, salts, metals) and how they react with the grout components, as well as additional moisture retention agents that slow the curing resulting in a stronger cure.

Ask someone who makes the best grout and it's like who makes a better truck, Ford or Chevy, though I think we'll all agree that Custom's Polyblend has the most issues with color variation in their darker colors. Beyond the choices of your basic modified grouts, there are the designer grouts. They are not cheap, but I have always loved working with them. Tec's Accucolor XT and Custom's Prism Grouts offer a grout that cures so dense that they won't even take a sealer and great color uniformity. Both offer outstanding stain resistance. Laticrete has Permacolor grout which in my opinion, is the easiest of all of the designer grouts at clean up, is the least particular with water variation when mixing multiple batches, best color uniformity, and is good for joints from 1/16" up to 1/2" so depending on the size of your bath, one bag might be enough for everything.

Lastly, there is a product called "grout boost", been on the market for about a year now and though most modifed grouts will say mix only with water, grout boost was specifically designed to be mixed with modifed grouts without messing up the existing chemistry of the grout and when allowed to cure for 10 days without being exposed to moisture, offers a 20 year warranty against both oil and water based stains.

Just wanted to give you the info on some higher performance options. If you pick a grout from Laticrete or Tec Specialty, you also have a good chance of being able to get a grout color matched 100% silicone which will do much better in the shower than an an acrylic or siliconized latex color matched caulk.



Yes, for your floor, you will need to use sanded. For your walls, 1/8" is generally installers choice, but since tiles will vary slightly in size, you will have some joints slightly proud of the 1/8" limit and therefor sanded will be a better performing choice. The sand content makes the sanded grout less sticky than unsanded grout due to not having as rich of a portland cement content so on walls, I like to mix in a handful of the unsanded grout with the sanded to boost the portland cement content. You get the same color since the colorant proportions don't change and you have less falling from the float or the tile face as you go over the wall with the better cling you get from the added portland cement.

Thanks for the great help. That is the answer I was looking for... informed.

Do you think for my shower a 1/4" spacing would be better. Remember they are 10X13 and will be staggered.

thank you,

[Bljack]

Grout size is up to you. What's the exact sizes of the walls? What is the exact size of the tile? That 10x 13 might be 10 x 13, or it might be 9 13/16 x 13 1/8" I've got a few different design programs I could plug some stuff into to give you an idea. They even let me switch layouts to metric which will come in handy if I ever move way North. ;)

[pare_john]

I am north lol

The tiles are a true 10 X 13. Can you show be what it would look like staggered with a 1/4" gap. the one side wall is 32" wide by 7.5 ft high.

Thanks

[Bljack]

Just to be sure I give you the right idea, it's 7.5' from the shower pan deck up or from the floor up? 7.5' from the floor up to a soffit over the shower stall with light cans? You are going around the walls, half way-ish up outside the shower? 32" Neo Angle pan? 32" by some other dimension(s) with 3 shower walls?

Just one wall, referenced out from the wrong perspective won't do anything for you. One wall or 5, takes only about 2 minutes longer but gives a tremendous amount of extra detail.

[pare_john]

I have already figures out my layment.

Thanks though

[Bljack]

OK, you're welcome, though. :)