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Clough · Jun 29, 2009, 11:37 PM

If there are any things that are going on negatively in your marriage, would you mind sharing them here?

Thanks!

Clough · Jun 29, 2009, 11:47 PM

I can see that you're modifying a post either on this thread or on another one, ryans2fast4u.

ryans2fast4u · Jun 29, 2009, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Clough

I can see that you're modifying a post either on this thread or on another one, ryans2fast4u.

I guess I can go in a little more depth (I modified the post about the marriage if you haven't seen it)

I gave up on the idea of being in love with someone...

I couldn't handle the constant jealousy, fear of them leaving, worrying, etc. so I found a good compliment and married her- never even said "I love you" because I didn't. I always thought that I naturally would over time though. My pastor also always said "love is an action, not a feeling". Now I believe she deserves better and I believe its worth the jealousy, fear and worrying... and its worth hoping for and waiting for someone even if the possibility of really falling in love with someone isn't real... Plus I'm still crazy about an ex, and you can't have a good marriage when you haven't gotten over previous relationships.

Seemed like a good idea at the time- but as I said before, we get along fine but we're pretty much "roomates" and friends. The most accurate response is probably simply youth and naivity. Immaturity isn't an age, and some of us can be very mature professionally... but very immature interpersonally. I would put me in this basket.

Clough · Jun 29, 2009, 11:59 PM

Are you afraid to tell someone that you love them?

ryans2fast4u · Jun 30, 2009, 12:03 AM

I've told it to two people before... but of course I'm very reserved because I don't handle rejection (or even thje belief of rejection even if it isn't real)

ryans2fast4u · Jun 30, 2009, 12:15 AM

Thinking through this just makes me really realize how useless I really am... I really don't have a place, and I can't figure out what's wrong with me that I am unable to be a good friend and a good lover, and a good person. Your right about what you said with the water- if I cannot be a half decent person, how can I expect to surround myself with half decent people?

Clough · Jun 30, 2009, 12:15 AM

I think that we need to work on some of the fears that you have.

I never had a problem telling my mother that I loved her. I just couldn't bring myself to tell my dad that I loved him until the last year before his death.

Now, with many people I always take advantage of telling them that I love them. We never really know if it may be the last opportunity that we have to say it.

With my mother, especially in her last years, we would always say to each other, "I love you and I'll see you later". We didn't say goodbye.

"I love you and I'll see you later" were the last things that we said to each other before I watched her die a few days later.

Hey also, telling someone that you love them is very much like asking someone for a date. We're going to get rejection. It's a part of life. If we doon't take the risks that are worth taking in life, we become stagnant, sterile and don't really progress ever onward and upward the way that we should.

When is the last time that you told your wife that you loved her?

Thanks!

Clough · Jun 30, 2009, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by ryans2fast4u

Thinking through this just makes me really realize how useless I really am... I really don't have a place, and I can't figure out whats wrong with me that I am unable to be a good friend and a good lover, and a good person.

Now you're beating yourself up. Why? What you say isn't true. I've done it many times myself. You haven't yet commented on the "choises" part I put in an earlier post. It was almost like you didn't read it. Although, maybe you did.

I have some very strong things to add to it that might make a difference for you. I learned the lesson a long time ago...

Thanks!

Clough · Jun 30, 2009, 12:30 AM

I'm hoping for a response from you yet tonight, ryans2fast4u! You're obviously depressed. So am I!

I would like to help you...

Thanks!

ryans2fast4u · Jun 30, 2009, 12:32 AM

Your probably going to laugh at this, but I've never asked anyone on a date either... haha I was always afraid to, so I just got every one to the point where the question was raised "so we're exclusively dating, right?". It's almost humourous how far and creative one can go just to avoid rejection.

So as I bet you can determine from that, I don't take risks.

As far as my wife is concerned, I have never told her I loved her, even prior to marriage. I know it bothers her, I just haven't been able to say it because I still feel that love is reserved for someone else and until I can get over that, it will be tough for me to move on. I do LOVE her even if it's not necessarily romantically- I really do want to see her happy and cared for, and I would gladly step aside for another man as long as he treated her right... because of that I know I should say it and show it because its only fair to her.

Clough · Jun 30, 2009, 12:35 AM

Let's see...

Married for two years. You know that she would like you to say it.

What do you mean by the following statement, please?

... I still feel that love is reserved for someone else...

Thanks!

ryans2fast4u · Jun 30, 2009, 12:37 AM

[QUOTE=Clough;1827043]Now you're beating yourself up. Why? What you say isn't true. I've done it many times myself. You haven't yet commented on the "choises" part I put in an earlier post. It was almost like you didn't read it. Although, maybe you did.

To me, a big part of life is about making choices, dealing with the cards that I've been dealt and cost and benefit. I don't mean cost and benefit in the sense of money but about the choices that we make in the way that we think and for what we do.
[QUOTE]

I presume this is the "choices" part you mentioned?

I don't make choices. I want to, but ultimately I choose what I think I'm supposed to choose, instead of what I want to choose- I avoid the risk. I feel like I've done that so long that I almost don't know how to have my own wants or interests anymore- like I just have to do exactly what is expected of me... whether that's my career, my personal life, my marriage, or anything in between. I can't even choose where to go to dinner at night- even though I get a hard time about things that simple- when I do choose, I make the choice that I think others want (regardless of whether my assessment is in fact accurate)

ryans2fast4u · Jun 30, 2009, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Clough

Let's see...

Married for two years. You know that she would like you to say it.

What do you mean by the following statement, please?

Thanks!

I mean I'm still not over an ex-girlfriend that I feel I truly loved. I know this sounds foolish, especially since my wife really is just about perfect- nice, caring, great with kids, incredibly attractive, intelligent, active - I just don't have as much control over those emotions as I thought I did.

(and this is not something I talk about readily... I guess there are benefits to talking to a stranger- although I do not feel like I am talking to a stranger, so I thank you for that)

Clough · Jun 30, 2009, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by ryans2fast4u

I mean I'm still not over an ex-girlfriend that I feel I truly loved. I know this sounds foolish, especially since my wife really is just about perfect- nice, caring, great with kids, incredibly attractive, intelligent, active - I just don't have as much control over those emotions as I thought I did.

(and this is not something I talk about readily... I guess there are benefits to talking to a stranger- although I do not feel like I am talking to a stranger, so I thank you for that)

Yes, I don't feel like I'm talking to a stranger with you, either!
I have loved many women in my life. Do I still love some of them? Yes. Do some of them still love me? Yes.

But, for one reason or another, things just didn't work out...

Is it okay to still be in love with an ex or ex's? Absolutely!

My ex-wife makes the best lasagna that I've ever tasted! She is the mother of our children. One of my ex-girlfriends told me a number of years ago, the she and her husband never have the deep conversations like she and I did.

You need to give yourself permission to take risks...

Thanks!

Clough · Jun 30, 2009, 12:57 AM

[quote=Clough

Now you're beating yourself up. Why? What you say isn't true. I've done it many times myself. You haven't yet commented on the "choises" part I put in an earlier post. It was almost like you didn't read it. Although, maybe you did.

To me, a big part of life is about making choices, dealing with the cards that I've been dealt and cost and benefit. I don't mean cost and benefit in the sense of money but about the choices that we make in the way that we think and for what we do.
[quote]

I presume this is the "choices" part you mentioned?

I don't make choices. I want to, but ultimately I choose what I think I'm supposed to choose, instead of what I want to choose- I avoid the risk. I feel like I've done that so long that I almost don't know how to have my own wants or interests anymore- like I just have to do exactly what is expected of me... whether that's my career, my personal life, my marriage, or anything in between. I can't even choose where to go to dinner at night- even though I get a hard time about things that simple- when I do choose, I make the choice that I think others want (regardless of whether my assessment is in fact accurate)

I'm going to have to disagree.

You are making the choices...

Have you ever lost a job where you were employed?

Have you ever applied for a job and then not gotten it?

Do you ever try to read into what others say or what you think they are thinking?

Thanks!

ryans2fast4u · Jun 30, 2009, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Clough

Yes, I don't feel like I'm talking to a stranger with you, either!
I have loved many women in my life. Do I still love some of them? Yes. Do some of them still love me? Yes.

But, for one reason or another, things just didn't work out...

Is it okay to still be in love with an ex or ex's? Absolutely!

My ex-wife makes the best lasagna that I've ever tasted! She is the mother of our children. One of my ex-girlfriends told me a number of years ago, the she and her husband never have the deep conversations like she and I did.

You need to give yourself permission to take risks...

Thanks!

Do you know why I broke up with my ex?

I broke up with her because she was a in a 6 year program in school and I was in a 4 year program in school and I didn't think I could handle a long distance relationship, nor would anyone approve of my staying somewhere for a girl. So I took the less risky route and left her. Justified it by thinking I'm young and should try being single while I'm in school to figure myself out. All I figured out was that I was dating a different girl a week later and never lost the feelings for my ex. I look back at things like this and just want to hit myself upside the head... but there is no use regretting the decisions of our past. Learn from them and move on I like to think. Sometimes easier said than done!

So this sounds almost funny, but how do you give yourself permission to take risks... just tell yoruself next time you have hesitation that it's OK to take a risk and it's OK if you fail?

ryans2fast4u · Jun 30, 2009, 01:07 AM

You are making the choices...

Have you ever lost a job where you were employed?
No (fortunately)

Have you ever applied for a job and then not gotten it?
Yes

Do you ever try to read into what others say or what you think they are thinking?
All the time- and I try to adjust myself/my behavior/my words accordingly.

I guess you are right about I am making choices. Maybe for the wrong reasons but I am making choices. My ex GFs for example were also choices. I may regret them, but they were choices I made in life. So you are accurate.

Clough · Jun 30, 2009, 01:10 AM

Thank you for trying to be open and proactive here, ryans2fast4u!

I'm going to leave for just a few minute, but I will return...

I have something very important that I would like to share with you.

It's something that my mother told to me many years ago. I've never forgotten it because it made such an impact on me.

Thanks!

Clough · Jun 30, 2009, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by ryans2fast4u

... but there is no use regretting the decisions of our past. learn from them and move on I like to think. sometimes easier said than done!

So this sounds almost funny, but how do you give yourself permission to take risks... just tell yoruself next time you have hesitation that it's OK to take a risk and it's OK if you fail?

You're exactly correct with those thoughts! Ever onward, ever upward!

Thanks!

ryans2fast4u · Jun 30, 2009, 01:14 AM

Thank you Clough- I appreciate your extensive attention and assistance. I know there are many other things you could be doing right now... (such as sleep for example- I know its late)

So certainly don't hesitate to leave any times you need to, as simply the amount of time and effort you have already put in to talking to me has been incredibly helpful.