[Northwind_Dagas]

I'm currently in a World Religions class at my university. On the first day, the instructor brought in an African fertility doll and passed it around the room. Before passing it, he said that it was believed by the African people who created it that by touching it and/or possessing it, a woman would become pregnant. I was amazed to see as it made its way around the room, many girls in class refused to touch it. I can only assume they were afraid that the doll would indeed cause them to become pregnant.

I find it interesting that so many would be fearful of the 'power' of an religious item from another culture/religion other than their own.

Would this indicate believe in the 'power' of their religion?
Would you be afraid of something like this?
If not a fertility doll, what about a doll that is said to cause a curse?
What about a Voodoo doll?

[31pumpkin]

To me it exemplifies how 80%+ of professors @ universities/colleges teach with a liberal philosophy.

Young people may not have the wisdom yet to recognize such things as being a superstition. And superstition is from the devil. Like the #13, most would choose to avoid it. I took a major exam once & was assigned to row 13 for the 2 days. I put it out of my head, knew I already prayed, even picked up a heads up penny getting gas that morning. That's it, I said. I only believe in good luck (or good fortune) Praise God... we prevailed!

You say "an African fertility doll" but from what religion is that? Voodoo? If it's Voodoo then that is why I give my $ and support to Christian missionaries in N.W. Africa, where Voodoo is precisely their religion.

Any religious item that suggests something negative (curses or something else) has no" power" & should be bound in the name of Jesus. Then you go your sweet way & pass the class too.

Voodoo is from a spirit of witchcraft. Just like "believing" in the pagan Halloween.
For a Christian, in particular, it should have no place in their life.

[Fr_Chuck]

Guess it also tells you which girls in class are having unprotected sex also

[NeedKarma]

We all have different levels of superstition, though I doubt it's from the devil, it's just an irrational fear.. or hope.

[31pumpkin]

I can certainly see the beneficial or hopeful side of someone wanting a "fertility" doll. That's cool, to each his or "her" own. I think they're praying to the wrong thing, but that's just my opinion. The objective probably is just to know that these beliefs exist.

SUPERSTITION is from a tormenting spirit (which acts on the emotions-fear is one)
That's from the Devil. Not to be taken lightly. Cleansing Stream Ministries-1999.

ISAIAH 2: 6-9, The Day of the Lord- You have abandoned your people, the house of Jacob. They are full of superstitions from the East; they practice divination like the Philistines and clasp hands with pagans. Their land is full of silver and gold; there is no end to their treasures. Their land is full of horses; there is no end to their chariots. Their land is full of idols; they bow down to the work of their hands, to what their fingers have made. So man will be brought low and mankind humbled- do not forgive them* (or do not raise them up).

Spirit of witchcraft- counterfeit, unclean spirit- Purpose is to dominate, manipulate, & control others. Entry points -through the occult. Involved with horoscope, palm readers, superstitions, mystical, communication with the dead/presence of departed loved ones, Esp, drugs, telepathy, & resistance /rebellion to authority.

The thing is what I was told is there aren't any "levels" to obedience. Disobedience to the Lord can always take one much further than they ever thought they'd go.

Just a little insight for the day. Now, what about the joke?
I've had a hysterectomy. So I guess I can rub all the fertility dolls but I'd still require a miraculous conception! I'll pass... lol.

[Northwind_Dagas]

SUPERSTITION is from a tormenting spirit (which acts on the emotions-fear is one)
That's from the Devil. Not to be taken lightly. Cleansing Stream Ministries-1999.

I'm going to have to disagree with your definition of superstition. The definition I most identify with is:

1. An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
2.

a. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
b. A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.
c. Idolatry.

Picking up a penny because it is 'heads side up' is also a superstition.
----------------------------------------------

The specific religion that the doll came from was not clear as we were discussing African religions in general.

To me it exemplifies how 80%+ of professors @ universities/colleges teach with a liberal philosophy.

How else would you teach a class on world religions?

[31pumpkin]

That's fine-how the dictionary describes superstition. Even one definition words it as "or faith in magic or chance" there. My definition is what the Faith says & I'm sure it is defining superstition in the spiritual realm. Even mental illness is a spiritual sickness. Many do not know that either. Maybe I'm a spirit-filled Pentacostal really.

Oh no, the instructors have to go with the flow & majority. It has to be for the public education system. This way it's all good & objective. But I wouldn't want to have to write a paper on the pros & cons of a subject as I just might have a very conservative point of view- too opinionated- & the professor doesn't like it. Oh boy, bad grade.

Yes, picking up a penny heads up is dumb. I saw the irony of it that day, so I picked it up. Your right. (My) life, success, happiness, health, love,etc. have nothing to do with luck. It has to do with the Lord's blessings & plan for one's life. But we like to say "good Luck" a lot. So to me that's basically what they're saying. It's a positive expression :)

[Starman]

I'm currently in a World Religions class at my university. On the first day, the instructor brought in an African fertility doll and passed it around the room. Before passing it, he said that it was believed by the African people who created it that by touching it and/or possessing it, a woman would become pregnant. I was amazed to see as it made its way around the room, many girls in class refused to touch it. I can only assume they were afraid that the doll would indeed cause them to become pregnant.

I find it interesting that so many would be fearful of the 'power' of an religious item from another culture/religion other than their own.

Would this indicate believe in the 'power' of their religion?
Would you be afraid of something like this?
If not a fertility doll, what about a doll that is said to cause a curse?
What about a Voodoo doll?

Not necessarily belief in the power of the item per se. Some Christians believe that such items can make them susceptible to demonic influences by serving as mediums or portals so they play it safe by keeping such items at a distance.

http://www.fillthevoid.org/Entertain...rangegods.html

[VBNomad]

Any religious item that suggests something negative (curses or something else) has no" power" & should be bound in the name of Jesus.

If something has no power, why would it need to be bound in the name of Jesus?

What do you mean by "bound"? That sounds like a magical act. A binding, as is often done in witchcraft.

[31pumpkin]

Yes, the word power should be clarified in that sentence, and "bound" also.

For instance... one is shown a voo-doo doll with the intended curse on "you". Since the prince of this world has already been judged-and voodoo is a spirit of witchcraft(evil) Then it has no power over the Christian. So, the best thing here for the Christian to do (since he is aware of the curse) is to cast out or bind and cast out the unclean spirit (the... devil) in the name of Jesus, and loosen the blessings of good fortune, protection, etc... (as to
Counter the curse)
As believers, we have the authority to trample on such things. Exact opposite of witchcraft. Like anti-witchcraft.

I might add that if the subject doesn't know about the intended curse- it still wouldn't effect him. Only because he sees it, he says the prayer for protection for comfort.

[VBNomad]

"Bind and cast out a spirit ... Exact opposite of witchcraft." I don't see it. What you are talking about is exactly witchcraft. Just because you use the name of Jesus, doesn't mean it's not a magical act. Just because you preceive what you are doing as trampling evil doesn't mean you are not working with the very unseen forces that witches work with.

[31pumpkin]

Say what? Of course-- Bind the Devil in the name of Jesus. Do you not know the things of God?
You really should. And not that I am attacked or influenced by the kingdom of darkness on a regular basis either-- but the Spiritual tools are there if needed!
My gosh VBNomad- it's the difference between good and evil!
What's good, hurting or healing?

[DrJ]

Ahhh... I see the ignorance still flows heavily in this forum.

Well I think "You all suck" and by "you," I mean "I" and by "all," I mean "am" and by "suck," I mean "cool"... so what I am really trying to say is that "I am cool" -- What kind of nonsense is that?

And what makes it okay to practice the good luck, or fun, side of superstition (or "The Devil" as it was put) but not the other side? I think the power of the heads up penny should be bound by Jesus.

Oh, and Voodoo is nowhere NEAR the prevailing religion in Africa LMAO!



Anyway, as for the original post here...

I think for many people, there is a common believe of good or positive power and, the opposite, evil or negative power. That power may manisfest itself through any medium. Although, I may not believe in the indiginous beliefs of Old Africa (where this doll was likely derived from), I do believe that it may harness a power. Therefore, even being male, I wouldn't want to touch it! Lol

[Morganite]

I'm currently in a World Religions class at my university. On the first day, the instructor brought in an African fertility doll and passed it around the room. Before passing it, he said that it was believed by the African people who created it that by touching it and/or possessing it, a woman would become pregnant. I was amazed to see as it made its way around the room, many girls in class refused to touch it. I can only assume they were afraid that the doll would indeed cause them to become pregnant.

I find it interesting that so many would be fearful of the 'power' of an religious item from another culture/religion other than their own.

Would this indicate believe in the 'power' of their religion?
Would you be afraid of something like this?
If not a fertility doll, what about a doll that is said to cause a curse?
What about a Voodoo doll?

Although one is inclined to believe that those who have entered university have abandoned irrational fear of alien religious artefacts, there seems yet to lurk in each of us some hesitancy tobe in too proximity to things we do not understand, and which we might have some reason, however remote, to fear.

For myself, having been freed from supersition at an early age, there are no religious artefacts from any faith or denomination that provoke in me the mildest apprehension. I would happily take my tea sat on a Ouija board as a seat elevator, drink holy water, eat matzos, and touch a picture of Lord Krishna all at the same time without the slightest sense of any ill effects stemming therefrom.

The power of all things religious is in the mind of the person, and that is where fear is rooted. I have, however, been known to take notice of plaques announcing "Danger 50,000 volts" but that is sensible, not irrational. I kow it is not irrational because on one occasion when I ignored it, the 'blessing' of my foolishness was delivered to me with "the swiftness of the fist that blacketh them eye."


M:)

[DrJ]

Yes, you are wrong... it was this quote from post #2 on page 1:

I give my $ and support to Christian missionaries in N.W. Africa, where Voodoo is precisely their religion.

You may want to research that kind of thing before de-repping someone ;)

[valinors_sorrow]

I would add that since the object was easy to avoid touching and there wasn't any control to this impromptu "experiment" either, it doesn't really measure much of anything. Each girl could be mainly motivated by a different thing (I can think of at least a dozen offhand) none of which would qualify as any kind of superstition, as Fr Chuck's wit made apparent. Perhaps it was more an advertisement to the guys which girls are serious about their studies and not there "husband shopping"! LOL Or merely lemming behavior (although let's hope not, it is a university class after all.)

Like Morganite, I claim no superstitious concerns and fear very little on this earth apart from a few very personal irrational phobias that are not very widespread -- case in point: like those little styrofoam peanuts-- is NOT touching one of those things EVER EVER EEK!!

But oddly enough superstitions overlap with both folklore and religious habits combining into complex social nuances which can be incredibly practical, if interpreted correctly. Context is everything so... supposing there was something to the African women signalling they desired pregnancy with this touching and it changing some element of social interaction that increased the frequency of pregnancies? Magic is many many things in my book and there is both good and bad versions of everything here which is why is behooves to look closely and use the ol' noggin.

[Morganite]

Yes, you are wrong... it was this quote from post #2 on page 1:



you may want to research that kinda thing before de-repping someone ;)

M:)RGANITE


.

[Morganite]

Yes, you are wrong... it was this quote from post #2 on page 1:



you may want to research that kinda thing before de-repping someone ;)

Your de-repping is justified, not because of my ignorance of the link, but for your error in answering. :) Unless, of course, I misread what you wrote. Always a possibility.

However:

Voodoo (Vodun or Vudun in Benin and Togo; also Vodou in Haiti) is a name attributed to a West African ancestral religious system of worship and ritual practices, where deities are born and honored, along with the veneration of ancient and recent ancestors who earlier served the same tutelary deities.

This system of worship is widespread in a multitude of African groups in West Africa. <br><br>There is a book by photographer H. Christoph and Hans Oberlander on voodoo in Benin [a country in Western Africa, formerly known as Dahomey],

"Voodoo: secret power in Africa" (Koln ; London : Taschen, c1996, 240 p.) On the site of Das Fotoarchiv, a stock photography site in Germany co-owned? By Christoph.

http://www.das-fotoarchiv.com/evooproj.htm



Note that the quote you quoted said NW Africa, but your response said only "Africa." A small point, but in matters legal, small points make the difference, as Leonardo remarked when the Pope muittered 'trifles!" Obviously, the pope had never eaten trifle or he would not have been so dismissive of them.

Research?


M:)RGANITE


.

[DrJ]

Yes, yes... I read that article on Wikipedia, too.

However, to state that "Voodoo is precisely their religion" is pretty far off. Voodoo (or Vodun) is practiced by about 1% of the African population.

Even if you want to dispute that numbers, multiply it by 10... 10% is still not very much of the some 680,000,000+ people in Africa.

(thats what I said about research... try again :))

---EDITED FOR THE OTHER EDIT---

Yes, very true... NW Africa WAS specified. By the accord of the very article you quoted, the main population of practicitioners of Voodoo live in 3 small countries in W Africa (approx 8 million of them)

[Sentra]

People usually fear what they believe to be is true.

With that, I'll bet no one said, "Pfft, I'm a virgin, lets see this thing in action!!"

With things like this, its usually a 'to each his own' kind of thing.