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massplumber2008 · Jul 5, 2009, 12:18 PM

Change all the flexible hoses one of these weekends. Start by replacing the one in the basement and see if any different after that.

After that, replace the ones at the shower... may not improve pressure, but will definitely improve the VOLUME of water available to fixtures.

Also be sure to check that ALL SHUTOFFS in your home are full open... especially the ones at the shower. This is a more common problem then you might think... ;)

Let me know what happens... OK?

MARK

Tonglebeak · Jul 5, 2009, 02:52 PM

Ok, I'll give in :( I do have some questions.

A) what size pipe should I use? The flex hose is currently 3/4", should I use that?
B) I read that there's hard pipe and soft pipe. Should I buy hard pipe and the 90 degree elbows, or soft pipe and bend it?
C) If I screw up these compression fittings, ima hunt you down :P

massplumber2008 · Jul 5, 2009, 03:45 PM

Use 3/4" copper tubing TYPE L for basement....

Use 1/2" copper tubing TYPE L for shower...

Purchase the hard copper and fittings... not the soft copper.

And you can only hold me responsible if you are paying me... :p:p

MARK

Tonglebeak · Jul 11, 2009, 08:22 PM

Ok, these fittings are _extremely_ expensive. Spent $116 at Lowe's today on pipe, fittings, and 3 tubes of foam insulation (not related to this project). Of course I bought more than I needed to, and some of the fittings/adapters were the wrong fittings. Therefore, as of now, the flex hose is still there in the basement because I bought a 1/2" female adapter instead of a 3/4" :(

Also, I noticed that the coupling the flex hose ties to, is actually a 3/4" to 1/2" push-on reducer, and it leaks. Bah. I also need to buy a 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/2" tee (it's the first tee and it goes to teh sink, and the rest of the basement. If I'm going to do this might as well try to do it right D:). I have a 3/4" x 1/2" x 1/2" tee for the next split (goes to water heater, and bathroom).

On a side-note: they're called gatorbite at Lowe's :)

This job took me much longer than it needed to... so far all I replaced was the cold water side of the tub. I had a _perfectly cut_ length that would've worked if I bought an elbow with a screw-on coupling on one end of it... would've went straight into the ffaucet, but since I didn't I used a male adapter to go from the elbow to the faucet... it works, and I was able to perfectly cut the small length of tubing needed to make the connection. Thank god none of this is leaking.

That's what I have so far. Yes I replaced the shutoff as well, and am doing so for the hot-water side when I get to that.

I did a volume test. Without testing it I could see there was a difference, but I did it anyway (and holy was there a massive amount of iron crud blowing out of there. Not sure if it was from the tub faucet or the flex hose in the basement).

I got 27 pounds of water in one minute. That's now 3.21GPM, _OUT OF THE TUB FAUCET_, and my well pump would not shutoff the entire time. Therefore this test isn't completely accurate because the well pump didn't have to run as much with the previous test, so my 3.21GPM test would've been at a lower pressure meaning less volume from the start... or maybe I'm just trying to justify my massive expense for this, who knows <_<. I'm happy to say that so far there is a difference... a very expensive difference, but a difference nonetheless. And no leaks, even though there's a fair amount of stress on the connections due to the lack of an elbow that has a male screw-on end. If I snag one of those I'll happily stick it on there and go straight into the faucet.

Milo Dolezal · Jul 11, 2009, 08:25 PM

Actually, it looks pretty good what you've done so far. Yes, SharkBite fittings are expensive , so is copper, but these fittings are HomeOwner friendly and are very easy to work with. They are certainly cheaper than having Licensed Plumber over with torch :-D. Thanks for the update ! Milo

afaroo · Jul 12, 2009, 01:33 AM

Great job and thanks for the update, Milo you are a life saver thanks for excellent advice.

Best Regards,

John

massplumber2008 · Jul 12, 2009, 05:16 AM

There should be an even bigger difference when you replace the hot water side and that flexi. In the basement Tonglebeak. Hopefully, when you take a powerful shower... ;)... you will be happy you did all this!

Great job!

MARK

Tonglebeak · Jul 12, 2009, 04:09 PM

Well I did the basement part. Due to unexpected pipe shortages, I tried to stretch things out. So far it doesn't leak, although it does look like there's some stress on the joints, but not a terrible amount. Will this be all right?

massplumber2008 · Jul 12, 2009, 04:16 PM

Just get a couple hangers on the pipe and you'll be fine.

Tonglebeak · Jul 12, 2009, 08:14 PM

Well, what I could do so far has been done. All flexible hoses have been removed from my hose (except for what's under the kitchen sink, but I'm _really_ not worried about those right now). Tomorrow or when I have free time I get to gather all of my Lowe's receipts, pieces I don't need/didn't use/don't need anymore, and have at it lol.

Another video from YouTube. Pressure+volume is _tremendous_ out of the spout. It really is a night and day difference. However, shower is still to be desired...

YouTube - Great tub spout pressure/volume, lower shower pressure/volume

Out of the tub, 32 pounds of water was put down in one minute... 3.84GPM. That's probably the best I'm ever going to get. However, out of the shower (not the shower head, but the shower pipe.. see video). I got a measly 24 pounds of water.. 2.88. Not only is volume low, but pressure appears to be low as well. Anyone mind looking at the vid for their input? I could very well be too picky but the pulse feature on my showerhead is still ineffective as a result of this it seems.

Milo Dolezal · Jul 12, 2009, 08:28 PM

I think once you install low flow shower head - 2.2 gln/m - it will give you better flow.

Advice: get a good brand shower head, like Kohler ( Home Depot, about $49.00 ) or Grohe. These heads are made to work with low water flow. All Grohe heads are 2.5 gln/m and they work perfectly fine.

What brand shower valve is it ?

Tonglebeak · Jul 12, 2009, 08:30 PM

The showerhead or the faucet? The showerhead is a conair water-saver deal, and the faucet is an Aquasource. Or am I misunderstanding?

I would expect the same ~4GPM out of the shower pipe, that I'm getting out of the tub spout. Am I wrong in expecting this? I have no idea at this point and I think I'm just starting to get too picky now :(

Milo Dolezal · Jul 12, 2009, 08:33 PM

There is a by-pass device inside of the shower valve. Some manufacturers even install check-valve-like device inside the body leading up the shower head stand pipe. If you ever have that valve out again, take a look inside, through shower outlet. If you see plastic, round insert, remove it. It may be the thing that slows your water delivery.

Tonglebeak · Jul 14, 2009, 05:34 PM

All right, I'm not going to worry with it. I'm seeing the other half of my problem now, which is water pressure altogether.

Before the pump kicks on, it gets down to 30-32PSI (I lied about the 38 PSI, even to myself, I must've misread something before). It shutsoff at 50PSI, and yes I can see one hell of a difference from the time it kicks on to the time it kicks off. I'll hold my showerhead so the spray reaches eye level, and by the time the pump is done the water is hitting the ceiling. So now that's my other problem. So...

a) is there a way to adjust turn on/turn off points for the well pump? It's a well-x-trol or something like that, looks to be a bit old but I have no knowledge of the well pump area.

b) Would those gatorbites support a higher pressure?

c) am I simply pointing my finger in the wrong direction?

massplumber2008 · Jul 14, 2009, 06:09 PM

A) I don't know much about pumps... maybe JLISENBE can help or others here...

B) NO PROBLEM on the gatorbites.

C) I think it's worth investigating.

Wait for Jlisenbe, Tom, Milo (or others) to pop in... see what they have to say here.

MARK

massplumber2008 · Jul 14, 2009, 06:12 PM

I just asked Jlisenbe to pop in as soon as he gets the message... otherwise, wait until others pop in...

jlisenbe · Jul 14, 2009, 07:58 PM

Tong, welome to the world of residential well water! The distance between 30 and 50 can be noticeable, but your experience seems to be extreme. You have a 20# difference between cut in and cut out which is normal. You can rather easily turn up both points. 40/60 is about as high as I would want to go. This site tells how it's done.

How to adjust water pump pressure, pump cut-on pressure and pump cut-off pressure - private pump and well system do-it-yourself repairs

Frankly, I have not read the 709 posts before this page (slight exagerration), so I'm not real sure what's going on with the shower. However, a good question concerning system pressure would be this: "Are you noticing the same symptoms at other faucets (of pressure dropping and rising), or just in the shower?" I'm going to guess it seems most extreme in the shower.

Tonglebeak · Jul 22, 2009, 07:06 PM

Time to let the thread die. I just took off the holster part of the shower head (which happens to reduce the pipe size from 1/2" to something like 3/16" inches, then back to 1/2" >_>) and hooked the head directly into the pipe (but now I have to let it hang since I have no place to sit it, oh well). That was the other part of the problem and the change in pressure is really not noticeable anymore. Thank god. All is well. Thanks again everyone.