[basketballlover]

I'm sure she doesn't resent you. She is just used to getting her way and when she doesn't she blames it on you or her sisters. You are a grown woman, you should be allowed to drink as much as you want. She is isn't she? I think she is having problems dealing with the fact that her mother isn't slaving away for her or her sisters. That her mother can have a life. She is obviously playing with your emotions and that isn't right. It is obviously hurting you. And like eleanor roosevelt said "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent." and she is right. She may blame you for the divorce, who knows. But she has no right to treat you the way she is.

[raggedmom]

I agree. I have heard that Eleanor Roosevelt comment, so true.
She tells her sis off too, but she is 28 and doesn't care if her sis doesn't approve of what she does, or how much she drinks. She says it isn't pleasant to see her mom drunk. I understand that. It didn't seem to bother anyone else though. We all sang kareoke and I tell everyone how beautiful and talented both my daughters are. She hates that too. You would think I was a prostitute and a horrible person. She sures see me from a negative perspective. Yet, as my older dghtr says, I not only lend her $, I change all plans when she wants something. Ive left dates, work, whatever if she needs moral support or help. When she refuses to be around me for holidays, or come stay at my house, yet will stay w/her sis and tell her everything now, not me... it hurts.
We all are going to NY Fri for a few days. I paid for most of that. I hope we all get along and there is no drama. She says she is paying me back, it's been over a month. She gave me half. Well, it is tough to just act like I don't have a dghtr.

[raggedmom]

Ive been div from her dad for 18 yrs. I was remarried and he was an abusive psycho. When things weren't good, I left relationships, esp for her. I have put her through a lot with diff men. I haven't remarried and have been single now 9 yrs, I learned my lesson.

[asking]

If your daughter grew up with her abusive father, then she has learned to be abusive. This is not something she is going to outgrow. This is who she is. I think you have to be the one to set limits. They are your limits, which you set for yourself.

For example, you might tell yourself, "I will not let my daughter tell me who I can date." My point is that it's a limit for you. You don't need to chase her down and get her to change her behavior (because she won't anyway). It's up to you to figure out how to keep from being manipulated and hurt by her. If it means creating some distance, that's okay. You are only on Earth for a while. You deserve some peace now.

[raggedmom]

She says I refuse to change. I am attracted to psychos and she bring up her bi polar episodes. How hurtful that everything is my fault! She isn't even sure she is yet, but nevertheless she says I try to live through her. All kinds of things. It is my fault she can't be in a relationship, because Ive been through so many bad ones.
Her dad ended up leaving us in 1990, he is now married(after living together 13 yrs) in a tumultous relationship, w/his secretary, one of my best friends. She says at lest he stays with same person. I said after 3 marriages(one annulled) and some failed ones, I am particular and won't stay w/wrong person who abuses me or I don't get along with. I am particular. So her dad wasn't even involved in her life, yet she respects him(she knows he was abusive, so was my 2nd). I will never remarry. Everyone says I am so attractive, and nice etc, but I don't trust anyone.
The episode w/the guy she hated when she broke into my email and told me I wasn't her mom anymore, that I had no self respect to go back to guy she despises, was 6 months ago. We haven't gotten closer, she is still distant and lives w/ a family, pays rent, I have never been to place she lives at. She tries to hurt me at every turn. She can pay them rent, yet refused to pay me, when she knows I needed it. She takes advantage of me. She says, "No one wants to be told repeatedly that they do so much for you." I told her problem is, you have no gratefulness or appreciation, She doesn't give me choice to take her on trips, or buy things, she guilts me into it.
I can't make up for the past. I haven't been a horrible mother. I am told continually that my kids have always taked disrespectfully to me and I do everything for my kids. They do not disrespect their dad, yet he doesn't nag. My youngest rarely sees him. How is that he never paid c/support and was abusive, runs off with his sec after 14 yrs marriage, leaving the family.He is the good guy?

[flayvur]

raggedmom , it's not wrong for you to want someone in your life. But right now I think you should concentrate on you and why you choose the men that you choose. It's true that you've made some mistakes in your life but then who hasn't. YOur daughter need's to grow up and take some responsibility in her own life. She's not a child anymore. If you've done the best you can for your children then that's all you can do. I would recommend that you figure out some of the unanswered question's in your life. Then you'll be abel to lead your daughters. Stop stressing about pleasing her. Your oldest is right. Let life show her that all you have to do is love her. Don't buy her anything else, or take her any where. She needs to respect you if for nonething else but you being her mother.

[raggedmom]

Good advice. It isn't easy to live with knowing you used to be cloe to your daughter and do everything together and now she blames me for everything wrong in her life.
In spite of my marriage issues, the past is the past. I can do nothing to change it. I still think overall I have been a really supportive, sacrificing mother who loves my kids tremendously. I have led a moral life and am a good person. Have I made mistakes, sure I have. But I still feel I deserve respect by my children.
My daughter has turned out so spoiled and selfish. She has these issues of abruptly ending firendships too.
She says I feel sorry for myself and think that I am a victim. Maybe she is right?

[asking]

It seems like your head is filled with all the things your daughter says about you (and the things you say about and to her). Your posts are a constant back and forth reenactment of your conflict with her.

You need to get her out of your head. You may be able to be close to her some day, but for now, you need to spend less time with her, and even more important, stop thinking about her. Instead, start planning your own life. Every time you begin brooding about the things she says, switch the conversation off and start thinking about something positive. It will be hard at first, but it will get easier.

Get her out of your head.

[raggedmom]

Thanks. You give great advice. I really thought things were getting a little better and then this happened.
She still does ask me to get together so I will pay for things. But as my older dghtr says, I repeat the sick habits, and to get her to like me, I think she loves me and wants to be around me, but really I don't think she does. She doesn't enjoy my company and that hurts me. We were so close through the years, it was she and I. Her dad didn't really involve himself in things. He didn't pay support.
Both my kids disrespect me, their dad did and they followed suit. When my oldest(28) knows she hurts me, she will apologize. She truly does love me and accepts me as I am, faults & all, she sees the good and bad in both her parents. She works for me and says I am her best friend, even though we fight occasionally, but it is a more healthy relationship.

I think at times my oldest is jealous the youngest got so much attn. She went to live with her Dad, and he was broke, and abusive to both my older kids. They have been back and forth with both parents. My youngest was like an only child. I paid for private Christian school, took her on lots of trips and dropped everything for her.
I thought I did a good job raising her, but now her dad says, "I knew all this would come out and you would have problems to deal with." She never showed emotions and now she spews hateful words and is stubborn and holds grudges with people, me, friends, bosses, etc. She is selfish and self centered and judgemental. She places restrictions on people and when they don't meet her expectations, she abruptly cuts them off. She has made up with her best friends of 10 yr recently. She didn't speak to her either for months. She can drink and such, but is in judgement of others.
I will seek counseling again. It is expensive, but I realize that is the only way I can get some peace of mind, break the sick patterns.
I am miserable. She says I play the consummate victim and repeat the same patterns with men and will never change. Some things she says are accurate, some are harboring all the things wrong in her life or mind as being my fault. How long does one play the blaming game? Feel guilt? Can't she forgive, I guess not. I asked her that. She is one stubborn gal.
I feel bad I put her through the marriages. But she really didn't have a horrible childhood at all. She doesn't know what appreciation or gratefulness really are all about.
Yes, she works full time and got her degree and teaches. She is in a financial mess and is quite overweight now. Talented and beautiful, but still never had a relationship with a guy, she is 23.

[Jake2008]

It's so strange that the children we bring into this world, turn into people we don't know as grownups. It is also hard to look at adult children, as adults, their own person. If they weren't ours, and were introduced to us later on in life, would we like them? Probably not.

I think that's okay too really. They are who they are, and no matter what 'programming' they had as a child, and despite all the advantages they had, they are contrary to everything they should be.

At this stage of the game, you are entitled to live your life without undue influence from your daughter. For whatever reason she justifies her behaviour toward you, this is dragging you down, and the quality of your own life is affected.

I really think that that is the only thing that you can work on. You cannot change her, you can't change anything in your past, and you cannot predict your future. For today, you have to learn how to live your life for yourself, and nobody else.

Easy? Absolutely not. Letting go is never easy. Whether it is an adult child, or boyfriend, or parent, or friend. But at some point there is so much toxicity in the relationship, and changes are never going to be enough to please her, maybe it is time to just let go of this relationship, and establish a new one with her.

Let her live her life, and you live yours. A good counsellor will be able to help you do that, and handle the guilt at the same time. You'll probably have your moments when you wonder if it isn't easier just to live life as it was, but in my opinion, you will both have a healthier relationship when the rules change, and you take your own life back.

I also think it is okay to say that although we love our children, it's okay not to like them too. In your case, your daughter has to be judged as an adult, and judged by her behaviour. She is also able to change, and she will if she wants a better relationship with you.

Your life is your life now. What you do with it is up to you. Keep things as they are, or work with a counsellor to learn how to set boundaries, and gain a perspective on just how much influence your daughter has on you, so you can free yourself from it. By doing that, you are also expecting your daughter to grow up and be more accountable for dealing with her own problems and anger. That's a good thing.

I hope you'll post and let me know how you're doing.

[raggedmom]

I am trying to take my life back, but it will take time. Thank you for taking the time to give your input, it helps more than you will know!
We go to NYC my dghtrs & I Fri. I pray it goes well. Just today my dghtr called and said"See, I put the $ in your account, so you can't ." I said thanks, but you don't need to say it like that. She took more than a month to pay me back and she knows I am broke. I nag and repeat myself when I ask when she is going to pay me back, because it is never when she says it will be. The only reason she is speaking to me is due to upcoming trip. My oldest makes her pay me back now and tells her, I pay mom's bills(she is my book keeper at work)you better pay her back, don't borrow $ from her.
Anyway, hope it turns out well and we enjoy our time there. I will not let her talk disrespectfully to me.
Happy Holidays!

[asking]

I hope your trip is pleasant too.

[flayvur]

Don't agree that you're a victim. You don't have to agree with that. I would encourage you to look at yourself as a victor. Which means with all that life has thrown your way your still here. We all have to start taking responsibility for our lives and the roles we've played. Love your daughter despite her faults. But don't love her by buying her love. Love her from within. Set your boundaries even with your children on how you'll love them. What I mean is don't let her use oh you're my mom so you have to do this for me . No you don't have to do anything. If you constantly give her things to show her love then that's what she'll think love is. Love is doing something from your heart because that's what you want to do and exspecting nonething in return. When you know better you do better. :):)

[raggedmom]

We went to NYC. Returned 1 a.m. driving alone not fun. The girls stayed 1 xtra day.
I figured out, my youngest doesn't respect me and just really wants to distance herself from me. She loves being close to her older sis, which is good.
My oldest wanted to go to sports bar and watch fball games. We had fun, I drank 1 1/2 beers and she drank 5.My youngest went to see show on her own. When she came to get us, she complained again that I talk too much and repeat myself and shouldn't drink. Well, I was enjoying myself until she started ragging on me. My response, "Omg, I didnt even drink much, your sis drank a lot, why do you care? Am I doing anything so terrible?" I just concluded that I REALLY annoy her. We had a good time overall for 3 days, she's just selfish and self centered. We did everything she wanted to do. It annoyed my oldest, as she has never been to NY. Everything is about her. She wasn't too rude to me, not bad. I am just not important to her.
She said she wasn't buying xmas presents except for kids. Then she sprawled off all her friends,(even some near my age) she was buying for. I said,"Didn't I teach you xmas is about others, not you. Why ru spending hundreds on urself and not others?" "So, u aren't buying me a present?" she went off on me and told me off. I said I really don't even want one. Your bill collectors call me at work everyday looking for you."That was about the only thing we didn't agree on. We used to be very close, traveling lots together, I bought her so many things, hundreds on trips. I waited on her hand and foot, took her to every lesson in the world, auditions, etc.It hurts that she doesn't want to be close anymore. She doesn't approve of anything I do. She still jokes about men, dating, anything to put me down. I am a joke to both my dghtrs.

[raggedmom]

NYC was fun. Couple of small glitches (I almost cried, but held back being oversensitive, or allowing her to upset me.)She spend $ like water on herself. I said "I taught you better than that I thought, at holidays don't spend on yourself, spend on others."She yelled back, I am not buying presents except 4 kids. Don't worry about it, geez!" I said, "Not even for me?" She got quite upset. She did everything she wanted to do, w/o regard to what my oldest & I wanted to do. My other dghtr got a little upset about her selfishness, as she had never been there and we begged her to go. I pd 4 hotel room 2 nights and my oldest's plane tkt, since I always pay for the youngest.
Anyway, she did buy 4 everyone but me in the end?
She also made snide comments about me repeating myself after having 1 1/2 beers. My older dghtr wanted to watch fb, so we went to a pub. She had 5 beers. She invited me & ordered my beer. "I said, geez I was having fun, we've been there few hrs while you watched a show. Did I say or do something terrible?" Her response, " She's not 50, you are."
I am SO tired of her putting parameters on what I do. It's like she is the mom. She pops my balloon when I am having fun. We walked, didn't drive, I didn't talk to any guys, she wasn't there to embarrass when I compliment her singing etc. It never ends.
She is really getting close to my oldest, almost replacing her as the mom. She is 28, youngest 23. She calls my oldest sev times a day, rarely call me anymore. I text her, she rarely responds. She says her sis is immoral at times also. She really judges everyone.
We used to be so close, she still says she can't have a relationship because of me, etc. etc. I am to blame for everything. They tell jokes about me constantly, the two of them.
All in all, I had fun. I have spent thousands on her through the years on trips, at least she paid for most of her own this time. They stayed an xtra day together, while I went back to work. My oldest told her prior to leaving," don't ruin my time w/drama", so I think my youngest maintained to keep peace.
I did tell her I am tired of you telling me what to do, I am not going to always do what you want me to, those times are over. Hope things improve. I tried to keep peace also. No drama from me.

[Gemini54]

I have been reading through all your posts, and I think that Jake is being extremely patient with you. I must admit, I felt a strong sense of impatience.

I don't understand why your life is so intertwined with that of your daughters. You all seem to judge and criticize each other constantly, each of you seems hypersensitive to any real or imagined slights by any of the others, and then it all regularly blows totally out of proportion. Additionally, none of you seem to have a sense of boundaries or of personal space.

There are SO many issues in your various posts, that it is very hard to know where to start, so I'll try and keep it really simple.

I think that you need to live a life that is separate from your daughters.

You seem to be trying to recreate a lost youth with them and involve yourself in their activities and their lives. You are their parent, not their friend and I think you need to detach from them and start living a life physically and emotionally distant from them.

Clearly they don't respect you when you participate in their social activities and they don't trust you round their male friends. So stop socializing with them. You're getting a bit long in the tooth to be going to pubs with twentysomethings anyway.

Find some people your own age to be friends with, go on trips with, have a drink with.

Your daughters now have their own lives to live. They are responsible for themselves regardless of how overweight, stubborn, hateful, selfish and childish they are. Stop interfering. Let them live their lives and make the mistakes they need to. You did.

I agree with Jake that you must go to counseling. But I also think that the dynamic may change with your daughters if you stop being so intertwined in their lives, listening to their $hit, talking about your own $hit, being involved in petty squabbles.

You're an adult now and your children are grown up. In effect, they are no longer your immediate responsibility. Cut the apron strings and get some professional help for yourself. You're never to old to learn to be a better person.

Notice I said 'person', not 'mother'.

[raggedmom]

I agree with most of what you say. I don't hit on their male friends. That's not what I am saying. There is no crossing the line with my daughters male friends. They know I am the mother and I don't flirt with them. My youngest tries to tell me how to date and interferes with my marriages and relationships. She likes very few men.
I am going to go to counseling yet again.
I have always been very close to my dghtrs and it is tough with the empty nest syndrome. My oldest works for me.
I rarely go out with my dghtrs. The one night I was hanging w/my friends, not hers.
I date often and people my age. I don't frequent bars.
It is tough to change the dance w/my dghtrs.
You are getting impatient? Hmm. I know there are issues to be worked on. I think venting is important. Thanks for listening and for your advice.

[Gemini54]

I agree with most of what you say. I dont hit on their male friends. That's not what I am saying. There is no crossing the line with my daughters male friends. They know I am the mother and I dont flirt with them. My youngest tries to tell me how to date and interferes with my marriages and relationships. She likes very few men.
I am going to go to counseling yet again.
I have always been very close to my dghtrs and it is tough with the empty nest syndrome. My oldest works for me.
I rarely go out with my dghtrs. The one night I was hanging w/my friends, not hers.
I date often and people my age. I dont frequent bars.
It is tough to change the dance w/my dghtrs.
You are getting impatient? Hmm. I know there are issues to be worked on. I think venting is important. Thanks for listening and for your advice.

Well, I didn't say that you hit on their male friends. I said that they didn't trust you round them.. .

The thing is - you may be close to your daughters, but it hasn't resulted in a good relationship with them - you keep trying to change things but the outcome is never satisfactory for any of you.

Venting is great but in the absence of action you'll keep going in circles.

Hopefully seeing someone professional will make a difference - let us know how the counseling goes.

[raggedmom]

Jake2008. I really think you should go into private practice, your advice is uncanny on the spot!
My dghtr moved out last June when I was in DC. We have mended somewhat. We had an OK time in NY.
You are right, I cannot change her, nor do I have to accept her poor behavior towards me.
She tells her sis everything, she's sort of replaced her as a mother figure.
I think my oldest actually gets joy in seeing my youngest and I not get along. Yesterday we went to breakfast together. She spends the night down the st. at her sis's house, not here. I said, you know we used to be so close and do so much together, I miss seeing you. Her response, "You sound so needy when you say that, it makes you seem so insecure." You know I don't like needy people.
I mentioned it to my sister today and she just sighed, like she couldn't believe it. She said that is so hurtful, I can't believe she says things like that to you.
I begged my mom to lend my youngest 4000 for surgery, that was for self improvement, a breast reduction. Nonetheless, I have never borrowed from my parents. I have sacrificed so much for the girl, and still she really wants little to do with me. She doesn't value my opinion, won't discuss relationships with me at all, because I have failed at them. She only sees me when she has no one else to do things with, or out of obligation. It hurts me so much.
She is quite successful in most things. She is taking meds for bi polar traits and seems a bit better.
I can't afford counseling right now. I have gone in the past.
My dghtr that I adore so much has not turned out the way I thought she would. I thought we would be forever close. We are very distant. She says she loves me, yet can't stand being around me very long.
Well, I am trying to get over the empty nest syndrome and develop my own life. It isn't easy...

[Jake2008]

It is heartbreaking when you don't get even the basic respect you deserve, regardless of what they think of you personally (for whaterver reason). Somehow it is okay to dump all the nasty stuff on mom, because it has to go somewhere right? They wouldn't dream of treating anyone else this way.

Trouble is, we try to make sense of it, and there just aren't any answers. Your youngest has really put you through the wringer, and it will probably never make any sense.

I think the hardest part is we have regrets. Any good mother I know who did her best, and ended up being on the receiving end of bad relationships with adult children, did the best they could at the time when they were growing. Mistakes? You bet. I've made plenty, who hasn't. But, sometimes I think that no matter what we did wrong, or what we did right, they are going to end up being their own person. In whatever form that takes.

No matter how we accept them, or what we expect of them, sometimes they are just who they are, and that's the way it is. One of mine is the total opposite of the other, and although hard, I've just learned to accept her as she is. Take the good when it comes your way, and let the rest go. Nothing will change the person she has turned out to be.

A very good friend of mine with four daughters has one that is polar opposite to her sisters. I wondered sometimes if she had a different father! But, she didn't, it's just who she is.

Keep busy, and try not to beat yourself up anymore. You deserve happiness and a full life without so many regrests and guilt. Do what makes you happy.

Sometimes you just have to let go of the past.

All the best to you raggedmom.