[Wondergirl]

I am a bit disappointed that you think abuse is acceptable. In my worldview, acceptance of abuse against anyone seems contradictory to a profession of faith in Christ. That is why I take a stand when others are abused, whether I agree with them or not.

But you are welcome to believe as you wish.

No one is abusing you, Tom. All we are doing is disagreeing with you. We know from many other threads here and on other sites/boards that our chances of agreeing with you on certain issues is nil. Why we all do this merry dance time after time I'll never know. It certainly isn't for FrChuck's amusement. You, Tom, will never convince us, for instance, that infant baptism isn't commanded by God, nor will we convince you that it is. Actually, when Catholics and Protestants decide they agree with each other but not with you, that's rather major in my book. I'm not quite sure what it means, but I'll bet there's some depth to it.

[arcura]

Wondergirl,
Point well made and well said.
I have never intentionally abused Tom but he has accused me of doing so many times.
That get very old and tiresome quickly
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

[Tj3]

Tj3,
I do not think that abuse is acceptable.
But in your case I find in curious that when someone tells a truth you don't like you call it abuse and it appears here that you are the only one who does that.
You have been crying abuse to you on several boards for several years; so often that it stands out like a sore thumb.
Perhaps we should get back to the topic and not worry about imagined abuse.
Fred

Fred,

Perhaps rather than make abusive and demeaning comments of your own about others, yes, you should get on topic.

[Tj3]

No one is abusing you, Tom. All we are doing is disagreeing with you.

WG,

Disagreement does not involve demeaning comments about others. At least within the civilization and circles that I live in. It also is not in concert with scripture.

Maybe your circle of friends consider abuse normal. If so, I feel very sorry for you, but that is still no excuse. We have the Bible as our moral guide and should not be lowered to the standards of non-Christian society.

Personally, I don't care if you and a few other here who have difficulty tolerating disagreement don't like me - I am here to discuss the topic and cannot control whether others choose to dislike people because they disagree. I have been enjoying some great discussions over the past while while those few folk have been keeping themselves scarce)

You, Tom, will never convince us, for instance, that infant baptism isn't commanded by God, nor will we convince you that it is.

Again, that is not my concern. I am here to discuss what God's word says. You made a comment and I simply asked you for scriptural backup for that comment. If you are unable to find any scripture to validate it, that is not my problem.

Actually, when Catholics and Protestants decide they agree with each other but not with you, that's rather major in my book. I'm not quite sure what it means, but I'll bet there's some depth to it.

Again, that does not matter to me. I am interested in being in alignment with God's word, not anyone's denomination. And since I am neither Catholic nor Protestant, neither theological system carries undue influence on what I believe.

Now, do you wish to keep pointing fingers and making demeaning comments or discuss the issue at hand?

(Interesting how most users on here have friendly discussions. There is a small group here, and virtually every time members of that small group show up on a thread, it follows a pattern of abuse and closure.

[Wondergirl]

On topic --

"Do you have to be baptized in water to be saved?"
No.

"Is it necesary for salvation?"
No.

[Tj3]

On topic --

"Do you have to be baptized in water to be saved?"
No.

"Is it necesary for salvation?"
No.

Wow - finally - on topic.

And we agree. You never know what will happen if you can stay on respectful discussion of the topic. Who knows - maybe we would find other areas of agreement.

[arcura]

My answeres to those questions is...
Yes
And
Yes.
So it goes.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Wondergirl]

My answeres to those questions is ...
Yes
and
Yes.
So it goes.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I love you anyway. We agree more than we disagree.

[Tj3]

My answeres to those questions is ...
Yes
and
Yes.
So it goes.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,

Some choose to trust in water, I'll put my trust in the blood that Jesus shed on the cross.

Rev 1:5-6
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever.
NKJV

You won't find a statement about water which says anything like that anywhere in scripture.

1 Cor 2:1-3
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
NKJV

[sndbay]

Scripture says Jesus has shown the way. It is HIS step that we follow. Just as Christ received the HOLY SPIRIT witness by John and heaven above, we too must be baptized in hope of salvation.

The Law of Faith is ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM.

Who has put their faith in something other then One Lord when they do not follow in baptism?

Baptism allows us to draw water out of the well of salvation, the well of righteousness.
It is written that Christ then can dwell within us (Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. )

In ONE Baptism we have put on Christ to stop the flesh from lust. (Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. )

In ONE Baptism we have HIS Hand to purge us continuely and burn by fire
unquenchable.(Luke 3:17)


NOTED POINT**
ONE Baptism is in like figure to Jesus that it also saves us to keep us i HIS way.(1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ)



Righteousness is the breastplate of our salvation and our righteousness depends Christ within as He molds us. (Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? )

It is written that the law of sin in(filthy rags) will war against the LAW of Faith that is within the mind. It does this to try and capture you into being filthy rags under the law of sin. (Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members)

Baptism required for salvation? YES, the law of faith says it is.

Baptism by water and spirit? YES, as Christ did show us the way, HIS WAY

Baptized infants? No, confess faith in Christ Jesus is required. Scripture tells us infants shall be call holy from the womb

[homesell]

It still boils down to Tj3, wondergirl and some others(me included) believe water baptism is required AFTER one has already received Salvation.

The other group, sndbay, fred, and some others believe that water baptism helps one to get saved.

At least, that's the best I can make out from it.

[Tj3]

Scripture says Jesus has shown the way. It is HIS step that we follow. Just as Christ received the HOLY SPIRIT witness by John and heaven above, we too must be baptized in hope of salvation.

Sndbay,

Remember yesterday, we were discussing the fact that everyone who is saved, whether OT saint or NT saint, had their sins atoned by the blood of Christ on the cross. There is no other way to be saved.

If baptism was essential for salvation, then are you saying that everyone of the OT saints is in hell?

Another question that I often ask of those who hold to the doctrine of baptismal regeneration is this - If a man who has been on alcohol and drugs, is homeless, and has reached the absolute pit in their existence remembers what they were taught as a child about the gospel, and as he is laying there in the ditch, cries out to God, acknowledges that they are a sinner and that it is only through Christ that their hope lies. Then asks God to forgive his sins and to receive Jesus as Saviour.
If that person dies a few minutes later without having reached a baptismal font, is he going to hell?

[classyT]

It still boils down to Tj3, wondergirl and some others(me included) believe water baptism is required AFTER one has already recieved Salvation.

The other group, sndbay, fred, and some others believe that water baptism helps one to get saved.

At least, that's the best I can make out from it.

That is exactly what they are saying! Think about it!. it takes another human to baptize a person... so not ONLY is the finished work of Christ NOT enough... they actually think another human being needs to be involved in their salvation. In my opinion not only is it biblically incorrect... it is insulting to the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Fr_Chuck]

Great points, drilled over and over ( same points) though pages of name calling from both sides, often in snide comments.

So figure we can start attacking each other in another thread

This one closed.