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normadancer2 · May 5, 2009, 08:01 AM

This is my dilemma. I recently had a contractor come out to check my AC unit. I have a couple of leaks in my coil. My AC unit is 20 years old. The contractor recommended that I seriously consider replacing the unit, one because it is near the end of it's life, and two, that I should do so soon because the R22's are being phased out and after 2010 supplies will be limited. I would then have to buy a whole new system.

So I thought, great, if I get a new unit I qualify for the 2009 tax credit. The problem is that to get the credit I have to have a 16 Seer Unit. My contractor initially recommended a 13 SEER unit. He also sells a 15 SEER and a 17 SEER unit. The 15 SEER won't qualify for the tax credit. The 17 SEER is to large for the space I have. He doesn't have a 16 SEER unit. Contractor is a Byrant dealer.

To complicate matters, I live in a condo. The condo association doesn't want me to run lines outside the building but there is no access to the lines otherwise as I'm on the 2nd floor. But that's a whole different issue.

So I guess my question is am I better off going with the 13 or 15 SEER unit and foregoing the tax credit? I'm so confused.

normadancer2 · May 5, 2009, 08:34 AM

Oh I should also mention that my condo unit is around 1200 square feet, 2nd floor unit. The contractor thought I should have a 2 ton unit as I'm on the second floor. I think the original unit is 1 1/2 ton or 2 ton.

The contractor also mentioned that I replace the lines. Something about mineral oil?

dac122 · May 5, 2009, 09:43 AM

What was the estimate to repair the leaks as coils can be repaired? R-22 is not going away but it will likely get a little more expensive. There are also R-22 drop in replacements available right now.

What is the price differential between the 13SEER unit and 16?

To know the proper size the contractor should be doing a load calc (aka Manual J). Always get multiple quotes.

normadancer2 · May 5, 2009, 11:07 AM

I haven't gotten quotes per se yet as we are having the problem with the management company about line installation. They told me to replace the coil alone would be around $800. To replace the whole would be about $2800. He just gave me a ballpark number. I don't know what size unit that is. I don't think that includes the installation based on what I've been reading. I'm trying to get more knowledge before I start calling around.

dac122 · May 5, 2009, 01:19 PM

How do you know you have a couple of leaks in the coil? I just went through this on a relative's system and the pros did not work to find the leak but assumed there was a leak somewhere due to low refrigerant.

BTW when we found the leak it was at a brazed joint which is easily fixable. We still have to rebraze the joint and recharge the system.

TristaNicholle · May 5, 2009, 01:43 PM

What state do you live in? Is this a heat pump? I would recommend 13 seer because it's not worth the extra money for the 15 seer. Maybe you should have the contractor try a can of Stop-Leak in the old system and see if it will run.

normadancer2 · May 5, 2009, 02:24 PM

The contractor was out a couple of weeks ago and checked for the leaks with some type of gadget. I was with him at the time and there are 2 distinct leaks. I had absolutely no freon in my AC so they had to fill it first before they could check and find the leaks in the coil. It cost me $120 just to find the leaks.

My contractor thought too that I was better off going with a 13 SEER vs. 15 SEER as far as price and value goes. But that's not my question. My question was should I go with a lower SEER either 13 or 15 and forego any type of tax credit which requires 16 SEER or greater. Or should I just repair the coil and not replace the unit and not worry about the credit either.

See, I always have to pay income taxes so any time I can get a tax credit I'm all for it. But I'm beginning to think that if I have to invest too much money for a $1500 credit it's not worth it.

The contractor did say if it was his home he'd probably just replace the coil first, then see if there is any problem with the unit and/or lines.
He did say that based on the age of the unit, if I didn't replace it now, I probably would have to in the near future. Then the whole issue of R22 came up.

I'm in Michigan.

Joshdta · May 5, 2009, 02:48 PM

If this is not a heatpump, if it is just a ac only I would go with the 13 seer, or just get a new coil. The price you pay for a 16 plus seer will be much higher then the 1500 you will get back. You will need new outdoor unit new coil txv valve and new copper line set to change to a 16 seer unit

letmetellu · May 5, 2009, 03:25 PM

To take advantage of the $1500 tax rebate you will have to spend at least $5000 because the credit is 30% of what you spend to get the more efficient unit.

There will be R22 freon for many years to come, What is out there now is being reclaimed and will be for sell to people that still have units that use R22 freon. The 410A that is use in the higher efficient units is actually higher priced than the R22.

I say replace with a 2 ton SEER 13 unit that uses R22 and save yourself some money. That way you do not have to change your lines.

mygirlsdad77 · May 5, 2009, 05:24 PM

Agree with above statements. Either replace just the leaking coil. Or if you decide to upgrade, go with a 13 seer unit.

dac122 · May 5, 2009, 06:29 PM

Agree with all of the above as well. Make sure you price out all your optoins: fix, or replace with 13, 14, 15,16 SEER of various brands.

tk03 · May 6, 2009, 06:08 AM

1200 sq ft? Have him check the size with a heat gain calculation. This is a science not multiple choice. The decision you make now you will live with for the next 15 years. Proper sizing is key to efficient operation.
Check FAQ on proper sizing
http://www.comfort-calc.net/faq.html

normadancer2 · May 6, 2009, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by letmetellu

To take advantage of the $1500 tax rebate you will have to spend at least $5000 because the credit is 30% of what you spend to get the more efficient unit.

There will be R22 freon for many years to come, What is out there now is being reclaimed and will be for sell to people that still have units that use R22 freon. The 410A that is use in the higher efficient units is actually higher priced than the R22.

I say replace with a 2 ton SEER 13 unit that uses R22 and save yourself some money. That way you do not have to change your lines.

I'm beginning to think this is what I'll do if I don't just replace the coil and see what happens. But the first contractor I talked to recommended changing the lines. What are the pros and cons of using the old lines? If I don't change the lines that would solve my problem with the management company.

letmetellu · May 6, 2009, 09:34 AM

There is always the chance that the lines have a leak in them but if they are made of type L soft copper that is not very likely. If the contractor thought that the lines needed cleaning, this is just if you change the type of freon, they could be cleaned with any good cleaner and then pumped down and checked for leaks, that would make them just as good as new lines.

Any other questions just ask.

dac122 · May 6, 2009, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by normadancer2

I'm beginning to think this is what I'll do if I don't just replace the coil and see what happens. But the first contractor I talked to recommended changing the lines. What are the pros and cons of using the old lines? If I don't change the lines that would solve my problem with the management company.

If you're thinking of repairing the existing system, find the leak first. Otherwise you're just guessing. Most leaks exist at a brazed joint along the lineset during install or in the outdoor or indoor coil's numerous joints. If you want to take a crack at this yourself look for a sheen around the joints due to the oil leaking out. Non-leaking joints have a dull dusty look from, well dust, and oxidation. If you think you've found a possible leak and the system still has some charge in it spread some liquid soap/laundry detergent on the joint and watch it bubble.

normadancer2 · May 6, 2009, 12:53 PM

I definitely have leaks in the coil. I don't know about the lines. How can you check the lines for a leak without tearing out the wall?

Joshdta · May 6, 2009, 01:19 PM

Cap both ends off and do a pressure or vacuum test

normadancer2 · May 7, 2009, 07:48 AM

Thanks for all your help. I feel like I'm better able to start making decisions. I'll let you know what ultimately happens.

mygirlsdad77 · May 7, 2009, 03:24 PM

Thank you, we always look forward to hearing the outcome.

normadancer2 · Jul 21, 2009, 09:51 AM

Well it took a while but I finally got it done. I finally got permission to replace the lines if it turned out to be necessary. But due to the delay in getting an answer from my condo association, my contractor was bought out by Flame and the price originally quoted for me about doubled. I had decided to go with a Bryant 2 ton R-22 unit and repair heating coil. So I had to scramble and find a new contractor. I ended up getting a 1 1/2 ton Carrier 13 SEER unit with the new Puron refrigerant for about the same price as my original quote so the delay was worth it. And the lines didn't need to be replaced which saved me an additional $300!

So all in all, the tax credit wasn't worth it for what I needed.