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DIYgirl803 · May 4, 2009, 11:04 AM

I have been slowly trying to go through my house and change out old brass fixtures in my 19 year old house to more updated fixtures and keep coming across the same problem: simply a black and a white wire poking out a one inch diameter hole in the ceiling with no blue electrical box (or as I call it a "blue cup") to attach the new fixture to. I'm not sure they haven't simply drilled holes into the drywall to attach the old fixture to the ceiling. (It looks thicker than just 1.5- 2" but not sure if it includes a stud or what). In the master bath, there is simply a tear in the drywall with wires poking out that was covered by the lighting strip type fixture.

Is it safe to simply attach the fixture to the ceiling? (The ceiling fan I took down has obviously been there for a while without falling.) Or is a must to install an electrical box, and if so, is that something I can figure out on my own or best left to the professionals?

TristaNicholle · May 4, 2009, 11:13 AM

A professional may correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I believe it is against code to make any wiring connections outside of an approved electrical box.

Ace has a page that seems to have some helpful info:
Ace

tkrussell · May 4, 2009, 11:31 AM

You really should try to get an outlet box installed at each light fixture. I attached some pictures of pancake box and old work box.

The intention is to contain all splices in an approved outlet box so if any sparks or heat is created it will be captured in the box and light fixture attached below it, and not be close to combustible materials.

I know, the fixtures have been there for years without boxes. OK, fair enough, but just because there have been no issues, but no reaosn to not make it right, which I get your trying to do.

Aren't old homes fun?

DIYgirl803 · May 4, 2009, 11:46 AM

Thank you for your honest answer! I definitely don't want my house burning down, just curious how they got away with doing that in the first place. I am a "follow the rules" person myself, so it sounds like a need a date with an electrician to come through and bring me up to code.

And to answer the question: Old houses ARE wonderful, like 3 months after moving in, the water hose to the fridge's ice maker leaked overnight and we had to replace the entire downstairs flooring including our beautiful hardwoods!

tkrussell · May 4, 2009, 11:51 AM

It was how things were done then, the code is re-written every three years, and it has come a long way. Maybe yours was done according to code back then and maybe not. But glad you looking to make any corrections necessary.

On the lighter side, no pun intended, I thought maybe you would want to reword this:

Originally Posted by DIYgirl803

sounds like a need a date with an electrician to come through and bring me up to code.

Electricians are good at removing shorts.

Hope you took no offense to my crudeness.

ballengerb1 · May 4, 2009, 01:53 PM

LOL TK please don't touch my shorts unless its an emergency.

kp2171 · May 4, 2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by tkrussell

Electricians are good at removing shorts.

Cracked me up

creahands · May 4, 2009, 04:16 PM

Worst case scenario, if u have a fire it may void your house insurance.

Chuck

ohb0b · May 4, 2009, 05:17 PM

Is it safe to simply attach the fixture to the ceiling? (The ceiling fan I took down has obviously been there for a while without falling.) Or is a must to install an electrical box, and if so, is that something I can figure out on my own or best left to the professionals?

As TK says, ask for an "Old Work" box, or use a pancake box.

You also mention ceiling fixtures and fans. Article 314.27 requires boxes that are sole support of luminaires (Lighting fixtures) to be rated for the purpose, and capable of supporting 50 lbs.

Sole support ceiling fan boxes must also be fan rated, and able to support 70 lbs.

The best thing to do is attach the fixture to a framing member. If you can access the attic above the ceiling, you can nail a short 2x4 perpendicular to the studs, and attach the box to the 2x4.

Oh, another thing, you described "A black and a white wire protruding through the plaster." which leads me to believe your house is around 100 years old, and has "knob-and-tube" wiring?

(Sorry, I'll have to pass on the date... my wife would object.)

Fr_Chuck · May 4, 2009, 06:32 PM

The old time wiring is very common, my parents home is done that way, the ceiling lights are merely screwed into the ceiling material. They were taken down and put up so many times over the years, I am surprised they have holes to put them into any more.

ceilingfanrepair · May 4, 2009, 10:45 PM

Fixtures, including fans, screwed into a joist will be safe and secure. Still better to have boxes.