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Evilin · May 1, 2009, 07:53 AM

I'll try to make this as short as possible. I live in Indiana and I adopted my husbands son a few years ago. My son is now 6. He still has a relationship with his biological maternal grandfather. There is no visitation agreement in the court system. Unfortunately, our relationship within the past year has gone south despite my husband and I trying to work something out with the grandfather. Now, anytime we ground our son or give him a punishment that the grandfather does not agree with, we get threatened with "I have rights." I have asked my attorney about this, and he is telling me that because of the adoption, the rights of the biological maternal grandfather were terminated. Is this true? If my husband and I decide that it is in the best interest of our son to not visit with his grandfather, can the grandfather take us to court and get rights to force us to let him see our son?

Synnen · May 1, 2009, 08:04 AM

Grandparents have no rights after their children sign away parental rights to their grandchildren and said grandchildren are adopted.

Legally, there is NOTHING that connects the biological grandparents to the adopted child.

stevetcg · May 1, 2009, 01:37 PM

Actually Syn, in Indiana, grandparent visitation rights survive step parent adoption:

IC 31-17-5-9
Adoption; effect on visitation rights
Sec. 9. Visitation rights provided for in section 1 or 10 of this

Chapter survive the adoption of the child by any of the following:
(1) A stepparent.
(2) A person who is biologically related to the child as:
(A) a grandparent;
(B) a sibling;
(C) an aunt;
(D) an uncle;
(E) a niece; or
(F) a nephew.
As added by P.L.1-1997, SEC.9.

So actually, the grandparent DOES have a leg to stand on, but if the grandparent is counteracting the parental rules of the parent, that is forbidden and will work hard against him in court.

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/cod.../ar17/ch5.html

Synnen · May 2, 2009, 06:05 AM

That's actually cool.

I stand corrected.

Do the grandparents have to go to courts for those rights, or do they have them automatically?

stevetcg · May 2, 2009, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Synnen

That's actually cool.

I stand corrected.

Do the grandparents have to go to courts for those rights, or do they have them automatically?

They have to go to court like normal visitation.

Evilin · May 23, 2009, 07:33 AM

I made a post at the beginning of the month that a few of you were good enough to respond to, but I had more questions and I could not find a way to edit my original post.

I do understand that under IC 31-17-5-9, the grandfather may petition the court to receive court ordered visitation. However, the grandfather states that, according to his attorney, his court ordered visitation from 2005 still stands after the adoption was finalized. My attorney say that the court ordered visitations were stopped when the adoption was done. So, which is right?

ScottGem · May 23, 2009, 08:39 AM

First, if you have a follow-up use the Answer This Question options, instead of stating a new thread. I've merged your threads and edited your post to suit.

I think its clear from IC 31-17-5-9 that the grandfather still has visitation rights. Have you asked your attorney why he fells that it doesn't apply? But that's all he has. I don't know what rights he is threatening you with. But he has no rights that apply to how the child is raised and cannot interfere with that.

Evilin · May 23, 2009, 10:04 AM

The grandfather's attorney is saying that the court ordered visitation that the grandfather was given in 2005 is still active because of the IC 31-17-5-9. My attorney has told me that when the adoption was finalized, there was no court ordered visitation for the grandfather and estranged grandmother. I do realize that under IC 31-17-5-9, either maternal grandparent can petition the court for set visitation, along with both mine and my husbands parents. However, the question is: Does the adoption sever the court ordered visitation that happened before the adoption took place? Do I have to still follow the original court order?

ScottGem · May 23, 2009, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Evilin

However, the question is: Does the adoption sever the court ordered visitation that happened before the adoption took place? Do I have to still follow the original court order?

That part is very clear. The adoption does NOT sever an existing order of visitation. What your attorney seems to be saying is that the order from 2005 either expired or was not valid for some reason at the time of adoption. There is nothing in what you have told us to justify that, but he may have some other info we don't have.

Evilin · May 23, 2009, 01:04 PM

Thank you very much! Knowing this information will allow things to move forward. Much appreciated.

Evilin · Aug 29, 2009, 01:30 PM

Ok, well, since my last post, my husband and I have set up a one day a week visitation for my son with all 5 sets of his grandparents in an attempt to make things fair for everyone. The biological grandfather said that that was all well and good, but he has priority. Now he wants to take my son one day during the weekend, claiming that his new work schedule will not give him enough time with my son. We explained to him that every grandparent was given one day during the week, that all the grandparents have work related issues that they have to deal with, and that no other grandparent has a day on the weekend because that is our time with him. Now, they haven't come to get my son and are claiming that they will see us in court because we are being unreasonable. That since an agreement was not reached, the courts will help us make one. I do not feel that we have been unreasonable, in fact, my husband and I have bent over backwards for them. I cannot find any information on what my attorney is saying about my adoption cutting the bio grandfather out. I cannot find anything stating his court ordered visitation expired (which was one day a week anyways). We have been giving him his one day a week, but that wasn't good enough. I do plan on making sure that the other 4 sets of gp's are recognized and heard. If he has visitation, so should they. Where does it all end? Can't grandparents just let good people raise their own kids and keep their noses out of it?

ScottGem · Aug 29, 2009, 02:50 PM

I think the grandfather IS being unreasonable and that he will lose in court. All you need to do is document your efforts to allow the grandparents some visitation and I believe the court will side with you.

stevetcg · Aug 29, 2009, 03:09 PM

I concur with Scott... tell him that's the deal and if he doesn't like it, go to court. And once he burns THAT bridge, tell him to find new grandkids.

He is being offered one day a week... no court is going to order that for a grandparent anyway.

Evilin · Sep 4, 2009, 10:29 AM

Thank you both for your help! I am looking into filling a modification to 1) remove the visitation order for the grandmother since she has not seen my son in years, and 2) to try and remove the court ordered visitation for the grandfather so that his threats will stop. If anyone has anymore info, it is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

GV70 · Sep 20, 2009, 01:59 PM

Visitation rights provided for in section 1 or 10 of this chapter survive the establishment of paternity of a child by a court proceeding other than an adoption proceeding.
Chap. 5, IC 31-17-5-8

Section 9.
Visitation rights provided for in section 1 or 10 of this chapter survive the adoption of the child by any of the following:

A stepparent....

GV70 · Sep 20, 2009, 02:02 PM

Adoption in Indiana cuts off the legal rights of the grandparents unless the adoption is by a stepparent, natural grandparent, sibling, aunt, uncle, niece or nephew.
The previous order is still valid.

GV70 · Sep 20, 2009, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Evilin

I If my husband and I decide that it is in the best interest of our son to not visit with his grandfather, can the grandfather take us to court and get rights to force us to let him see our son?

The correct answer is that you need to go to Court and to ask the judge to terminate grandfather's visitation.You have to prove that it is in the best interests of the child and that he interferes with the relationship between the child and your family.

Evilin · Jan 19, 2010, 10:39 PM

Hello all! I'm back with more problems that maybe you can help me with. The relationship between us and the maternal grandfather has gone so far south that north is not even a direction. But now we are unsure what we should do, if there is anything that can be done. The visitation order states that the maternal grandfather gets one day a week, day and time to be worked out between him and my husband. Does this mean that anything not specifically mentioned (i.e. overnights) we control? My husband and I decided that with everything that has been going on, not to let our son stay over night. Right now, they get Fridays 4-8. We have even gone as far as to give each one of our parents a day during the week as well (are parents are divorced) just too keep things fare. While my husband and I get the weekends. Maternal grandfather has stated that he has "priority" because he has a court order. He has called me the "c" word because I wouldn't let him take my son on a day that wasn't his day and after he already knew that my son was grounded. He went over to my mother-in-laws house to try and convince her that my son was being abused and they need to do something about it. That he didn't spend all the money that he did for my son in the beginning not to get something in return. My son now says things like "my grandfather doesn't get mad at me because he loves me," and "the other grandparents don't love me because I get in trouble when I do something wrong." I had a conversation with him earlier today where he tole me he was moving out when he was 13. And that makes me think about the Indiana statute that says that the wishes of the child are considered at 14. But I thought that was for divorced parents. What is going on here?! What should I do? Where should I even begin?

Synnen · Jan 19, 2010, 11:21 PM

You seriously get your own child only on the weekends?

Have you gone back to court since your last post to amend the grandfather's visitation?

At this point, I'd get a GOOD lawyer, get the visitation terminated, and move out of state away from ALL of the grandparents.

The idea that his grandfather loves him more because he's not held liable for his own actions is a scary one.

ScottGem · Jan 20, 2010, 06:17 AM

Also, if your son thinks he can move out at 13 he is in for a rude awakening. If he tries to do so and goes to live with the grandfather, it will help build a case of alienation of parental affection against the grandfather. You may be able to get that going now. The only way your son could move in with grandpa prior to 18 years old, is if the grandfather goes to court for primary custody and wins. But that does apply in ANY custody case, not just where the parents are divorced.

I agree with Synnen, you need to consult an attorney who can advise how to deal with grandpa.