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nazrin · Apr 27, 2009, 12:52 PM

I have a set of hurricane resistant 15 pane french doors I want to install in replace of my 30" wide single door. I have a total of 65" of space to work with and my doors measure 30" each. It is a load bearing wall with just the roof overhead gable end.

Can I replace my original 30" wide door header with the same size but longer. Or will this old header need to be increased in size, height wise or thickness for the longer span?

21boat · Apr 27, 2009, 01:10 PM

The header needs re placed. Also you need to temp support the ceiling by the header ares.

I don't know the size of the 30" header to answerer that. A basic header is 2x10 s doubled up

creahands · Apr 28, 2009, 06:52 AM

The rough opening should be 63 inches. There is not enough room for jack studs with the opening u have.

The building code in my area requires 2 jack studs on each side to support header. This would require a header 69 1/2 inches long from master stud to master stud.

Is it possible to make opening wider?
Let us know and we can help u.

Good luck

Chuck

nazrin · Apr 28, 2009, 08:00 AM

First off, I was guessing on my door width, my original door is 32" and I have double door which measure 30 1/8" and 32", what would be my ruff opening for that, basically you add 3"?

I can not get anymore room than 65 3/8" because of other walls on either end, both walls where added after the wall I'm working on, so original 16" on center studs should be in place on my wall. From what I measure and what I think I need if I keep it perfect and tight, I will have only an extra 1/2" to fit these door in.

Also this is hillbilly Maine, code. The way they build to code wouldn't satisfy a third world country. I just moved here two years ago and was shocked on they way code is satisfied.

nazrin · Apr 28, 2009, 08:07 AM

Why couldn't I eliminate the inside 1x6 and just build the door frame and jam up against the 2x4 ruff opening, which will save me space?

21boat · Apr 28, 2009, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by ;

It is a load bearing wall with just the roof overhead gable end.

I missed the gable part Just so we are on the same page if that area is at the 'End" of the house ( pic 2 "Front-gabled" ) and it has manufactured roof trusses it should not be a bearing wall .

Roof Terms and Terminology

Lets tweak the math here. A pair of doors at 30" = 60" normally it's a 3/4 " jamb thickness so double jamb = 60 1/2" actual doors and frame . Now since the wood bean counters make the jambs less the 3/4 thick, About 1/8 less on each jamb, lost a 1/4" total. so we are down to 61 1/4. Opening max is 65 3/8. - 61 1/4 so we have 4 1/8 " left.

Now if we install the pre hung and one side tight against a perfect jack stud and 1/4 room to shim the perfect rough opening is 61 1/2"+ Back to the exact measurements which is 65 3/8". That leaves in a perfect world 3 7/8" left. Since its two inside corners to the outside wall and 2bs there two jack studs to = 3" out of 3 7/8 " that leaves 7/8" left over + the 3" jack studs in place.

Work it backward. 65 3/8 minus a jack stud on each side = 62 3/8 left. If prehung is 61 1/4 " that leaves 1 1/8 " left to set door off jack studs.

I run onto this to to many times in re haps when its to the enth. Power plane studs to get and 1/8 or a 1/4 that's needed. ( keep that in mind )

Works for me...

nazrin · Apr 28, 2009, 11:23 AM

Yes, I was wondering about that, the wall can't take much load with the roof pitch slopped at 90 degrees to the wall I'm working on.

nazrin · Apr 28, 2009, 11:28 AM

One other thing, outside walls are built out of 2x6's and even thou this is a inside wall it used to be an outside wall, so extra thick, Very cold up here

21boat · Apr 28, 2009, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by ;

Yes, I was wondering about that, the wall can't take much load with the roof pitch slopped at 90 degrees to the wall I'm working on.

Still a little vague on your wording. If that's an end wall and a gable roof and truss there is NO structural load on that end wall. The 90 degree is just a filler. Capping the truss A

Look at No # 2 on pic site I posted. I had a fight with an engineer about and end wall because of a footer rock problem and WON... They get nuts...

nazrin · Apr 28, 2009, 12:05 PM

Yes, I'm putting the double door on this end in relation to the roof

Front-gabled
Houses have the peak or gable facing the front.

Which is 90 degrees to the roof pitch slope side

21boat · Apr 28, 2009, 12:18 PM

That's a non bearing wall. The other clue was the adjacent walls perpendicular to the outside wall in that 65' alcove was added later that's the clue hear.

creahands · Apr 29, 2009, 03:35 AM

If the doors are 30 1/2 and 32 inches, u will be pressed to fit in opening.

If u set frame leg tight to jack stud (never perfectly plumb), u run the risk of doors getting hinge bound.

2 jack studs 3"
2 jamb legs 1 1/2"
Door 1 30 1/8"
door 2 32"
1/8''between
Door and jamb 1/4''

1/8'' between doors 1/8''

total 67 ''

The 1/8'' between doors and door/jamb needed to keep doors from getting hinge bound.

If both doors are 30'', u need 2 1/8'' less or 64 7/8''
This would leave u shimming room

Good luck

Chuck

nazrin · Apr 29, 2009, 04:36 AM

I hear you, 67"... My plan is to recess my jack studs 13/16" in the wall both sides to free up 1 5/8". So now my jack studs take up only 1 3/8 from the 65 3/8 which leaves me the 64 I need. I know it will be tight, I plan to frame it dead nuts so doors will hang without any shim work. I know this is wishful thinking but if I run into a problem to fit then the doors get the circular saw treatment.

Your post makes perfect sense to me, I was wondering about recommended clearance between and jam edge of doors

creahands · Apr 29, 2009, 05:48 AM

If u decide to cut doors, use a straight edge to guide saw.

If lock set isn't drilled, cut off both sides for looks. Bevel lock side at 5 degrees for easier closing

Chuck

nazrin · Apr 29, 2009, 06:26 AM

I have another question, I know the hinges recess (both sides), but looking at them closely I noticed that when the two hinge legs are closed and are perfectly parallel they seem to have a small clearance between. Will this blow my 1/8" clearance between the doors and make the doors hinge hang?

As to these door are needing to hang perfect the first time, this concerns me.

creahands · Apr 29, 2009, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by nazrin

I have another question, I know the hinges recess (both sides), but looking at them closely I noticed that when the two hinge legs are closed and are perfectly parallel they seem to have a small clearance between. Will this blow my 1/8" clearance between the doors and make the doors hinge hang?

As to these door are needing to hang perfect the first time, this concerns me.

No, if u set hinges flush to edge of door and jamb leg, the spacing will be OK. To mortise hinges u can use a chisel or router.

I use one leg of wooden ruler to set my space (1/8'').

Chuck

EZHangDoor · Jul 12, 2009, 04:09 PM

True... walls on gable ends are not load bearing. The eave ends of rafters or trusses are where the load is carried. So if the new doors are going in a gable end of the house; the header thickness shouldn't be an issue. Just be SURE it's not load bearing... this wouldn't be good as I am sure Maine may get a few inches of snow!

Rough opening for a double door is -single door width times 2 and add 2 inches.

nazrin · Jul 13, 2009, 04:09 AM

That's great, I installed my doors and it all went in great with the tight space I had.

nazrin · Jul 13, 2009, 04:09 AM

That's great, I installed my doors and it all went in great with the tight space I had.

21boat · Jul 13, 2009, 11:56 AM

Glad it went well! 1