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ljohnlevy · Apr 20, 2009, 02:47 PM

Hello, I have a 10 year old craftsman lawn tractor, 17.5 hp with Kohler engine. I have never had a problem with this tractor until recently. When I go to start the engine seems to freeze. It seems as though the flywheel under the hood wants to move, but seems stuck. After I hold the key in the start position for a while, it finally kicks over after about 10 seconds. I feel I am on borrowed time and wonder if this would be caused by the starter? Also when it finally kicks over, quite a bit of black smoke comes out the exhaust. More than usual.
I would appreciate any thoughts in the matter

Lou

21boat · Apr 20, 2009, 03:56 PM

I guess the first thing to check is do a compression check for the condition of the piston rings. If that goes well I would lean to the starter and check the gap for rust from the flywheel and ignition coil.

If that is good then it may be the starter is drawing to many amps or bad wire connections. With the plugs out turn key and see how the starter acts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsl3hC2TnZc

ljohnlevy · Apr 20, 2009, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

I guess the first thing to check is do a compression check for the condition of the piston rings. If that is good then it may be the starter is drawing to many amps or bad wire connections. With the plugs out turn key and see how the starter acts.

If that goes well I would lean to the starter and check the gap for rust from the flywheel and ignition coil.

Thanks 21boat for your reply. I am not a mechanic, but I can do basic repairs if told what to do. I don't know what you mean by checking the gap for rust from the flywheel. I am mechanically inclined, but not all that familiar with engines. Can it be walked through?

21boat · Apr 20, 2009, 04:19 PM

This is a visual that can help.
YouTube - Lawn Mower Repair Ignition Coil Test

If there is some rust in the flywheel/ coil gap that can cause some friction

mazak · Apr 20, 2009, 06:06 PM

Also,is the battery fully charged? Are the connections,to the battery clean and tight?

ljohnlevy · Apr 20, 2009, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

This is a visual that can help.
YouTube - Lawn Mower Repair Ignition Coil Test

If there is some rust in the flywheel/ coil gap that can cause some friction

Thank you for the lead. I watched it and followed what he talked about. I will try that this wkend, as I am working out of town at the moment. First I will try the battery and connections as posted below.

21boat · Apr 20, 2009, 07:11 PM

Get back if you still have problems , plenty of good people here to help out. Good luck.

ljohnlevy · Apr 25, 2009, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

Get back if you still have problems , plenty of good people here to help out. Good luck.

OK, I had the battery checked and battery was good. Re hooked it up and turned the key and nothing. Absolutely nothing. No sounds or movement of any kind. I only see one external component on the outside of the engine. It looks kind of like an oil filter, being cylindrical in shape. Could this be the starter? Could this be the problem?

mazak · Apr 25, 2009, 03:47 PM

Yes that should be the starter. Is there a wire going to it ?

It should look similar to this, not exact,but similar.

ljohnlevy · Apr 25, 2009, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by mazak

yes that should be the starter. is there a wire going to it ?

it should look similar to this, not exact,but similar.

Yes it has a red wire running to it and looks like the picture. Could this be the problem? And do I need a whole new starter or new parts for the starter.

21boat · Apr 25, 2009, 04:12 PM

Now that you have nothing its either the starter, or a safety switch or a bad solenoid bad ground/positive connection on the starter.

Lets test the solenoid which would also be a nothing when you turn the key.
Re check starter connections first. Jump the positive battery terminal to the starter and it should crank over. If not, the starter is bad. If good, then you will need to trace the entire circuit from the starter to the battery. The solenoid, switches the battery power to the starter, when power from the key switch is sent to the small terminal on the solenoid. To test the solenoid, first make sure that you have power at its large terminal which comes from the battery. Then jump power from that terminal or the battery positive post, to its small terminal. You should hear a click and the other large terminal that feeds the starter should be energized. If not, then the solenoid is bad. If good, then continue tracing the power through the key switch to the battery until you find the break in the power path. All testing can be done with a 12 volt light or a voltmeter. Most equipment has safety switches in the seat and on the blade engagement lever. Check them by temporarily bypassing with a small jumper wire

ljohnlevy · Apr 25, 2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

Now that you have nothing its either the starter, or a safety switch or a bad solenoid bad ground/positive connection on the starter.

Lets test the solenoid which would also be a nothing when you turn the key.
Re check starter connections first. Jump the positive battery terminal to the starter and it should crank over. If not, the starter is bad. If good, then you will need to trace the entire circuit from the starter to the battery. The solenoid, switches the battery power to the starter, when power from the key switch is sent to the small terminal on the solenoid. To test the solenoid, first make sure that you have power at its large terminal which comes from the battery. Then jump power from that terminal or the battery positive post, to its small terminal. You should hear a click and the other large terminal that feeds the starter should be energized. If not, then the solenoid is bad. If good, then continue tracing the power through the key switch to the battery until you find the break in the power path. All testing can be done with a 12 volt light or a voltmeter. Most equipment has safety switches in the seat and on the blade engagement lever. Check them by temporarily bypassing with a small jumper wire

OK, thanks for your prompt reply. How do I jump from the positive battery terminal to the starter? What do I use and what part of the starter do I attach it too?

21boat · Apr 25, 2009, 05:49 PM

Follow this and it should pin point the weak link in the system.

If the battery is good, check the voltage to the starter by taking a volt meter and grounding the black probe to a good ground and touching the red probe to the starter terminal. Turn the key. If all 12 volts are going to the starter and the engine still will not crank, then starter must be repaired. If less than 12 volts are going to the starter, check for exposed areas in the wiring which could cause a partial ground or corrosion. Remove the corrosion, if any, and tape up the wire with electrical tape.

After all the above checks have been done, finally check the starter solenoid. To check the solenoid, remove the wire from spade terminal. With a screw driver, touch the spade terminal and the hot side of the solenoid. If the starter turns, the starter solenoid is good and there is a problem in the safety switches. The solenoid is usually located on the back side of the accessories panel, in the engine compartment, on Riders and Tractors. On Rear Engine Riders, the solenoid is located under the seat or in a separate compartment. Follow the Positive (Red) battery cable to find the solenoid.

Hopefully this solves the mystery on what's wrong.

ballengerb1 · Apr 25, 2009, 07:53 PM

21, I got to tell you how much I enjoyed listening to that good ol boy , thanks for the video, I know guys like hi. LOL

21boat · Apr 25, 2009, 08:05 PM

Some times the good ol boy is the way to go..

Re posting here. I got the good ol boys beat on this one.. Driving 12' 71 alum roll up door box ( ice cream looking truck) through town. Clutch pedal went limp. Pulled over lifted inside engine cover. Looked down and clutch linkage rod broke. So used my 4" masons level to work the clutch fork by prying against the bell housing. 6 cylinder motor plenty of room. Now its steer let go of steering wheel jamb level to shift gear. Made it a friends warehouse in town. Had a 110 MIG in truck. Welded broken linkage and used a 4 penny Galv finish nail for a cotter pin to hook linkage back up.

The other story was fuel pump went out in truck and in a bad section of town and raining. Called Auto parts store for fuel pump. I have company charge there. After that I called out cities taxi cab service and had them pick up my fuel pump and deliver it to me on the side of the city road. Installed it from inside truck didn't get wet and on my way within an hour of brake down. Good ol boy works for me...

Took boat out, 85hp outboard. 30 miles from dock steering went out. Laid boat paddle on top of housing and duct taped paddle to top of motor cover. Instant tiller arm. Back guy steered. Me up from throttle man.

ballengerb1 · Apr 25, 2009, 08:07 PM

My best bud is from Lubbock, he good.

ljohnlevy · Apr 26, 2009, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

Follow this and it should pin point the weak link in the system.

If the battery is good, check the voltage to the starter by taking a volt meter and grounding the black probe to a good ground and touching the red probe to the starter terminal. Turn the key. If all 12 volts are going to the starter and the engine still will not crank, then starter must be repaired. If less than 12 volts are going to the starter, check for exposed areas in the wiring which could cause a partial ground or corrosion. Remove the corrosion, if any, and tape up the wire with electrical tape.

After all the above checks have been done, finally check the starter solenoid. To check the solenoid, remove the wire from spade terminal. With a screw driver, touch the spade terminal and the hot side of the solenoid. If the starter turns, the starter solenoid is good and there is a problem in the safety switches. The solenoid is usually located on the back side of the accessories panel, in the engine compartment, on Riders and Tractors. On Rear Engine Riders, the solenoid is located under the seat or in a separate compartment. Follow the Positive (Red) battery cable to find the solenoid.

Hopefully this solves the mystery on whats wrong.

Hey 21 boat, thanks for your help. I really appreciated it. A friend stopped over today to check on this for me and determined that it was the selenoid. He used a screw driver and jumped across something, lol and the engine cranked. I am sorry for acting so stupid not knowing how to jump or bypass things, but I am not an engine man at all. Other parts yes, not engines. I will order and replace it myself, now that I know what is is and what to do.
Thanks again!

Lou

21boat · Apr 26, 2009, 01:01 PM

I was going to mention the screw driver method but sparks scare people and if there was any fuel around that are form a flooded cab etc. Just going by the book

Don't worry about not being an engine man. You Got to start somewhere. Guys aren't born with wrenches in the hand and manuals in back pockets.

ljohnlevy · Apr 26, 2009, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

I was going to mention the screw driver method but sparks scare people and if there was any fuel around that are form a flooded cab etc. Just going by the book

Don't worry about not being an engine man. You Got to start somewhere. Guys aren't born with wrenches in the hand and manuals in back pockets.

Maybe someday when I have more time. I would like to learn from someone like you and be your apprentice. I am a carpenter and we could exchange brains for a while.

Take care and thanks again.

Lou

21boat · Apr 26, 2009, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by ;

maybe someday when i have more time. i would like to learn from someone like you and be your apprentice. i am a carpenter and we could exchange brains for a while.

I usually answer for the construction end but small engines is also in my hat. Not the best at it but can get through it.

That would be good. Actually I'm a General Contractor and do it all in house. My motor experience is from my young days as a motor head and then working on all the small engines we have for construction. Also turn wrenches on the job trucks and big dumps along with back hoes and crawler loaders. That is where I get the engine experience from.

To cheap to pay someone else to fix my stuff and what little I let out the door is not fixed right. Freaks out the customer when I tear the heads off the hoe on the site and fix it in the field literally

Any more engine problems come back. There are some sharp people here on the site. Somebody will pickup and run with it. The more brains the better the results.

Also if you have any construction problems there are some sharp knives here to cut through it for solving the problem

Good Luck