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31pumpkin · Sep 15, 2006, 03:40 PM

Is it feasible for Muslims to begin speaking about the good things in the Islamic religion instead of just reacting to another religion's speech about -ALL that they're seeing from Islam is violence in the name of religion ?

Would it be possible for Iran to do the right thing? Help Iraq economically(without Iraq losing democracy) ? Meanwhile, ridding Iraq of the militants? Or are they on the same side really as the militants? Very coomplex. Why doesn't the Ayatollah start telling us all that Islam is a peaceful religion that doesn't encourage violence?

If Iran could refrain from chemical enrichment, help Iraq with security & economy then we can make a bee line out of Iraq!

Your friend,
Dreamer:rolleyes:

RickJ · Sep 15, 2006, 03:46 PM

I, as a Christian, can say nothing but good about the "real Islam".
Islam is like Protestant Christianity: There IS no spokesperson for it as a whole... so you have to find the good in it in the man on the street, the guy on a forum, a neighbor in a local Mosque, etc...

... just my 1.5 cents worth.

Fr_Chuck · Sep 15, 2006, 04:33 PM

I believe as in all religions talk is very cheap but it is the actions of each group that tells us a lot about each one.

I see many groups calling thierself Christian, and yes they may feed the poor and clothe the poor, but are they following the rest of the bible?

I see many groups calling thierself Christian that have some very strange added ideas from other books, but also claim Christ as Lord and Savior,
Who am I do judge if they also follow the teachings of the bible.

As with Islam, I have read the Quran and honest see very little Islam in any of the political or militant groups ( actually see very little in any of the groups that are vocal that I have seen)
I have seen it in local groups living their day to day lives, but with any good thing, once you start using it to control people or as a political movement, man and his evil ( in any relgion) soon come out.

magprob · Sep 15, 2006, 05:55 PM

The people that are killing and bombing have very little to do with the real islam. These people are just ignorant, mindless little sheep that can do nothing on their own so they fall prey to the brain wash tactics of the evil, greedy bastards that really believe they can take over the world. They have never done anything good, built anything or created anything. They have no laws or social structure in place to protect anyone. They circumsize their women so they cannot enjoy sex since they are not man enough to satisfy a women. These idiots all need to be killed as soon as possible! If they leave their house for more than 5 hours, someone else moves in. the only way they can evict them is to kill them. We are dealing with complete morons and the only way to win is by simply killing every last one of them. If america does not unite and support this war on stupidity, the whole world is at risk of having these idiots running loose everywhere. If you have one ounce of compassion for them then you are a bigger idiot than they.:mad:

magprob · Sep 19, 2006, 05:39 PM

Morganite disagrees: I hate terrorism, but your mischaracterisation of them shows you do not know much about them. Shouting and hurling insults at them and others makes no positive contribution to the issue.

No, you just disagree with me and you always do. It doesn't matter though as I realize you are misinformed at best and a dullard most often. It is people like you that make AMHD so boring and uninspiring these days and the biggest reason I no longer have time for it. AMF

Fr_Chuck · Sep 19, 2006, 05:50 PM

I will say what I lack to see is any "main line" Islam standing up and saying the terrorism is wrong, Even our US national Muslim groups seem to side with the terrorist over the US.

On Liberal Radio today the liberal movement was taking the side of the leader of IRAN over the betterment of the US, This is very scary and hard to understand, that anyone could support those that support terrorism and have called for the destruction of the US. Iran denys the holocost happened with the Jews, and have called for all of the Jews to be wiped off the face of the earth. This compares to me of the KKK who also denys the holocost happened and want to merely take all the blacks ( maybe mexicans now, I understand they added them this last month) So why do the liberals not support the KKK if they can support Iran, ( just a silly comparison)

31pumpkin · Sep 19, 2006, 06:02 PM

Well, Bush spoke well at the U.N. today. Hopefully, it will take some of the attention off the Pope's speech. And the Pres. Of Iran, Ahmadinejah, speaking separately at the U.N. Whatcha think? I'll be praying for the peaceful "outcome" with Iran,etc. and for Pres. Bush. I think all efforts have to concentrate on each other living up to a common goal of peace and harmony. Or else we're hastening Jesus' return, pretty much. Who wants that kind of WAR?

Star Wars, can you see me? (if u know what I mean)

Krs · Sep 20, 2006, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by magprob

THE PEOPLE THAT ARE KILLING AND BOMBING HAVE VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH THE REAL ISLAM. THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST IGNORANT, MINDLESS LITTLE SHEEP THAT CAN DO NOTHING ON THEIR OWN SO THEY FALL PREY TO THE BRAIN WASH TACTICS OF THE EVIL, GREEDY BASTARDS THAT REALLY BELEIVE THEY CAN TAKE OVER THE WORLD. THEY HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING GOOD, BUILT ANYTHING OR CREATED ANYTHING. THEY HAVE NO LAWS OR SOCIAL STRUCTURE IN PLACE TO PROTECT ANYONE. THEY CIRCUMSIZE THEIR WOMEN SO THEY CANNOT ENJOY SEX SINCE THEY ARE NOT MAN ENOUGH TO SATISFY A WOMEN. THESE IDIOTS ALL NEED TO BE KILLED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! IF THEY LEAVE THEIR HOUSE FOR MORE THAN 5 HOURS, SOMEONE ELSE MOVES IN. THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN EVICT THEM IS TO KILL THEM. WE ARE DEALING WITH COMPLETE MORONS AND THE ONLY WAY TO WIN IS BY SIMPLY KILLING EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM. IF AMERICA DOES NOT UNITE AND SUPPORT THIS WAR ON STUPIDITY, THE WHOLE WORLD IS AT RISK OF HAVING THESE IDIOTS RUNNING LOOSE EVERYWHERE. IF YOU HAVE ONE OUNCE OF COMPASSION FOR THEM THEN YOU ARE A BIGGER IDIOT THAN THEY.:mad:

I am so proud of you :)
You are speaking the truth.

We need to watch our backs.
They are all brainwashed and greedy and you are so right in saying they believe they want to take over everywhere. I believe it too and plenty of people I know believe it too.
Look how ignorant they all are... did you all read what they said about the pope? For what he said which was just a quote off an old book. They read everything in the wrong manner and are now accepting a 'proper' apology from the pope, to me the Pope does NOT need to apologise to these people, he said nothing wrong. He spoke the TRUTH.

I so believe that's there scope, why? Because they are invading everywhere!

RickJ · Sep 20, 2006, 03:06 AM

As an aside, remember that what we hear on the news is what the MEDIA wants us to hear. They broadcast what will make them the most money, often regardless of it's value.

We rarely hear reports of the various Muslims who speak out against terrorism.

Here is a compilation page of some of them:
http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

And we rarely hear of organizations such as these:
Islam For Today
Islam Denounces Terrorism.com
Free Muslims Coalition
Muslims Against Terrorism
... etc...

K_3 · Sep 20, 2006, 08:28 AM

You are right Rick, but that goes for everything in the news. I do not want to be at war but I have talked to many soldiers coming back from Iraq and what they have to say is very different from what we hear on the news.

Skell · Sep 20, 2006, 04:55 PM

For every brainwashed Islamic person out there, there are just as many brainwashed Jews, Budhists, and God forbid, Christians.
I agree that Muslims do pose a threat to our way of life. And I am concerned about a number of the actions they are taking in this world today. But I also refuse to take Magprops train of thought that they are all like this and need to be killed!
It is clearly shown again how intolerance from members of all religions is our greeatest problem today!
The Pope proved it with his speech which was not necessary. Surely he could see that even touching on such a subject in today's climate would cause uproar in the Muslim community.
You see, they are just like the western culture. We get spoon fed our news from media such as CNN, and all we see is negative.
They get the same thing fomr Al Jazeer. They only see negative news in regards to the west.

I agree with RickJ. I watched a great episode of an American TV Movie "Over There" just the other night.. It showed the role the Media are playing in this war in Iraq. Not just the US media. But the Iraqi media as well!

Again, it comes down to Tolerance! Which Muslims are not the only guilt party!

31pumpkin · Sep 20, 2006, 07:36 PM

I have to disagree about the radical Islam. They are called the Taliban for one. I don't care how brainwashed they are from adding a violent version to their Holy Book, these are the ones that won't be tolerated. That's what our military is for.
A few words said by the Pope and a nun was shot and killed and churches were burned? We are not dealing with a civilized bunch here. Random beheadings...

So to say to Magprob was referring to all Islam was not reading his post correctly. He said the ones who were committing this violence weren't doing it in the name of Islam as I understood it.

And I don't think any other religion is going to such violent extremes lately. No I'm for nuking them right now, if we could find them.

Skell · Sep 21, 2006, 05:04 PM

You want to set off a nuclear weapon? Really?
Wow. Your scary! Im more scared of you then I am any radical islamist.
Unless your joking and I missed it... you must be!

Originally Posted by 31pumpkin

I think all efforts have to concentrate on each other living up to a common goal of peace and harmony. Or else we're hastening Jesus' return, pretty much. Who wants that kinda WAR?

Star Wars, can you see me? (if u know what I mean)

You say this above and then you say you want to use a nuclear weapon... hmmmn interesting.
Please tell me I am looking like an idiot here because I didn't get your joke. I will happily spend the rest of my time on this board with egg on my face if this is the case.

Originally Posted by 31pumpkin

So to say to Magprob was referring to all Islam was not reading his post correctly. He said the ones who were commiting this violence weren't doing it in the name of Islam as I understood it.

OK, I will agree with you here. He may not of been talking about Islam as a whole but his views were still in my opinion a little narrow minded.

31pumpkin · Sep 24, 2006, 11:22 AM

Since most of the rhetoric is in, I'm interested to see how relations from the middle east play out, of course.
It does seem political at this time. Peace lies in the hands of the leaders. Any radicalism that is evident is more in the followers that are brainwashed to do so. But you don't see the leaders of these militant groups martyring themselves, so I think there's hope for some of the troublesome groups to reach compromises politically. The religious fanaticism is fading. Is it just my perception because the leaders in question here like Iran & Hezbollah aren't spewing the extreme religious stuff?
What's to say if they all settle down & let that go. Could it even help the al-Qaeda resistance in Iraq? What if "death to the infadels" tones down & Bin laden is actually caught/killed? Seems to me in all these decades, there was never so much radical violence in the name of any religion.

javedahmad · Oct 11, 2006, 10:49 PM

For alternative views on Islam and 911, please visit http://www.geocities.com/javedahmad/ and http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

KAOSKTRL · Oct 17, 2006, 06:15 PM

Islam is the most Warlike religion
A Danish language researcher has spent over three years analyzing the original texts of ten different religions, and concludes that the Islamic texts stand out by encouraging terror and violence to a larger degree than other religions do. Four years after the terror attacks at the World Trade Center, Danish linguist Tina Magaard presents an analysis that questions Islam’s relationship with terror, violence and Holy War.

Islamic texts encourage terror and fighting to a far larger degree than the original texts of other religions, concludes Tina Magaard. She has a PhD in Textual Analysis and Intercultural Communication from the Sorbonne in Paris, and has spent three years on a research project comparing the original texts of ten religions.

“The texts in Islam distinguish themselves from the texts of other religions by encouraging violence and aggression against people with other religious beliefs to a larger degree. There are also straightforward calls for terror. This has long been a taboo in the research into Islam, but it is a fact that we need to deal with," says Tina Magaard. Moreover, there are hundreds of calls in the Koran for fighting against people of other faiths. “If it is correct that many Muslims view the Koran as the literal words of God, which cannot be interpreted or rephrased, then we have a problem.

It is indisputable that the texts encourage terror and violence. Consequently, it must be reasonable to ask Muslims themselves how they relate to the text, if they read it as it is," says Tina Magaard.The Copenhagen imams Ahmed Abu Laban and Abdul Wahid Petersen are greatly upset by the analysis presented by the linguist. Abu Laban: “I don’t want to confine myself to a single stupid, prejudiced and dishonest researcher. Why waste time on somebody who wants to create twisted ideas about Islam?” Abdul Wahid Petersen calls the analysis ”academic nonsense":
”You cannot single out quotes and conclude the way she does. Most verses in the Koran should be viewed within a specific historical context and cannot be generalized. If there are so many calls for violence,
Then why haven’t Muslims wiped out people of different faiths in the societies where Muslims make up the majority? Because we do not read the Koran that way.”
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/09...-religion.html

Afghan Jew Becomes Country's One and Only
A Single Death in Kabul Cuts Community in Half
By N.C. AizenmanWashington Post Foreign ServiceThursday, January 27, 2005; Page A10
KABUL, Afghanistan, Jan. 26 -- When Zablon Simintov found Ishaq Levin sprawled on the cement synagogue floor last week, he immediately realized two things: His housemate and archnemesis of nearly seven years was dead, and he was now in all likelihood the last Afghan Jew still living in the country.
"I'm not sad about that," Simintov said with a frown Wednesday. He acknowledged dryly that he would not miss Levin, an octogenarian who apparently died of natural causes. Simintov, 44, had feuded bitterly with him for as long as the two men occupied separate rooms in the ruins of the only remaining synagogue in Kabul.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan26.html

RickJ · Oct 18, 2006, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by KAOSKTRL

It is indisputable that the texts encourage terror and violence.

No. It is not indisputable. If it were, then we would not see Islamic groups like these out there.

Just because you believe something to be so does not mean it's indisputable.

KAOSKTRL · Oct 18, 2006, 06:13 AM

Its not terrorism its jihad.

galveston · Jan 17, 2007, 05:10 PM

The post by Kaosktrl brings us to something that must be dealt with if we are to understand the issue. The basic question is this: Are the violent Muslims a lunatic fringe, or are they actually fundamentalists? Does a deeper understanding of their Holy book lead them to peace, or violent jihad? Which sect within Islam is considered (by them) to be more fundamental? Within Christianity, we know who is fundamentalist and who is not. It should be the same within Isalm. (eg) Evangelicals are also fundamentalists, and Catholic and Episcopal are not. What do you Muslims think?

Morganite · Jan 17, 2007, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by galveston

The post by Kaosktrl brings us to something that must be dealt with if we are to understand the issue. The basic question is this: Are the violent Muslims a lunatic fringe, or are they actually fundamentalists? Does a deeper understanding of their Holy book lead them to peace, or violent jihad? Which sect within Islam is considered (by them) to be more fundamental? Within Christianity, we know who is fundamentalist and who is not. It should be the same within Isalm. (eg) Evangelicals are also fundamentalists, and Catholic and Episcopal are not. What do you Muslims think?

I once met a young Muslim scholar at a conference. He was quite vocal in support of his faith, and at one point I asked him if he was a fundamentalist. His reply illuminates the problem we sometimes have with certain words. After a significant pause, he replied that he was a fundamentalist, but that he was not a militant.

To many Muslims, jihad refers to their internal struggle towards shahada (obedience). It is similar to Christians wrestling against 'principalities and powers' in an internal spiritual struggle.

As a further illustration we need to look and see a certain kind of 'Christian' who not only feels justified in using violence, bombs, and gind to harm and kill those they have identified as the enemies of God, but who actually take up arms (and fists and feet) to make their points. These invariably point to the cleansing of the temple by Jesus as justification, and to the verse in Jude that instructs the saints to contend for the faith.

As disappointing as this might be for some, I do not support terrorism or violence in the pursuit of religion. I make that clear because I often speak in defence of other denominations and faiths who are being given an undeserved bad press. That does not mean that I follow their tenets and practices, but because I am of a different persuasion does not mean that I should stand idly by and watch as they are condemned for something they have not done.

Men and women of goodwill can make the world a better place, even as the bigots fight against peace and fairness. They must not be allowed to win.

M:)RGANITE