[HistorianChick]

I was just wondering if anyone had seen the episode of Trading Spouses last night.

I normally don't watch this show, but I was doing laundry and nothing else was on. I was immediately intrigued by the story line.

Self-proclaimed "God-warrior" Christian Mom traded families with a hypnotherapist, seemingly new-age (although she denied being new-age, I don't know what else to call it) Mom from Massachusetts. Being a Christian myself, I was appalled by the Christian Mom's insane fits of screaming and yelling "She's DARK-SIDED!"

And it caused me to wonder... If I was put in that situation, what would I do? I mean, I am a Christian. I go to church, I believe in Jesus, try to live a righteous life... all that goes along with Christianity. BUT I do not exclude friends that do not walk the same spiritual walk.

I have friends that are believers in so many different religions. Having lived in China for a couple years, I have Buddhist friends, agnostic friends, friends that believe in "nothing" and "something higher", friends from every walk of life, every political leaning, and also friends who choose alternate lifestyles.

I'm just wondering if taking that verse in Jude (hating the garments spotted by the flesh) is misconstrued to say hating the person spotted by sin. Kind of like the proverbial throwing of the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm just wondering what you all think of this. Maybe I'm too wishy-washy, but I believe whole-heartedly that Christianity is a lifestyle, not a religion. If I can't "love the unlovely" without even thinking of them as "unlovely," what good is my faith? Didn't Jesus eat with "publicans and sinners?" Why can't we, as 21st Century Christians do the same?

This episode really caused me to think...

[J_9]

This was a rerun from 2004 I believe. I actually got a good laugh out of it!

[HistorianChick]

It was something else, wasn't it! Wow.

[NeedKarma]

God-Warrior mom in an underground internet sensation.
Here's the youtube: YouTube - God warrior!

[classyT]

I didn't see the episode but I have a feeling it would have turned my stomach. I don't like people that make Christianity a laughing stock and I don't like the "holier than thou" tude either. People should WANT what a Christian has... not be appalled by it. The sinners that hung out with the Lord Jesus wanted to be there. It even says in the word that when the multitude heard him preach they listened with "DELIGHT". I think that says it all.

[HistorianChick]

I didn't see the episode but i have a feeling it would have turned my stomach. I don't like people that make Christianity a laughing stock and I don't like the "holier than thou" tude either. People should WANT what a Christian has .....not be appalled by it. The sinners that hung out with the Lord Jesus wanted to be there. It even says in the word that when the multitude heard him preach they listened with "DELIGHT". I think that says it all.

I wholeheartedly concur.

[templelane]

Those shows are funny but you can't believe they represent your average joe. They pick them for the shows because they are a little 'unbalanced' to say the least. I like the american version best because you've got a much bigger country than over here so it seems that bit easier to find proper polar extremes and reactionaries.

I can't help feeling it's a little voyeuristic but never mind!

[HistorianChick]

I'd never actually seen an episode of Trading Spouses before last night and honestly doubt if I'll ever watch it again.

I was just shocked at the extremes... and the so-called Christianity of the woman.

[jakester]

I was just wondering if anyone had seen the episode of Trading Spouses last night.

I normally don't watch this show, but I was doing laundry and nothing else was on. I was immediately intrigued by the story line.

Self-proclaimed "God-warrior" Christian Mom traded families with a hypnotherapist, seemingly new-age (although she denied being new-age, I don't know what else to call it) Mom from Massachusetts. Being a Christian myself, I was appalled by the Christian Mom's insane fits of screaming and yelling "She's DARK-SIDED!"

And it caused me to wonder.... If I was put in that situation, what would I do? I mean, I am a Christian. I go to church, I believe in Jesus, try to live a righteous life.... all that goes along with Christianity. BUT I do not exclude friends that do not walk the same spiritual walk.

I have friends that are believers in so many different religions. Having lived in China for a couple years, I have Buddhist friends, agnostic friends, friends that believe in "nothing" and "something higher", friends from every walk of life, every political leaning, and also friends who choose alternate lifestyles.

I'm just wondering if taking that verse in Jude (hating the garments spotted by the flesh) is misconstrued to say hating the person spotted by sin. Kind of like the proverbial throwing of the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm just wondering what you all think of this. Maybe I'm too wishy-washy, but I believe whole-heartedly that Christianity is a lifestyle, not a religion. If I can't "love the unlovely" without even thinking of them as "unlovely," what good is my faith? Didn't Jesus eat with "publicans and sinners?" Why can't we, as 21st Century Christians do the same?

This episode really caused me to think.....

HistorianChick -

I appreciate your thoughts about this episode of Trading Spouses. I recall seeing that woman several years ago behaving like a lunatic and invoking Christ in every one of her maniacal fits. She was really bizarre.

Like you, I wondered some of the same things about how I (as a Christian) would have behaved in the same situation. There was a time when I would have felt threatened by the hypnotherapist. But that was because I was not settled completely in what I believed, so whenever competing ideologies entered into the discussion, it was unnerving for me. I knew instinctively that there was validity to the gospel and that it made sense to me but I couldn't articulate it well nor defend it in the face of opposing viewpoints. Years later I have learned much about the nature of knowledge and learning, etc. It's clear to me now that sometimes it's a real messy process for people to go from one point in their understanding of God to a mature point. I wonder if you ever look back at points in your walk where you struggled with what you believed and maybe how you responded to people around you. It's been my experience that people I know (myself, really) who became Christians had all sorts of strange views early on in their faith and at times were unkind to those who believed differently. Thankfully, God is gracious and gives us room to grow and allows for mistakes. I'm saying all of this because to completely disparage the “God-warrior” woman would be unfair. If you think about it, her private life was completely put on display (by her own choice, of course) for everyone to see. I think these shows are a sort of microscope for everyone to peer down into for observation. We can easily become critical of the people we watch on television because there every move and discretion is there to observe and pick apart. I hate watching those shows because I actually feel embarrassed for the person. But my point is that if we wanted to, we could watch that show and find much fault in these people…and we would find faults in them because human beings are sinners (you and me included). If the tables were turned and you or I were on that show, people could easily find things in us that we would be ashamed for as well.

Ultimately, that woman (God-warrior) was acting foolishly. Your assessment of her not being compassionate was right as far as I am concerned. The truth is that God brings people from all walks of life into the kingdom of God. He brings whores, thieves, murderers, adulterers, and cruel people into his kingdom. King David was considered by God himself to be a “…man after his own heart.” Yet David committed adultery and was responsible for the murder of Bathsheba's wife. I would agree that the God-warrior's conduct and theology were way out of line and were extremely unloving. But if God is really working in her life, I think you would find over time that she would change. Her perspective on human beings would change; her commitment to loving others would grow. But none of us do these things always and perfectly and that is why we need Christ and his mercy. But there's a chance that this woman never really believed in God but was like the person who Jesus described in Matthew 7: “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.' That is a sobering thought and one that causes me to often reflect on my life and commitments. We cannot escape the reality of the deceitfulness of our hearts and so authentic faith and commitment to God is what is necessary. A commitment to loving God and loving our neighbor as ourselves is what real “Christianity” is. God help us to do it.

Lastly, historianchick, I appreciate your perspective on living with others of different views. It is incumbent upon us to understand where people are coming from and have compassion on them. But we also need to have compassion on those who are in process. What I mean is those who are in process of sanctification. The God-warrior woman should also be pitied along with the hypnotherapist. We often like to immediately discredit people like her and withhold mercy from them because they act like complete asses in the name of God. But God is merciful to sinners. We can learn from this woman and take away some practical wisdom from watching her failures. But she needs mercy and wisdom from God as well, not just the hypnotherapist. From my perspective, though, your heart is in the right place and I much appreciate what you had to say.

Sincerely.

[HistorianChick]

Jakester,

Thank you for your insightful post.

Yes, there was a time in my life where I re-evaluated my priorities and yes, religion. I was brought up from a very fundamental viewpoint and remained inside that bubble until I moved... to China. Having the freedom to not only make my own decisions, but being confronted with viewpoints and philosophies diametrically opposed to my own fundamentalist upbringing, it shook me to the core and really cemented what I really and truly, from the bottom of my heart, inner-core believed.

It also showed me the reality of compassion. The reality of an individual, coming to their own conclusions about life, health, wealth, and godliness or lack thereof. But ultimately, it was their decisions. Nothing I could do would change their beliefs.

I waffled in that "gray area" between "I can't change them" and "I don't agree!" for a while until I actually came to realize that I can respect anyone for their beliefs - that I should hold them in the same regard as I wished to be held.

Does that even make sense? I grew up with a holier-than-thou attitude and have since realized that it is wrong to think that, wrong to feel that, and wrong to think others should bow their own wills to my own.

It's all about balance. Having a belief and believing it with your whole heart. Being secure enough to KNOW what you know, believe what you believe, and walk in the way that you know you should walk without being offensive and in-your-face-"she's-dark-sided!!!".

With this system of thought, I can do as Jesus did and actually enjoy my time with my friends who do not believe what I believe. I can actually love them as family, treat them as equals, and not be affected by that. He didn't cringe at the thought of being around "sinners" or simply "bear it"... He actually preferred it! Something about "white-washed sepluchers" comes to mind!

This episode has certainly provoked a meaningful discussion - and for that, I am thankful.

[spitvenom]

GARGOYLES!! Heheheeehe

[HistorianChick]

GARGOYLES!!!!!!!!!!!!! heheheeehe

LOL!! Wow... :D

STARS!!

[jakester]

Jakester,

Thank you for your insightful post.

Yes, there was a time in my life where I re-evaluated my priorities and yes, religion. I was brought up from a very fundamental viewpoint and remained inside that bubble until I moved.... to China. Having the freedom to not only make my own decisions, but being confronted with viewpoints and philosophies diametrically opposed to my own fundamentalist upbringing, it shook me to the core and really cemented what I really and truly, from the bottom of my heart, inner-core believed.

It also showed me the reality of compassion. The reality of an individual, coming to their own conclusions about life, health, wealth, and godliness or lack thereof. But ultimately, it was their decisions. Nothing I could do would change their beliefs.

I waffled in that "gray area" between "I can't change them" and "I don't agree!" for a while until I actually came to realize that I can respect anyone for their beliefs - that I should hold them in the same regard as I wished to be held.

Does that even make sense? I grew up with a holier-than-thou attitude and have since realized that it is wrong to think that, wrong to feel that, and wrong to think others should bow their own wills to my own.

It's all about balance. Having a belief and believing it with your whole heart. Being secure enough to KNOW what you know, believe what you believe, and walk in the way that you know you should walk without being offensive and in-your-face-"she's-dark-sided!!!".

With this system of thought, I can do as Jesus did and actually enjoy my time with my friends who do not believe what I believe. I can actually love them as family, treat them as equals, and not be affected by that. He didn't cringe at the thought of being around "sinners" or simply "bear it"... He actually preferred it! Something about "white-washed sepluchers" comes to mind!

This episode has certainly provoked a meaningful discussion - and for that, I am thankful.

I appreciate what you said and your perspective on your experiences. I, too, started a fundamentalist and have had my views changed as well.

I guess I would just add one thing. Because we both have been "brought up" in the fundamentalist viewpoint, we can both be empathetic towards those who do not hold that view but also look back at where we once were and be compassionate towards those in that spot... imagine if you or I were cast away for the fundamentalist views we once held... we would have no chance for mercy.

That's my point overall. But I love what you said and respect your honesty and the road you traveled to get where you are now. I thank God for that.

Peace be with you.

[excon]

Hello again, History Chick:

I had never seen that before... It was horrendous. They kept showing closeups of her little daughter. If I had my way, that little girl would be removed from that household for her own safety. Being imbued with cult like Christianity such as this lunatic displayed is child abuse, pure and simple.

excon

[classyT]

HistorianChick -


But we also need to have compassion on those who are in process. What I mean is those who are in process of sanctification. The God-warrior woman should also be pitied along with the hypnotherapist. We often like to immediately discredit people like her and withhold mercy from them because they act like complete asses in the name of God. But God is merciful to sinners. We can learn from this woman and take away some practical wisdom from watching her failures. But she needs mercy and wisdom from God as well, not just the hypnotherapist. From my perspective, though, your heart is in the right place and I much appreciate what you had to say.

Sincerely.

Ahhh boy did you hit me in the gut with these comments. I Have REAL issues with so called Christians who act so unchrist like. I am much more forgiving of someone who doesn't proclaim the Lord than those that do and act horrible, holier than thou or flip flop in sound doctrine. In fact ,there is someone in my life right now that I would LOVE to smack upside the head for her sheer stupidity. LOL SEE, I'm just as wrong and ugly in my heart and I'm even WORSE, I KNOW better. Yes Jakester you are very wise. I love wisdom and it starts with seeing beyond the behavior. That is the epitome of the Holy Spirit in you. Thanks for your insight.

[jakester]

Ahhh boy did you hit me in the gut with these comments. I Have REAL issues with so called Christians who act so unchrist like. I am much more forgiving of someone who doesn't proclaim the Lord than those that do and act horrible, holier than thou or flip flop in sound doctrine. In fact ,there is someone in my life right now that I would LOVE to smack upside the head for her sheer stupidity. LOL SEE, I'm just as wrong and ugly in my heart and I'm even WORSE, I KNOW better. yes Jakester you are very wise. I love wisdom and it starts with seeing beyond the behavior. That is the epitome of the Holy Spirit in you. Thanks for your insight.

ClassyT - I know I have never met you before but I have a great deal of respect for you. I very much appreciate your honesty and transparency.

The thing I love about being a disciple of Jesus Christ is that we are all on a level playing field. We all are moral dunderheads and leave people in our wake. But an abundance of mercy and wisdom from God will help to make us wiser. To me, being able to rightly see ourselves for who we really are is a sign of the Spirit at work in our hearts, as you pointed out... so, sister, I too, see the Holy Spirit in you.

Charis and Shalom to you.