[cozyk]

I didn't know whether to put this in religion or politics, or health, or what. So, here goes..


From Times Online
March 17, 2009
Pope says condoms are not the solution to Aids - they make it worse
Pope Benedict XVI waves as he boards an Alitalia Boeing 777 at Fiumicino Airport

The Pope departing for Africa today - his first trip to the continent
Richard Owen in Rome

The Pope courted further controversy on his first trip to Africa today by declaring that condoms were not a solution to the Aids epidemic – but were instead part of the problem.

I heard the above on the news this morning and was shocked. I certainly hope that Catholics that hang on his every word don't hang on those.:(

[450donn]

So, does this mean that the pope like all the previous popes are so far out of touch with reality that they are nothing more than? Not trying to disparage the office, but if condoms do not help prevent aids, other than abstinence what does?

[jakester]

In all fairness, I think the guy may have been saying that doling out condoms to people is not a long-term solution to the AIDS epidemic on the continent. I suppose that the context of what he was saying was that encouraging people to use condoms instead of encouraging people to remain celibate or being committed to a monogamous relationship was ultimately the wrong approach. Why? Because the more that people who engage in promiscuous sex come to rely on condoms to prevent disease, the more likely they are to take more risks sexually and condoms are not 100% safe—although the alternative is much less safe. I don't think the pope was disputing the fact that condoms are safer nor was he making the case that condoms are somehow more dangerous than unprotected sex, I think he was merely making the point that to not address the real issue—the morality of sex—but to keep handing out condoms is not going to solve this problem.

I'm not Catholic and I'm not trying to defend the pope because I am somehow committed to following him... but it just seems to me that his words are being taken out of context by the excerpt above, maybe. If he was truly saying that condoms are inherently more dangerous than unprotected sex, just as a matter of fact, then I agree with you cozyk and 450donn that those words are really out of touch.

[arcura]

jakester,
I agree with you.
Handing out condoms only encourages more sex rather than not having sex.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[450donn]

And sadly Fred, Not handing out condoms does not automatically mean that people will not have sex!
So which is better. Handing out condoms in the hope that sexually active people will use them or tell them that abstinence is the only way and you will go to Hell of you have sex?

[arcura]

Don
It is best that that people do not participate in the modern "sex revolution".
Free and easy sex is one of the great curses people spread.
Fred

[450donn]

don
It is best that that people do not participate in the modern "sex revolution".
Free and easy sex is one of the great curses people spread.
Fred

I repeat what I said Fred
Not handing out condoms does not automatically mean that people will not have sex!
So which is better. Handing out condoms in the hope that sexually active people will use them or tell them that abstinence is the only way and you will go to Hell of you have sex?

Come on Fred, please answer a question for once.

[NeedKarma]

don
It is best that that people do not participate in the modern "sex revolution".
Free and easy sex is one of the great curses people spread.
Fred

I think hatred is the great curse that people spread. I think sex is nice.

[arcura]

Don,
I thought that I answered your question.
Abstinence IS the best way to avoid sex transmitted diseases and other sex priblems.
No I will not say that if you have sex you will go to hell.
That is for God to decide not me or you.
God knows the heart and mind of each one of us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Fr_Chuck]

Part of the issues, when used as instructed, they have a failure rate of 3 percent, The percentage of failure when used as normal is estimated at 10 percent,

So they give somewhat a unreal level of protection to those that believe they will be 100 percent effective for the users.

The idea is that the only real protection is just not having sex, sex only in marriage with no cheating, and the aids issue will almost disappear.

So in reality the Pope has the only real cure or end to the cause of the problem, uncontrolled sexual behavior.

[JoeCanada76]

I didn't know whether to put this in religion or politics, or health, or what. So, here goes..


From Times Online
March 17, 2009
Pope says condoms are not the solution to Aids - they make it worse
Pope Benedict XVI waves as he boards an Alitalia Boeing 777 at Fiumicino Airport

The Pope departing for Africa today - his first trip to the continent
Richard Owen in Rome

The Pope courted further controversy on his first trip to Africa today by declaring that condoms were not a solution to the Aids epidemic – but were instead part of the problem.

I heard the above on the news this morning and was shocked. I certainly hope that Catholics that hang on his every word don't hang on those.:(

Maybe its because I am catholic or that I have another way of thinking about this. You know what Condoms are not the solution to the Aids epidemic. That is true, and it is not because the Pope is saying it. Education about diseases, and many other factors that cause the spread so wildly in africa are in need of looking at. Condoms can cause a false sense of security. Aids is an epidemic and what needs to be done is to find a cure and educate people on how to avoid spreading it.

[arcura]

Fr_Chuck,
EXACTLY!!
Thanks,
Fred

[450donn]

Part of the issues, when used as instructed, they have a failure rate of 3 percent, The percentage of failure when used as normal is estimated at 10 percent,

So they give somewhat a unreal level of protection to those that beleive they will be 100 percent effective for the users.

The the idea is that the only real protection is just not having sex, sex only in marriage with no cheating, and the aids issue will almost disappear.

So in reality the Pope has the only real cure or end to the cause of the problem, uncontrolled sexual behavior.

While this is a wonderful idea and in a perfect World would certainly be the answer. In the sex charged world that we live in this is pure fantasy. So saying that condoms is not the answer is sort of stupid don't you think?

[excon]

Handing out condoms only encourages more sex rather than not having sex.

Hello Fred:

I'd heard that before.. So, I put it to the test...

I want sex right now. I don't have a condom. I ran out to the drug store and bought a condom. I held it tightly in my hand and thought really hard... But, I didn't want sex any more WITH a condom, than I did WITHOUT one.

Maybe you have a different experience. Or, maybe you just believe the crap you're told. I don't know.

excon

[cozyk]

Maybe its because I am catholic or that I have another way of thinking about this. You know what Condoms are not the solution to the Aids epidemic. That is true, and it is not because the Pope is saying it. Education about diseases, and many other factors that cause the spread so wildly in africa are in need of looking at. Condoms can cause a false sense of security. Aids is an epidemic and what needs to be done is to find a cure and educate people on how to avoid spreading it.

It's not that condoms replace education. It's not that condoms replace moral judgment. It's just that it is a VERY stupid thing to not encourage , even DIScourage the use of condoms when they could save lives of those not privy to the education or moral aptitude.

[arcura]

excon,
LOL
Your are joking, right?
Fred

[arcura]

cozyk,
The fact is that condoms are really not safe.
The fact is that the use of condoms will not stop the aids epidemic.
Not having promiscuous sex WILL help stop it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[excon]

Your are joking, right?

Hello again, Fred:

Well, I am being my usual wisea$$, but no, I'm not joking. I don't believe that condoms promote sex, any more than I believe that sex education promotes sex. I believe that sex promotes sex.

Here's my example for that. It's true, by the way. My first memory of sex was when I was about 3. My mom took me into a department store. I looked up a manikins dress. Of course, there was nothing to see, and I didn't know what I was looking for anyway... But, I sure did like what I was seeing...

When I finally LEARNED what it was that I was looking for, my desire to see it again didn't grow stronger.

excon

[cozyk]

cozyk,
The fact is that condoms are really not safe.
The fact is that the use of condoms will not stop the aids epidemic.
Not having promiscuous sex WILL help stop it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Oh Fred, you are leaving out many segments of our earths population.
Not everything that is related to sex other than sex between two health married people is "promiscuous". From now on I will refer to the married sex as "proper sex".

What do you say to the aids infected person that contacted it during another time in their life and now has a committed partner/spouse? Should they refrain from sex forever? And don't forget the innocent victims that have gotten aids through blood transfusions, dental work, accidentally stuck with needles, are rape victims, or born with it. Are you and the pope saying they should lead a life of celibacy?

I am in no way promoting promiscuous sex. But neither am I naïve enough to think that "proper sex" is the ONLY way to greatly reduce the aids epidemic. Notice I did not say wipe out, I said greatly reduce. And isn't it better to use all things at our disposal, education, moral examples, and condoms than to totally count on "proper sex" to stop it.

I just think the popes statement was very irresponsible and short sited. And unfortunately, there are still people that believe if the pope said it, it must be right.

[arcura]

Cosyk,
You have made some good valid points.
In no way do I think that having "proper sex' is the ONLY way to prevent the spread is AIDS.
BUT it is a very good way to slow the spread down to a crawl.
Thanks for offering your points.
Fred