[Stubits]

Ok, so I am pretty sure it is 3" all the way through. I can post a picture if you want, but there is a number 3 on both hubs. I didn't see any other text, although the pipe that runs down through the slab is embossed with the words "permanent pipe."

Now, not sure if this matters, but it is unlikely all of this will ever be going at the same time. Also, we have a new high efficiency washer.

Any thoughts?

[massplumber2008]

The newer high efficiency washing machine is actually what I was concerned about.. LOL

Here I would have to refer you to that local inspector you said you would talk to regarding wet venting (although plumber friend said was OK).

I think you are pushing the limits. In my area you can have a great number of fixture units on a 3" drain line, but 3 toilets is maximum (in some areas TWO is maximum)... and now the high efficiency washer plus all the fixtures... hmmmm?

Always best to check with local authority.

I'll draw the plan up tomorrow sometime... based on wet venting... :)

Let me know the details as you get them.

.

[Stubits]

Mark-

Thanks so much.

Out of curiosity, why is the high efficiency washer worse? I thought it uses less water?

Let's not worry about the washer. It would have been easier to tie it into this, but there is another option all together. No worries. Let's just stick with the additional 1.5 baths?

Still waiting on a call back from the inspector... they're not particularly helpful/friendly/responsive here. But I feel confident on the wet venting thing, the plumber I spoke to is licensed and does plenty of work here.

[massplumber2008]

The high efficiency washer uses less water but the new pumps pump at a greater volume and pressure than the older pumps did.

Check with that inspector to see MAXIMUM number of toilets on a 3" drain line in your area... we can take it after that... ;)

Thanks...

MARK

[Stubits]

Mark-

I finally heard from the inspector right before I left.

He confirmed that wet venting is allowed.

He referred me to the IPC and indicated the following regarding fixture units:

WC=3
Lav=1
Tub=2
Washer=2

So, I have 3 WC(9), 3 Lav(3), 2 Tub(4) and possibly 1 washer(2), so at most I have 18 fixture units.

He added the that I can have the following:

Horizontal Branch= 20 units

Total per Branch Interval=20 Units
Total for Stack of 3 Branch Intervals or less=48 Units
Total for Stack of More than 3 Branch Intervals=72 Units

He also indicated that with a 1/4" slope we can have up to 42 units on the main drain

So, he said, without of course reviewing any specific plans, that I should be fine, even with the washer.

Am I totally missing something here?

Thanks!

[massplumber2008]

Nope... just wanted to be absolutely sure.. ;)

Let me know where you are planning for the washing machine... add it into the drawing and I'll draw up a final print... ;) I won't be on until later tonight.. ;)

MARK

[Stubits]

Thanks so much. I am glad everything seems in order.

The washer is more of an add on here and is actually not a part of the addition. There is a closet on the main level of the home (where the powder room will be added) where we would like to place the washer. It is located such that the drain from the washer would tie into the new 3" horizontal run after it enters the existing house from the addition. My thoughts on the vent would be to run it under the 2nd level floor and tie it into the powder room vent. Can this work?

[Stubits]

Mark-

Just checking in on this. Not sure I can add the washer to the diagram as it is on the other side of the home. Maybe I can explain it though. It is on the same level as the powder room. The drain would be a straight shot to the horizontal 3" running from the addition to the main drain, somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd long sweep.

Thanks again for everything!

[massplumber2008]

OK... I'll work it in where you mentioned. I'll draw this all up over the next day or so, but will definitely post all by Saturday sometime...

Talk then...

[Stubits]

Mark-

Just seeing this now. Thanks, I can't appreciate your help more!

Can't wait to see what you come up with.

Many thanks and best!

[Stubits]

Bump?

[massplumber2008]

I got the BUMP... ;) I'll work on this tonight. I should have it posted by early AM.

[Stubits]

You're great. Thanks!

[massplumber2008]

Sometimes... just need the extra reminder is all... :)

Thanks.

Hi Stubits:

To begin with... when you lay out the joists for the new addition make sure that the first joist in from the outer wall does NOT end up anywhere near 12-15" to center from the finish wall....if it does you will end up having to cut or head the joist off...so be aware of toilet rough when laying out the joists upstairs and downstairs..ok?

Next, if you install the tub as you drew it with the shower valve on the end opposite the outside wall then you will need to add an 1.5" vent for the tub... it will be too far away to utilize the wet vent from the sink. I drew the 3rd floor bath with the tub being wet vented (in other words I turned the tub toward the outside wall as I figured the pipes would be exposed since this is a clawfoot tub... right?). If you decide to keep it the way you presented it then yoou will need to add the individual vent and connect that back into the vent pipe from the sink or washing machine.

I did not include al the 90s you mentioned... you can place them as needed. I did include the washing machine with a rough idea of how to install it.

Most important with the washing machine is that you pipe it 2" with a 2" ptrap and the standpipe coming out of the trap should be about 30" tall (keep fittings close to floor for this to work out well.

The toilet closet flange roughs in at 12" from the rough stud wall.

The sink drain should be between 18" (for vanity) and 20" (for pedastal) off the finish floor.

The tub drain will need to be determined by where you intend to place your clawfoot tub. The waste line usually transitions over to the tub waste and overflow assembly below the floor but with a desanco fitting about 1/2" above the finish floor. We can discuss this more later.

I have included two drawings. One is a side view diagram. The other is a top down view (waste pipes only)... hopefully, combined these will make sense.

Check out the drawings and let me know if you have any questions...

MARK

[Stubits]

Wow, this is great!

Couple of really immediate questions, I am sure mostly because I am not accustomed to reading these diagrams.

First, in general, is the main 3" stack located in upper right hand corner?

Second, on the full bath, is the toilet located on the same wall as the lav?

Never mind! Looking at the second set of drawings, it is totally clear.

OK, so some real questions...

What do you mean when to roll the wye above the center of the drain?

Also, how accessible do the cleanouts have to be?

Finally, I read, somewhere, I don't know where, that if you have multiple 90's, but they are less than 40' apart you only need one cleanout? Yes, no?

[massplumber2008]

On the 1/2 bath, you want to roll the 3"x2" wye above the center of the drain line for the vent to be a legal vent.

On the full bath you want to roll the 3" x2" wye above the centerline for the same reason as above, but the 2" wye for the tub can come off the 2" drain line it shares with the sink just slightly cocked above center.

Cleanouts need to have 18" minimum clearance and need to be accessible. After 2 90s I would install another cleanout. Easy/cheap to install now... sucks later... ;) Just in case the inspector insists on extra ones... you know?

Keep 'em comin'...

Post more questions when they come up... I'm off for now. I'll be back on later tonight!

[Stubits]

First, what does 18" of clearance mean? The cleanouts can be installed behind an access panel, right?

What type of fitting is used to connect the vents on the vertical?



Also, curious about implementation.

So, the floor joists will actually run just the way you drew them in your diagram (great job!), they will be 2x12, and in fact in the 3rd floor I will sister them just to ensure they hold the weight of the tub.

First, the plan is to run them 16" on center, as such the first floor joist in should be about 15.25" off from the wall, will that work? If not, how is this usually handled?

Given the size of the joists, I should have no problems running the 2" tub drain, right?

How about running the 2" vent pipes in a 2x6 exterior/load bearing wall? How about a 2x4 exterior/load bearing wall?

[massplumber2008]

18" clearance simply means that there cannot be anything... except an access panel... in front of a 3" cleanout for at least 18"... so a plumber can snake the drain without obstruction.

To install the vents into the vertical stack you will use either a sanitary tee or a double sanitary tee fitting. This fitting needs to be turned UPSIDE DOWN so rain water can run down the stack and whatever water flows into the sanitary tee will drain back to the pipes by gravity...

Note here, that all vents pitch away from the stack toward the drain at about 1/4" pitch per foot (see picture). Drains pitch at 1/4" per foot toward the stack.

Now, the joists... I just wanted to be sure you understand that the first joist must be taken seriously as it could have consequesnces down the road. As long as you actually stick to 16" on center...you should be fine!

No problem on 2"x12" for tub drain. On a 2"x6" joist you would need to keep the drain/trap high up in the joist bay to install the trap properly. With a 2"x12" joist...run pipe as gravity allows. Ptrap depth should NOT be an issue here...;)

A 2" vent requires a 2-9/16" hole which works fine in a 2"x4" exterior load-bearing wall (3.5" wide). It is really no different than installing a 4" pipe in a 2"x6" wall. As odd as it seems.. it is permissible!

Keep throwin' them out as you think them up...

[Stubits]

Ok, so far everything is making tremendous sense. The graphics are excellent. Just out of curiosity, what program did you use for the DWV drawings?

Ok, so two more questions...

1) This is a very simple question, but how exactly do you measure the 1/4" pitch. I am sure you must use a level, but are there any hints or tricks? Where on the level is 1/4"?

2) How do I tie into the cast iron stack? I know I need to support the stack, right? Any tricks or tips here? Then, how do I go about cutting the stack, can I use a metal blade on my reciprocating saw? Is there something better? How much do I cut out? What fitting do I use to tie in?

[massplumber2008]

I use my paint program... ;) Then I save as a JPEG file so it will fit the size requirements of the site.

In terms of pitching pipes at 1/4" per foot... if you use a two foot level you can tape a 1/2" block of wood (or metal) on one end of the level and then when you place it on the pipe and it reads level you know you have 1/4" pitch per foot of pipe.

If you use a 1 foot level, tape a 1/4" piece of wood. If you use a 9 inch torpedo level you would tape a 3/16" piece of wood, etc...

In terms of supporting the cast iron stack you will want to purchase a RISER CLAMP (see pictures)... install under a HUB if possible and then use 2"x4" studs under the ears to support the hanger (see other picture).

You can use a reciprocating saw with a bimetal blade (8-10 teeth per inch) or a diamond sawzall blade by Lennox (if you can find it at a local plumbing supply store). You could also rent a snap cutter... but I don't recommend it for this case as it can also crush pipes and cause even more work for you. Stick with the sawzall.

Whn you plan for the cut, measure the fitting and add 3/4" to total length to be cut from the stack... this will help to accommodate the RIBS in between the clamps and allow a little play for a slightly crooked cut.

Finally, use shielded clamps (cast iron x cast iron) and 3" NO-HUB cast iron sanitary tee fittings... do not install PVC into the stack... OK? The NO-HUB cast iron fittings are available at all plumbing supply stores. Then transition to plastic using a 3" cast iron to 3" plastic shielded clamp... ;)

Let me know if need more...

MARK