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jon123 · Mar 11, 2009, 09:40 AM

Was wondering how to avoid removing /repositionong existing stops when I'm just doing blank doors and not prehungs. Although the replacements are pretty much standard thickness, I have had to remove and reposition the stops in some cases. I guess It is easier to slightly rotor the butt hinges slightly less or more depth of thickness side of door? This way instead of trying to template exactly the butt hinges.. you can avoid tight stops by offsetting slightly the butt hinges to be cut. I have found over the years that jams settle etc.. It is a good idea to less or shave less than the exact template for door replacements. If there is a step by step trick for this , I'd be grateful to learn! Thank you! John

21boat · Mar 11, 2009, 07:13 PM

There's different way to do this. If the header and hinge jamb are square I just measure off if the header to first hinge and square that on the door for first hing location. Do the same for the rest. Always measure off the header. Watch when you do that because when you PUSH the tape in header and then pull on door you can loose an 1/8+ because of the tape moving. Here is where a folding rule is good. Another way is to use small square. Square out from jamb hing location and transfer that to jamb face. No with shims set door in opening and shim to hinge jamb tight. Check for 1/8 clearance on head or what you prefer. Now the door is ready to mark exact location of all hinges to door. Take door out of opening. After that use small square and flush from face of jamb to back of hinge on jamb. This will set the "back set" of hinge on new door. It flushes door to face on jamb.

If you have a parallelogram, door in opening tight to hinge side. Raise up with a roofing bar/ wonder bar. If the hinge side hits first then look at strike side/header and take that remaining gap off hinge side top of door. After that's cut door in opening door against jamb strike side and scribe that. Now back in opening to locate/transfer new hinges locations. I did the step in three to be more accurate instead of scribing header and strike jamb first. ALWAYS work from hinge side as a base plane.

If header is out of square to hinge jamb. Shim blank door in opening. Use a compass to scribe door to header and or latch side of jamb. Keep door tight to hinge side.

If you run into trouble and need to shim hinges get back. There are four locations on A hinge side leaf ti shim or 8 if you count both leafs of 1 hinge

NOTE: weather painting door or staining door. NEVER forget the bottom of door and all edges. Many people paint the door and forget. The bottom is the culprit where a door gets its moisture to swell and stick in jamb during the humid days.

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jon123 · Mar 11, 2009, 08:32 PM

Thank you for the tips, sometimes If an existing jam is just enough out of square, I'll just resort to using my dremel door planer for a quick fix. However sometimes If I feel it is worth straightening out (resquaring) I'll take the long way and remove the casings and shim to square.My question was that some old 1 3/8 thick interior doors are slightly thicker ( maybe because of paint in some cases) so scribing the hinges exactly onto the newer slightly thinner 1 3/8 replacement door might cause the new door to bind on the existing stops on the jam. So if I set back the new hinge mortese by like a 1/16th instead of transferring the exact butt cut.. the new door will be less likely to bind on the existing stops. And from there I can always remove more from the butt cut if the stop calls for the cut. But thank you too for sharing!

21boat · Mar 11, 2009, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by ;

So if I set back the new hinge mortise by like a 1/16th instead of transferring the exact butt cut.. the new door will be less likely to bind on the existing stops. And from there I can alway remove more from the butt cut if the stop calls for the cut. But thank you too for sharing!

I really never removed the jambs and casings to do a retro. At worst just the door slam/stops. If the opening it twisted. Mortising the hinge will only bring the door closer to the jamb. Changing the 'back Set" on hinge location will keep door from binding on stops/slam strips.

Can you explain more.

I can alway remove more from the butt cut if the stop calls for the cut. But thank you too for sharing!

When I mentioned scribing onto the new door that was Only for the Hinge height locations. Not the back set. That's next with small adjustable square after you determined the back set. Back set is not routing in the hinge. Just so we are on the same spot here

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jon123 · Mar 11, 2009, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

I really never removed the jambs and casings to do a retro. At worst just the door slam/stops. If the opening it twisted. Mortising the hinge will only bring the door closer to the jamb. changing the 'back Set" on hinge location will keep door from binding on stops/slam strips.

Can you explain more.?

I can alway remove more from the butt cut if the stop calls for the cut. But thank you too for sharing!

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That is what I was after "back set" on the hinge will keep the new door from binding on the stops. I understand you well and you helped me out thanks!

jon123 · Mar 11, 2009, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

I really never removed the jambs and casings to do a retro. At worst just the door slam/stops. If the opening it twisted. Mortising the hinge will only bring the door closer to the jamb. changing the 'back Set" on hinge location will keep door from binding on stops/slam strips.

Can you explain more.?

I can alway remove more from the butt cut if the stop calls for the cut. But thank you too for sharing!

When I mentioned scribing onto the new door that was Only for the Hinge height locations. Not the back set. Thats next with small adjustable square after you determined the back set. Back set is not routing in the hinge. Just so we are on the same spot here

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Understand, so you can use an adjustable square to pick up off the stop to existing hinge cuts in the jamb. Transfer that to the new door. Thus assuring an accurant "back set" I think I got it now!

21boat · Mar 11, 2009, 08:55 PM

That should keep you from binding on the hinge. If you get into a shim situation I can greatly help you there. Commercial and res doors are one of my expertise. Especially on re-hap

Another side not many of the old doors knob back sets are to close to strike side of door. Knuckel buster Now that can be changed if needed. "Blank door"

Glad to help

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jon123 · Mar 11, 2009, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by jon123

understand, so you can use an adjustable square to pick up off the stop to existing hinge cuts in the jamb. Transfer that to the new door. thus assuring an accurant "back set" i think i got it now!

The small adjustable square you sit in the mortese and the rule to stop, tighten the square and transfer that to new door to het accurate "set back" I suppose scribes would work but not as accurate as a tiny square.. UNderstand now unless you think I can use some more tips. Much appreciated

jon123 · Mar 11, 2009, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

That should keep you from binding on the hinge. If you get into a shim situation I can greatly help you there. Commercial and res doors are one of my expertise. Especially on re-hap

Another side not many of the old doors knob back sets are to close to strike side of door. Knuckel buster Now that can be changed if needed. "Blank door"

Glad to help

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I bought some new door tool accessaries an irwin door lock installation kit with a new innovative design.. a scoring latch indicator.. also bought another cool tool blu mol door latch mortise tool I use free hand my laminated ryobi trim router ( set debt) and use a mortise bit.. how do you cut for round hinges? Is 75 bucks a door (labor) a lot or what is the going rate on avg. Thank you and good night!

jon123 · Mar 11, 2009, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

That should keep you from binding on the hinge. If you get into a shim situation I can greatly help you there. Commercial and res doors are one of my expertise. Especially on re-hap

Another side not many of the old doors knob back sets are to close to strike side of door. Knuckel buster Now that can be changed if needed. "Blank door"

Glad to help

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Yeah , I follow you, I really don't have much problem with the latch plates.. I bend them to suite the knob latch, and if I need to move the latch plate to adjust. I'll use longer screws and sometimes filler.

21boat · Mar 11, 2009, 09:26 PM

Another on I forgot. If you need to actually cut down the door use duct tape on both sides of the door where the cut is going to be. Then you can pencial on that tape for a cut line. Cut with plywood blade. I use a carb blade all teeth so to speak. The tape will help stop the wood fibers from lifting off the cut edge. Take a block sander and very slightly bevel that edge with block sander. This tightens up the grain and keeps it from splintering. Especially when handling the door or setting it down to work on. I use a roofing wonder bar for a nice flat pry bar the I can work with my foot. It takes two people to scribe a door in well. Need one to pry it up and hold. One on other side to scribe,

That little adjustable square is the tool. I usually have two handy. One to transfer line from jamb hinge ( if its removed ) and one pre set for the door hinge back set.

When routing in a hinge use a utility knife to cut pencil line that was scribed on the new door edge. Then when you route it that knifed lined peels away and keeps you from routing outside of the pencil line.

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jon123 · Mar 11, 2009, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

Another on I forgot. If you need to actually cut down the door use duct tape on both sides of the door where the cut is going to be. Then you can pencial on that tape for a cut line. Cut with plywood blade. I use a carb blade all teeth so to speak. The tape will help stop the wood fibers from lifting off of the cut edge. Take a block sander and very slightly bevel that edge with block sander. This tightens up the grain and keeps it from splintering. Especially when handling the door or setting it down to work on. I use a roofing wonder bar for a nice flat pry bar the I can work with my foot. It takes two people to scribe a door in well. Need one to pry it up and hold. One on other side to scribe,

That little adjustable square is the tool. I usually have two handy. One to transfer line from jamb hinge ( if its removed ) and one pre set for the door hinge back set.

When routing in a hinge use a utility knife to cut pencil line that was scribed on the new door edge. Then when you route it that knifed lined peels away and keeps you from routing outside of the pencil line.

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Understood, I use a 42 tooth carbide and tape both sides of bottom and score with a knife too I use my 4ft level as a fence and plastic craftsman clamps, I like my portacable circular and always cut the bottom.. the only cutting on the top is for custom fit shorter than 80 and I know the styles limitations on hollow doors. Thank you for the knife trick too.. I was just using the router to pencil scribed hinge, I will use that from now on.

21boat · Mar 11, 2009, 09:53 PM

I was talking about the actual knob. Not the 'Strike plates" Or as you call it latch plates.

After you put in the new knobs and you find your self a tad off in height from the door knob plunger hitting the strike plate off vertically. You can either file the strike plate or shim the door on the hinges if there is enough 'reveal"/ gap on both sides of the door.
If a top hinge is shimmed back a 1/32+ and the bottom hinge is shimmed out 1/32+. This will greatly raise the height of the knob plunger to hit the strike plate and latch. Reverse that to lower the plunger to strike location.
I remember when luan doors had much bigger rails in for cutting down the tops and bottoms. At times we have to cut off the bottom. Peel away glued rail to luan. Belt sand that and "replug" the bottom of the door. Also the wood for the knob has gotten smaller.

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jon123 · Mar 12, 2009, 03:02 PM

I see what you mean shimming/cutting either mortises on the hinge cutouts to adjust the knob set as for the door to close and latch effortlessly. I have eight doors , I figure a days work if all goes smooth. Think I'll try for 50 bucks a door plus material delivered and installed with new hardware. Is that about right? I charged 250.00 labor for three replacements last week. That includes delivery of materials.

jon123 · Mar 12, 2009, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by 21boat

I was talking about the actual knob. Not the 'Strike plates" Or as you call it latch plates.

After you put in the new knobs and you find your self a tad off in height from the door knob plunger hitting the strike plate off vertically. You can either file the strike plate or shim the door on the hinges if there is enough 'reveal"/ gap on both sides of the door.
If a top hinge is shimmed back a 1/32+ and the bottom hinge is shimmed out 1/32+. this will greatly raise the height of the knob plunger to hit the strike plate and latch. Reverse that to lower the plunger to strike location.
I remember when luan doors had much bigger rails in for cutting down the tops and bottoms. At times we have to cut off the bottom. Peel away glued rail to luan. belt sand that and "replug" the bottom of the door. Also the wood for the knob has gotten smaller.

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I put the old door without the hardware on the replacement which is on my horses and square off , very little margin for errors . I always clamp the doors together making sure the top and strike sides are matched. I do appreciate to tip for lowering or raising the door to align knob plunger strike plate to latch/ thanks again,later!

21boat · Mar 12, 2009, 03:21 PM

The adjustment I was talking about on the strike has nothing to do with bending anything.

I believe you are referring to the strike plates little tab in the plate hole to hold door tighter to slam strip.

I was referring to the strike Vertical hight Hole where the door knob plunger goes into the strike plate and if that's off the plate needs moved up or down on the jamb.

If you are ordering the doors mortised and hole for knob. Double check that factory line up with the original strike plate location"hole"

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jon123 · Mar 13, 2009, 05:39 PM

I understand what you are referring to anout the vertical hole. I have no problems using my method of hole transfers. 21BOAT, you sure helped me sharpen up my door installation skills. I picked up a 7 " craftsman combination square and will use it for back setting measurement transfer to new door.When I pick up the doors on Monday, I'm getting me a pencil scribe too (lost my old ones) thank you and if you do not have anything to add, I want to thank you from my heart good man! Peace, and god bless!

21boat · Mar 13, 2009, 06:10 PM

I'm and older contractor and I'm glad I can pass on some old tricks.The real tradesmen are getting fewer and I try to pass along as much as I can. There are some excellent ones on this site and I enjoy there approaches also. Never to old to learn new ways of good craftsmanship in building.

Good luck and keep er going and pass it along. That's the real "Pay it Forward"

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jon123 · Mar 16, 2009, 05:49 PM

21boat, I started 12 noon and finished eight slab replacements today, Everything went smooth and all my cuts went great. A lot of the jams needed a bit of nailing as the colonial slabs were a tad tight.. I also had to deepen the mortise hinge cuts with my trim router. All in all , I banged off the old hinges;unscrewed the old knob and used the old luan doors on top of the colonial for template.. the little 7"square came in handy as you suggested and scoring with the utility knife made it easy free hand routering.. the irwin door hole kit worked great and provided speedy accurate holes for the knobs I charged 40.00 a door cause they are good friends of the family. Thank you and god bless

jon123 · Aug 26, 2009, 06:23 AM

Boat! Ballinger.. anybody! Llast week I got a call from a good customer about his doors sticking to the jam.. I installed the home depot blank colonials.. just this week another customer has the same issue with my installations.. I will stand by my company name and fix the issues and at my expense but it sucks to not know for sure if these slabs are inferior chinese made or similar cheaply engineered products.. it seems the m aterials used in these doors swells during humid wet summer conitions. These factory primed doors should not swell so much to the point that causes them not to open or close.. wondering if any out here has had similar experiences with these doors? Should I be explaining to these good customers that it is an act of God and that the doors are not meant for damp humity weather conditions and that I must be compensated for my time to plain these doors ot make adjustments as needed? I'm not even going to ask what the reveal should be for these doors as I used the old doors as the templates.. these doors from home depot are inferior product in my opinion.. some kind of expansion problem associated with a cheap glue and materials in my opinion