[aqua@home]

I was looking on the internet for some information on my son's illness. One thing led to another and I ended up looking at pictures of kids with the genetic disorder that two of my boys were born with. Anyhow, a lot of children die because of this, not to mention so many other problems and abuse. This brings me to my question:

Why does God (I am a believer) allow this sort of thing to happen? Children are innocent, why would He allow them to go through so much? Why are the innocent hurt? I don't believe He lets it happen but maybe He just doesn't interfere. Which brings me to the second part of my question. How does He decide when to step in or does He? I believe in miracles so I'm sure He does intervene, but why and when?

Does anyone have any thoughts on these questions?

Thank you for anything you are willing to share.

[RickJ]

The question of the ages. I sure wish I had something profound to say, but I don't. Seeing all of the pain and suffering in the world may very well be why so many doubt there is a loving God out there at all.

I can only suggest a little reading to see how others answer. Here are a couple articles I enjoyed reading while looking around:

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/sto...ns/0500120.htm
http://www.americancatholic.org/News.../CU/ac0702.asp

[talaniman]

Your question is an honest one that is hard to answer. I can only say that through adversity do what is within your power to the best of your ability and just keep believing. Never give up your faith no matter how bad life gets.

[Krs]

Hi Aqua, I'm sorry to hear.
I asked myself the same kind of questions about 2 years ago when my dad got terminally ill.
I can you see you have a lot of faith, more then me, so keep that strong aqua that's what keeps you going.

[aqua@home]

Thank you for answering. It looks like I am not the only who doesn't know. For my own self, I can see that there is a bigger picture that I am not aware of. I realize bad things have to happen probably because we would not know just how good we have it sometimes. LOL.

I'm thinking he let's things happen because he has given us the freedom to choose and then we must deal with the consequences. Unfortunately I think the consequences can take a while to show up. Maybe the reprecutions don't even effect us initially?

I can definitely understand why some people wouldn't believe in a god. I guess maybe there is no really answer and if we choose to believe it is because of faith. I have gotten many answers to many prayers, some are obvious and some I see only later. This is what keeps my faith going. When I am in desperate need of help, and I feel like I am going to crack, if I get down and pray, I always get an answer.

When I was contemplating having a fourth baby after 2 had been born with this or tying my tubes, I asked an obstitrician who belongs to our church what he thought. I asked him, from a medical stand point, was I crazy to think about maybe in a few years having another. I knew I could not handle it at the time, but I thought I might be able to in a few years. Actually, I didn't think I would ever be able to handle the situation again, and I was contemplating what I thought we should really do. He is about 70 years old and holds a high position in our church and had been head of obstetrics at the hospital so I really wanted to hear what he had to say. He said that medically I would not be seen as insane for having another one. He suggested that this wasn't something that was just happening to me. He said it might be something the child had to go through for whatever reason. This was a moment for me and it really gave me something to think about. Maybe we are just caught in other's experiences. I don't know. I think everything happens for a reason, and I was involved for some reason I don't know about yet.

I hear that whatever doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.

I'm sorry if I was rambling and I hope what I said made sense. I have a lot of thoughts and I'm not sure they all came together.

[valinors_sorrow]

You know me... I am a nut for the big picture, and I love to learn and to understand but some things are unanswerable, Aqua. I have a long list of questions I hope to ask when I die--presuming I get to meet my Creator then! LOL

I know that I am small and that the physical universe is vast and the spiritual universe is even more vast. I also know there have been many "tragedies" along my path that I later learned were not really that but a detour instead, a detour I could now feel blessed for having been forced to take. It took a while but I now understand that the boulder in the middle of the path IS a part of the path. I now can often say, "we'll see." before I label something as either good or bad.

I also try to suspend judgement as much as possible. Its easier that way. And I can be so wrong when I am judgemental. Like that wonderful story in the book "Illusions"-- what the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly! I have known some pretty afflicted people in my life and some of them taught unbelievably profound lessons to those who were tuned in.

Like the child who doesn't understand why she can't eat candy for dinner, I think about all sorts of things, inluding this about your two sons, and I recognise that these questions are just too big for me right now or I am too little. But I have personally sensed in a way that made for unshakable belief that one day, who knows when or how, we all get to be that big and that a complete and satisfying understanding will come.

So until then, I use my well developed skill of procrastination and put it on my "Too Big For Now" list. I think God understands even if I don't and so I ride along on that as a sort of comfort and foundation. SO my answer to your question is: I Don't know, but I will some day! I have hope and that is why I can tolerate not knowing, not understanding for now.

I hope that helps give you more food for thought. If you ever find yourself a little short on hope, Aqua, you can always borrow some of mine too, okay?

[JoeCanada76]

God created us. God knows us before we are even created in the womb. Is it possible that each individual has choices on what paths to take in life. Is it possible in the spirit before we come into this world we know what kind of challenges we will face. Each individual, each experience is going to effect everybody in the family. Does this mean we all have lessons in this life to learn and that somebody that has a genetic disease or illness is a way for us to learn how to except others and learn to love others unconditionally. People who have different conditions seem to have a very strong spirit and pure love for others. This is a gift from God. Do you not think. It is not a negative.

As far as miracles. We all have experienced miracles in our lifetimes. Some big some small. Your children are miracles. They are beautiful children in my eyes and in Gods eyes. That is a miracle in it self. Everybody has a difference in opinion on what is considered a miracle.

Joe

[31pumpkin]

Hi aqua@home - Very sorry that you have to cope with such a burden. The Lord is our healer & our strength. I pray you will be comforted & blessed.
Here is an article on the question you asked. Sorry to be brief.I have to get some homebound patients more portable oxygen today (there's a storm expected)
This is just one I could find today:
http://articles.pointshop.com/griefloss/44422.php

[LUNAGODDESS]

GOD allows bad things to happen... because he needs to prove that the way to his kingdom is the way to paradise... the unclean one is misdirecting man in believing that God is responsible for the sickness of your child.. there is battle going on and it is against the good and the evil... the unclean one wants man to move away from GOD and death is a tool of accomplishing this goal...
.. it is the unclean one.. who desires to prove God a liar... but, instead the nasty one in my opinion has proven himself nasty.. . keep the faith... death is a challenged... blessed be... will we fall away from GOD because of the death of a loved one... when my grandmother left she said someday we will be together... a song played that night... repeated her saying it was by Diana Ross... she left... I felt her and knew she was somewhere waiting for me... my grandmother was the only one that truly loved me... next to my grand children... the battle will be won by the creator GOD and the nasty one will be proven a liar... I want the most powerful and the most love-ling and the most cherished... to win this battle and I pray that I will not fall away.. for something nasty is just something I do not want... help us lord keep the faith in these trying of times... let us see all that is beautiful before us... place your yoke on the shoulder of whom this GOD has sent and learn more about the Lord... the yoke he wants man to carry is easy and his burden is light... then your burden is lite...

[juliana--]

Dear sir,
Firstly ı want to say that ı am very sorry for your child.I hope that he would be OK one day.and your question; why he lets innocent children die? You say that you are believer of God, and I'm also of God believer and Muslim.I think there isn't much differences between the God you believe and Allah I believe.
Both of us believe the God who is unique.In my opinion, th creater of this world and all universe is capable of doing everything.A leaf couldn't move if he does not let.So there is nothing that he can't do.And you will ask " so why do children die".There are many explanations of it.First, If you believe in fate, there is nothing to do to prevent death.It is similar to that example:If someone gives you money everyday without any expectation, and if one day says "no longer I wiil give you money", will you be angry?It's just like that, everyday, thousands of children are dying!some is having accidents, some is dying because of illness, some is because of starvation, bombs, or many others.
And if you, sir,if you believe in afterdeath, children will go to heaven directly, without any query.
And in my belief, children will be mediator for their parents to go heaven, if their parents are in the way of Allah. I hope there is a belief in your religion or in your heart, because it will make you feel better.
... You can be strictly opposed to me, but I only want to say something for you not to be sad and desperate...

[aqua@home]

Okay, so I do believe that God has 100% control but I also think that he has to do what he said he will do and allow the consequences to follow.

Joe brought up a good point about miracles. I think they happen, but I'm not sure when. I realize the fact that we have 5 children who make me smile everyday is a miracle. I guess I don't exactly know how to classify what a miracle is...

To talk a little more about what LUNAGODDESS had to say, well I don't think anything bad can come from God. Which makes this all the more confusing. I am going to go back and reread the links that Rick and Pumpkin put on when I am not being so preoccupied with babies. And I will do a little more research of my own. I think I need a little more information.

Thank you all for your input so far.

Thank you Val for clearing up that "sir" business... LOL

[Krs]

You are a very strong person aqua, I get that feeling about you :)

[K_3]

My friend's daughter had a child that has many handicaps. He will be 3 soon and we call him the miracle baby. When I walk in the door he jumps up, smiles and throws me kisses, He is so full of love and he has brought about some changes in the family that needed changed. I have always wondered why children are born with illnesses. I suppose until we leave this world we will no know the true answer. I like to believe that a child's spirit is perfect, it is only the covering God gave us to wear on earth that is damaged.

I do not know what your boys illness are, they are very lucky to have you for a mother. I would say you are a special person if God felt you were strong enough to handle it.

[Krs]

talaniman agrees: I think God chose you to give love and nurture His special children

WOW Tal, what a lovely note.

[aqua@home]

I would like to say thank you for your comments. Sometimes when I need a little comfort and support, there it is! You guys are great! I have learned so much on this site and I look forward to the great deep discussion or chuckle I get from here. Some things have become more clear and others, well, not so much. I have much to think about... thank you. Thank you talaniman for that note.

[Krs]

My pleasure Aqua :) xx

[K_3]

God knows we can handle and endure anything, it is we who set our limitations, not even knowing it. I am sure you are a person that can see strength in others not realizing your strength and cmpassion surpasses some you admire.

[Morganite]

COMPUTER $1200.00
INTERNET PER MONTH $20.00
MY OPINION OR ADVICE $0.02
BEING ABLE TO ASK A QUESTION AND RECEIVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND ADVICE PRICELESS

... and for everything else there's MasterCard!

M:)

[Morganite]

Why does God (I am a believer) allow this sort of thing to happen? Children are innocent, why would He allow them to go through so much? Why are the innocent hurt? I don't believe He lets it happen but maybe He just doesn't interfere. Which brings me to the second part of my question. How does He decide when to step in or does He? I believe in miracles so I'm sure He does intervene, but why and when? Does anyone have any thoughts on these questions?

Yours is the cry of millions who have similar experiences to yours. Your questions form part of the wider question about the problems of evil and suffering. One argument being that if God is all-powerful, why does he not stop evil things happening, and why does he not intervene to prevent the innocent from suffering, and stop it when it does happen.

Nonbelievers and believers alike often question why God would allow evil of any kind to exist.

Epicurus said,

Either God is unwilling to prevent the evil that occurs or he is unable to prevent it. If he is unable, then he is not omnipotent; if he is unwilling, then he is not perfectly good.

Epicurus' statement of the dilemma is based on two assumptions:

1) a perfectly good being prevents all the evil it can; and, 2) an omnipotent being can do anything and, hence, can prevent all evil.

From a scriptural perspective the first assumption is false. A perfectly good being would certainly wish to maximize the good, but if, in the nature of things, allowing an experience of evil were a necessary condition of achieving the greatest good, a perfectly good being would allow it. For example, it seems evident that the existence of opposition and temptation is a necessary condition for the expression of morally significant freedom and the development of genuinely righteous personalities. How can we choose to do right if we are unable to choose to act in opposition to 'doing right'? Scripture rejects the second assumption.

God aids each of us in reaching our potential. It is not a "decree" that disease, stress, and pain are part of our growth and enlightenment. The universe and we who live within it simply operate that way. It is enough to know that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ, though not the source of our tragedies, yet have power to enable us to climb above it, into everlasting joy.

The purpose of our lives is to come to know God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent, and to grow to become like them as well as we are able, and to enjoy an eternity in their presence as the reward of our faith through the grace of God and the atonement of Jesus Christ. In the meantime, our lives unfold, person to person, very differently. Yet irrespective of the circumstances of our individual lives, each of us is, as Paul described, 'the offspring of God,' and God does not leave us to bear our buirdens or sufferings alone. He provides to us the strength to deal with whatever conditions are applied in our lives, whether it is our own sickness or disabilities, or those of our loved ones.

God does not cause our troubles, but like a wise Father he leaves us to deal with them through our faith, and the fruits of that faith are an increase in strength, wisdom, and understanding that enable us to see beyond today's concerns, however pressing and disocuraging they might be, and take the eternal view that in the resurrection, all our deficiencies will be made whole.

To the question about the man born blind in John, when asked who sinned to make him blind, Jesus said that it was not the man himself nor even his parents who were responsible for his blindness. The same question is dealt with throroughly in the Book of Job when Job's comforting friends insist that he is suffering because he must have done something wicked and offended God. But it was not wickedness that brought suffering to Job's door, it was life. In life, sometimes things go wrong for no apparent reason, and God lets us get on with it, giving strength sufficient to our faith.

Many parents blame themselves when their children suffer in some way, or when they die, but they are not to blame. Accidents happen, things go wrong, and no one is at fault. Not parents, not the children, and not God.

The dialogue between Job and his friends offers perhaps the most moving poetry in the realm of religious experience. The problem raised remains a universal one, and the spiritual sufferings depicted find responsive hearts whenever we ponder deeply the issues of life. Job is the victim of philosophy, one that blinds him to some of the most obvious facts of human experience. He has never seen men, women, and children victimized by circumstances over which they have no control and which bear no relation to their motives or their acts. He knows nothing of innocent suffering, for basic in his thinking is the assumption that divine justice always exhibits itself in punishing the guilty and in prospering the innocent. Righteousness, to him, is insurance against all misfortunes.

His own life has been one of extraordinary virtue. Indeed, he has attained what approaches human perfection. He has, therefore, every reason to look forward to a life of unbroken prosperity and happiness. Then without warning comes disaster after disaster. Flocks, herds, and loved ones are snatched from him with stunning swiftness, and his body is afflicted with a painful and loathsome disease. And for it all, his philosophy or religion offers no explanation. The appalling conclusion forces itself upon him that God is no longer a God of justice. Rather, He seems a capricious and vindictive God, saving the evil and destroying the good.

In agony of spirit, Job curses the day that gave him birth and pleads with his alienated deity to grant him death:

"Oh that I might have my request,And that God would grant me the thing that I long for!Even that it would please God to destroy me;That he would loose his hand and cut me off!Then should I yet have comfort."

Yet the great debate in the Book of Job affords no solution to the problem of innocent suffering. The greatest lesson that Job learns is one that sooner or later most of us learn: human life is a fragile thing, and human beings live in a world the events of which are not all to be explained by any simple philosophy: "Man that is born of womanIs of few days and full of trouble.He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down;He fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not."

Job's example instructs us in how to "suffer suffering," rather than in the reason for our suffering.
From the Book of Job we gain no definitive answers to the philosophical problem of evil. In fact, the Lord never supplies Job with an explanation for his afflictions, much less for suffering in general.

But Job's deepest need, as is ours, is not for reasons but for revelation, not for theological precepts but for the divine presence. His crisis is spiritual. His deepest anguish springs from his feeling of godforsakenness, which can be relieved only by the witness, borne on the whirlwind, that God has not forsaken him.

Job's example makes clear that though sometimes suffering is a sign of punishment, it is not so always. Though the book of Job does make it clear that affliction is not necessarily evidence that one has sinned." That is a great comfort, especially for the many blameless souls who accuse themselves when tragedy befalls them. When an infant is born with birth defects or a loved one is killed in an auto accident, when cancer strikes or a job is lost—our immediate response often is, "What have I done to deserve this?"

Job implies that there can be "no-fault" tragedy. This is a truth that pious, well-intentioned religionists have been ever prone to forget. Jesus had to remind those in his day of this lesson on more than one occasion.

Be at peace.

M:)RGANITE

[aqua@home]

A perfectly good being would certainly wish to maximize the good, but if, in the nature of things, allowing an experience of evil were a necessary condition of achieving the greatest good, a perfectly good being would allow it. For example, it seems evident that the existence of opposition and temptation is a necessary condition for the expression of morally significant freedom and the development of genuinely righteous personalities. How can we choose to do right if we are unable to choose to act in opposition to 'doing right'?

I love this. I agree whole-heartedly, we must know the bad to know the good and we are required to make a choice.

...God does not leave us to bear our buirdens or sufferings alone. He provides to us the strength to deal with whatever conditions are applied in our lives, whether it is our own sickness or disabilities, or those of our loved ones.

Yes and I think this is what K3 was saying. If we know this, that can be strength enough.

In life, sometimes things go wrong for no apparent reason, and God lets us get on with it, giving strength sufficient to our faith... Many parents blame themselves when their children suffer in some way, or when they die, but they are not to blame. Accidents happen, things go wrong, and no one is at fault. Not parents, not the children, and not God..

I have to say this was/is true for me. I thought about what I might have done wrong because I knew the baby hadn't done anything. I still sometimes think that maybe it was because I had children out of wedlock, full well believing I should have. I know it might sound silly, but it seems I have to find a reason for everything. I thought it might have happened for many reasons. I suppose lI hope to see the big picture maybe when I have died.

...That is a great comfort, especially for the many blameless souls who accuse themselves when tragedy befalls them. When an infant is born with birth defects or a loved one is killed in an auto accident, when cancer strikes or a job is lost—our immediate response often is, "What have I done to deserve this?"

Job implies that there can be "no-fault" tragedy. This is a truth that pious, well-intentioned religionists have been ever prone to forget. Jesus had to remind those in his day of this lesson on more than one occasion. ..

I have to admit, I had never heard the story about Job. It was not a good story. I see the point to it though, I think. You have shed some light on the subject and I am glad that I was able to read it. I don't want to be reminded too often. I think from my own personal perspective, I feel the need to find blame because that's what kind of person I am. I want to know why about most things. There must be a reason and as in my case, with a child born with a defect it seems easy to blame myself. I can tell you everything I did wrong during my pregnancy because I have played it over and over in my head many times. It's easy to blame one's self.

I guess the idea is to take what is given and trust in God that we will make it through. Trust that there is a bigger picture and I only have a glimpse of it at the moment.

Thank you Morganite for your input.