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JudyKayTee · Feb 26, 2009, 10:48 AM

Yesterday I was working a case and looking for a potential witness. Story is this - witness is a two-time Veteran of Iraq, deployed twice (obviously). Came home with "anger issues." Went to VA which is understaffed and overworked. They suggested private counselling which he cannot afford. Was at a baseball game; coach yelled at Veteran's son; Veteran came out of stand and knocked coach down; Veteran admits it was all his fault. Veteran ordered to pay all related medical bills and go into anger management. Paid the bills, does not have money for anger management.

So he's in jail to serve out a sentence instead of "outside," getting help. I guarantee he's going to come out with more issues than he had when he went in.

His wife and child are on public assistance because she lost her job due to the economy.

I see this family spiralling downward. I'm not a charitable foundation but felt so awful that I stopped on my way home, bought a grocery store gift card and mailed it to the wife this AM. I simply don't know what else to do.

I am not saying people should be allowed to run around knocking down and otherwise bullying other people and blaming anger issues. I am saying it's the Korean War and Viet Nam all over again - soldiers are coming home after horrific experiences, unable to cope, out of the mainstream and this Country turns its back.

Clunk. Off my soapbox.

Emland · Feb 26, 2009, 10:51 AM

Don't get me started on the VA. My husband has to go there for some things, but always get a second opinion.

Somehow, I don't think this Veteran is going to have his anger issues fixed by going to jail. Seems like community service would have been a better deal all round.

artlady · Feb 26, 2009, 11:10 AM

Good for you for lending a hand! That case was put in your hand for a reason and you answered the call.

It is appalling what our veterans are going through... again!

Because of the nature of the humveees,we are seeing more head trauma than ever before but there is little if any expertise in treating people with this type of trauma and there are no funds to insure it will get better.

Walter Reed is a mess and these people who fought for our country are being treated like second class citizens.

I refer you to an article I think you will appreciate.

If there is any soapbox to stand on.. this is one!

Bless you for your Patriotism and human decency.

Soldiers Face Neglect, Frustration At Army's Top Medical Facility - washingtonpost.com

Justwantfair · Feb 26, 2009, 11:15 AM

Maybe the VA could quit coddling my ex and start spending it where it really matters.

excon · Feb 27, 2009, 09:18 AM

Hello Judy:

I'm amazed by the "we support our troops", wing, who only support them when they're TROOPS, but not when they're men.

Ok, I take it back. They don't amaze me anymore.

excon

JudyKayTee · Feb 27, 2009, 09:22 AM

And it's the geniuses who think that putting someone who admits he was at fault, has asked for counselling, cannot afford counselling, can't get into VA for counselling in JAIL because he can't afford counselling. Duhh.

inthebox · Feb 27, 2009, 09:37 AM

VA

"understaffed and overworked"

I wonder why that is? Government run. In general there is no reward or incentive for excellence.

The VA where I use to work only did what they were able to do because some of the employees took pride in what they do and went beyond there stated duties.

The Va where I use to work only had St Louis, 1-3 hours away, as an option for a lot of specialty care. Quite a few vets I took care said they would rather die than go to St Louis [ VA ].

Look up Marion IL VA surgeon and deaths. Yes during Obama's tenure as senator, the Va hired a surgeon that was not qualified.

G&P

tomder55 · Feb 27, 2009, 09:58 AM

I'm amazed by the "we support our troops", wing, who only support them when they're TROOPS, but not when they're men.

Ok, I take it back. They don't amaze me anymore.

That would be America as a nation throughout it's history with the exception of WWII ;where there was an economic incentive to retrain returning troops for civilian life after demobilization.

Veterans of the Revolutionary War made their way home alone. No parade, no public homecoming ceremony welcomed them. They had been recruited for a long engagement and were treated as soldiers under conditions of professional soldiers during that time .Congress kept the army weak, undermanned, and undersupplied to prevent it from turning on its own government but strong enough to stalemate British forces. The country had tired of the long and costly war by the end . Veterans received no benefits ;they were ripped off by speculators . These men were soon forgotten by the country they had liberated from Britain's empire.
It took until about 1825 for them to begin to get the recognition they deserved .

You will recall from history I'm sure what happened to the WWI vets . They had returned home from WWI and unlike the WWII veteran just expected to return to civilian life.

Things came to a head when they began to demand bonuses they were expecting . WWI Bonus Army of vets took matters into their own hands and occupied Anacostia Flats in Washington .The US Army assaulted them and forced them out of their tent encampment .

I would say by comparison vets are treated with much more understanding today.
Could they be treated better ? Certainly... we have a long ways to go . But let's not forget [since this has become political now ]how Vets were treated by a Democrat Congress that dominated politics throughout the 1960s and 1970s .

JudyKayTee · Feb 27, 2009, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

I would say by comparison vets are treated with much more understanding today.
Could they be treated better ? Certainly ...we have a long ways to go . But let's not forget [since this has become political now ]how Vets were treated by a Democrat Congress that dominated politics throughout the 1960s and 1970s .

I think you are placing all of the blame on the Government - my "ex" was a Viet Nam soldier. Came home and people spit on him at the Airport, called him a baby killer. Right or wrong, he went because he was drafted, not because he wanted to go.

I had no intention of turning this into another political argument - I think it's terrible the way returning soldiers are treated by the Government and by citizens alike.

Somebody's house burns down and it's all about a fund raiser; some guy comes back from Iraq and nobody can reach out.

excon · Feb 27, 2009, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

But let's not forget [since this has become political now ]how Vets were treated by a Democrat Congress that dominated politics throughout the 1960s and 1970s .

Hello tom:

I got discharged in the 60's. My GI Bill paid for exactly what it was supposed to pay for. I went to a VA hospital too. They weren't falling down.

Maybe it wasn't any better then. I don't know. I just have this feeling, that the dufus and his "support the troops" crowd COULD have done a better job thanking these guys for putting their lives at risk for US.

excon

speechlesstx · Feb 27, 2009, 10:32 AM

Absolutely, things should be better for our vets. I don't think you'll find many of the "we support our troops" crowd that feel any different. But on one hand the system IS run by the federal government, which is just one more reason I can't understand so many people wanting to put so much faith in them now!

I have to say not all VA facilities and services are deficient, our local VA hospital always gets high marks from the locals and we just built a brand new VA retirement center that gets high marks as well.

inthebox · Feb 27, 2009, 10:46 AM

Look up Fischer house veterans charity

Or Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund

To support the troops

G&P

excon · Feb 27, 2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

But on one hand the system IS run by the federal government, which is just one more reason I can't understand so many people wanting to put so much faith in them now!

Hello again, Steve:

Nailed it!

The answer too, is embodied in your post. ".... government IS the problem.." Ronald Reagan... For the last 30 years, THAT idea reigned.

Let me ask you this. If you were a bureaucrat from a party who held that philosophy, and you were running a government agency, how hard would you work to prove that philosophy false? Katrina exposed that philosophy for the fraud that it is.

However, if you're from a party who believes government HAS A ROLE TO PLAY, then government might work better...

It might not.. But, I'd rather my government be staffed with people who think that they matter, instead of people who are trying to take their agency's down.

excon

tomder55 · Feb 27, 2009, 11:31 AM

The Russian Politburo was never the problem.

tomder55 · Mar 12, 2009, 11:07 AM

Obama wants vets to pay for treatment of their service related injuries .
Senators slam plan for wounded vets to use private insurance - CNN.com

speechlesstx · Mar 12, 2009, 12:51 PM

How dare these veterans take preemptive action on something that isn't law yet.

BTW ex, I've always agreed that government has a role to play... but being the nanny ain't one of them.

ETWolverine · Mar 12, 2009, 02:26 PM

First of all, I think you are a good guy for trying to help. Thank you for doing what you can.

Next, we need to address the VA system. The VA system is broken. It is indeed understaffed and underfunded and way overworked. They forced your friend/client to look for help outside the system because they are unable to help him within the system. They need to ration health care, because there is not enough to go around. And since he is totally reliant on the VA system which is down to rationing its services, he is unable to get the care he needs.

This is Universal Government Health Care in a nutshell. This example happens to millions of vets every year. And it will only get worse when EVERYONE is under the same government-run healthcare system.

It looks like your friend needs several forms of help. He needs legal help to get him out of jail. For that, you can try this website:

National Veterans Legal Services Program - Veterans Benefits - Medical Health Disability Claims (NVLSP) National Veterans Legal Services Program. They do pro-bono (free) legal work to help veterans. They also have a links page to other veterans advocacy groups.

Then he needs health care, both mental and likely physical as well. People suffering from PTSD and other forms of post-battle mental disorders tend to be lax about getting the medical help they need in general. In addition to a psych counselor, he likely needs a regular medical exam too.

Try this website.
The National Veterans Organization of America The National Veterans Organization of America

They have a website that lists some doctors who help vets.
The National Veterans Organization of America

Maybe some of this can help. It's the best I can do for your friend.

ETWolverine · Mar 12, 2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

Nailed it!

The answer too, is embodied in your post. ".... government IS the problem.." Ronald Reagan... For the last 30 years, THAT idea reigned.

Let me ask you this. If you were a bureaucrat from a party who held that philosophy, and you were running a government agency, how hard would you work to prove that philosophy false? Katrina exposed that philosophy for the fraud that it is.

Really? I think that Katrina proved that philosophy to be 100% true. States like Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida that took care of their own damn selves instead of hoping for government assistance did just fine. The ones who relied on government to fix things (ahem>Louisiana<ahem) got screwed.

Here's an interesting tidbit of information for anyone who hasn't figured out the real world yet... the Government can't help in an emergency. The bureaucracy of government is too large to effectively react to ANY emergency in time to do any good. The larger the government, the slower the response. If you are relying on the government to save you, then you are already dead.

After the Towers came down on 9/11, CIVILIANS and LOCAL COPS and LOCAL RESCUE WORKERS started working to try to rescue those trapped in the rubble. The NY City government was unable to react for hours, and that was actually a very quick response time. The State didn't get involved until MUCH later, and the Federal Government took three days to redeploy anything to the site of the disaster. That is not anyone's fault. It is the nature of bureaucracies everywhere. Nothing that big can move quickly.

So it is no surprise that when the government tries to react to an emergency, they do so too little too late, and usually based on information that is outdated. The lag time for decision-making and action-taking in the Federal Government is huge.

If you rely on government to fix your problems, you will, of nature, be waiting a long time.

However, if you're from a party who believes government HAS A ROLE TO PLAY, then government might work better...

It might not.. But, I'd rather my government be staffed with people who think that they matter, instead of people who are trying to take their agency's down.

Excon

Excon, the problem is not that government employees feel worthless or that they don't matter. The problem with the government is that they believe that EVERYONE ELSE is worthless.

When was the last time you went to the DMV in your state? Tell me that the primadonas standing behind the counter, with their little bit of authority over your driver's license and your license plates, don't think that you are a waste of their precious time, and darn it, they're going to have to actually provide you with a service by their good graces, and how lucky you are to be getting served by such a perfect specimen of bureaucratic expertise. Ever been to the unemployment office? Tell me they don't look down on you as if you were something they scraped off their shoe. Ever see a government employee's union representative? They actually believe that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and they really deserve a two-hour work day with an hour off for lunch and two 20-minute smoke breaks and a 20-minute coffee break.

The government has become so big and powerful that it's employees have forgotten that they work for us, not the other way around. Government employees do not have the problem of low self esteem in their jobs. They suffer from narcicism and egomania and Nepolionic Complexes. They KNOW that they matter. They just think that nobody else does.

Hey, there are some good government employees out there. I know a couple of them. Really nice people, if somewhat under-educated, but willing to help and willing to learn. But most people with good attitudes toward customers make a hell of a lot more money in the private sector than in the government. The losers end up in government for their entire careers.

And the result is programs like the VA, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, which are all broken and bankrupt, or your local DMV, Unemployment Office or other government service office, where people are just nasty and often incompetent.

Reagan was right when he said that government can't solve the problem, government IS the problem. And the bigger the government, the bigger the problem.

Our government is WAAAAYYYY to friggin' big.

Elliot

iloveyou1994 · May 11, 2009, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Yesterday I was working a case and looking for a potential witness. Story is this - witness is a two-time Veteran of Iraq, deployed twice (obviously). Came home with "anger issues." Went to VA which is understaffed and overworked. They suggested private counselling which he cannot afford. Was at a baseball game; coach yelled at Veteran's son; Veteran came out of stand and knocked coach down; Veteran admits it was all his fault. Veteran ordered to pay all related medical bills and go into anger management. Paid the bills, does not have money for anger management.

So he's in jail to serve out a sentence instead of "outside," getting help. I guarantee he's going to come out with more issues than he had when he went in.

His wife and child are on public assistance because she lost her job due to the economy.

I see this family spiralling downward. I'm not a charitable foundation but felt so awful that I stopped on my way home, bought a grocery store gift card and mailed it to the wife this AM. I simply don't know what else to do.

I am not saying people should be allowed to run around knocking down and otherwise bullying other people and blaming anger issues. I am saying it's the Korean War and Viet Nam all over again - soldiers are coming home after horrific experiences, unable to cope, out of the mainstream and this Country turns its back.

Clunk. Off my soapbox.

VA is not understaffed and overworked, sir! Your answer is very offending to fellow Virginians. You did not need to comment like that.:mad:

Fr_Chuck · May 11, 2009, 06:24 PM

So true I have a family member did two tours in Iraq and one in Afgan, after getting out ( was wounded slightly) he has emotional issues from the war.

He went in to the VA and YEP guess what same story, get counseling and medication, but VA will not pay for it, his private insurance has to.
Lucky he has it.