[smoothy]

I don't feel it's a self esteem issue. You could be the most confidant person in the world and still find strip clubs to be offensive. You could also have the self esteem of a floor mat and be totally fine with them. It's not a simple black and white issue. If a person is offended and disrespected by racial jokes, is it "controlling" to ask them to stop making those jokes because it's disrespectful? Definitely not.

I consider Soap Operas Offensive... I consider left wing radicals offensive... can we ban them too out of respect for those who work for a living being expected to support the lazy bums who won't... personally I'd love that.

Fact is if a certain individual has a problem with stip clubs they need to live with it... everyone else has to live with other peoples issues we find offensive or just dislike every day. Your rights end right where someone else's begin so to speak. And a good point to remember is that some of your own actions might be objectionible to others... like where you park on the street etc. helps put it all in perspective.

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

I apologize for saying that man turn into "vicious pigs." Only some do.

I will say this once, only because I feel like I have opened a can of smelly worms. I find strip clubs and porn to be offensive because 1.) It's degrading to women and 2.) Often men imagine this is what their girlfriend or wife should look/act like.

I am not saying this because I'm an insecure and jealous woman, I am saying this because women who are smart and happen to be pretty don't get the respect they deserve so when you put porn and stripping into the picture, men will only see women as a piece of meat or "eye candy."

[smoothy]

I apologize for saying that man turn into "vicious pigs." Only some do.

I will say this once, only becuase I feel like I have opened a can of smelly worms. I find strip clubs and porn to be offensive because 1.) It's degrading to women and 2.)Often men imagine this is what their girlfriend or wife should look like.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion...

I've also spent my life avoiding women with atitudes like that (and trust me the world is full of women that don't)... and married one of those that didn't have it.

Point to remember is if you plan to expect HIM to give up enjoyable stuff like that... but get your panties in a knot when he demands YOU give up stuff you enjoy in return. It's a two way street remember. When it becomes a one way street on demands then divorce is knocking on the door.


EDIT: I thought of a better comparison... Sure you are offended by porn and strip clubs... lets take that a step further... there are men that are offended by women who even show ankle etc... force them to wear Burqas (head to toe burlap sacks in public), you know the Taliban... and other radial Muslims like in Saudi Arabia. It that any different? Not really, just a bit more extreme. But are their demands any less fair or realistic to force upon others?

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

You are persistent, aren't you?

I get your point: You like strip clubs. End of story.

I don't quit understand what you mean by "women with attitudes like that." Like what exactly? That I find strip clubs to be degrading against the female species?

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

What are you trying to win here? You have your opinions, I have mine.

[smoothy]

You are persistent, aren't you?

I get your point: You like strip clubs. End of story.

I don't quit understand what you mean by "women with attitudes like that." Like what exactly? That I find strip clubs to be degrading against the female species?

No less persistent than you are on the topic...

You have a poor attitude thinking all men should bend to YOUR opinion. That they aren't entitled to free will and do as they wish.

Lets say I thought Burqas were a good idea and all women should wear them in public and not be seen with unrelated males ( just an example)... would that opinion be wrong too?

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

America happens to be very different in how they want to present women. I would rather contribute my brains and good heart to society than to show my body off. That's just me!

[smoothy]

What are you trying to win here? You have your opinions, I have mine.

And I'm not trying to force my will upon others... while you are.


You may not like Strip clubs... well don't go into one... you may not like Porn... so don't watch it. Nobody is forcing you to.

[Nestorian]

I am a very attractive woman and my boyfriend is very attracted to me. I make him very happy and I'm usually very easygoing. I know he loves me and I don't have to worry about him cheating on me, but I almost have an anxiety attack thinking about him watching porn (I introduced it into our relationship and can't handle thinking about him watching it now) or going to a strip club. He hasn't been to one since we've been together, but he has 3 friends getting married this year so there are 3 bachelor parties to go to. How do I get over my insecurities???!!! I really, REALLY don't want any other woman dancing on him and I especially don't want him throwing money at women!! Ugh.

"Pandoras box"-http://www.geocities.com/una_sorella/stories/pandora.htm

No, I"m not suggesting that because you are a women, this happend to you. YOu made your choice, now you must live with it. YOu can talk to him and expalin your sistuation, feelings and such; but it may also do you well to find a counseler to find out why you feel like this.

One thing, it may not be comforting at first but, the book the brain that changes it'self by Norman Doidge M.D. has some good points of interest on this kind of thing. It talks about how the brain releases certain chemicals, causing a possible addiction to these things. It exlains in a round about way how to over come such things. It can either help you by figuring out yourself and why you feel like you do, or understanding why he maybe doing what he is doing, or both. I"m sure there is more ways that that, but it's a pretty interesting read. You'll want chapter 4 acquiring tastes and love. Talks on porn addiction, and B&D. (Bondage and Discipline) and more. Most of the book is about neurological studies of the brain and how it's able to change it's self. Then it explains how we can change our thinking, feelings, and actions. Though you may have to read into it more to understand how that all ties to gether.

Peace and kindness.

[blingaru]

I think it's possible that it's difficult for men to understand that women could feel degraded by men that glorify them in strip clubs. Modern culture has taught us that the only women who should be valued are the ones that look a certain way. I don't know what a fair comparison is for men... it seems so rare that a man gets degraded in the same way that porn degrades women. Perhaps it's a feeling that they can't relate to and/or understand. Sure there are male strip clubs, but I've only heard of other women going there to get a good laugh, and even then, the number of male strip clubs does not come anywhere close to the number of female strip clubs. Perhaps it's just something that men don't think about and/or understand.

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

I am not trying to force my will upon others as well, although it may seem like that because you and I are in a heated topic.

[smoothy]

I think it's possible that it's difficult for men to understand that women could feel degraded by men that glorify them in strip clubs. Modern culture has taught us that the only women who should be valued are the ones that look a certain way. I don't know what a fair comparison is for men....it seems so rare that a man gets degraded in the same way that porn degrades women. Perhaps it's a feeling that they can't relate to and/or understand. Sure there are male strip clubs, but i've only heard of other women going there to get a good laugh, and even then, the number of male strip clubs does not come anywhere close to the number of female strip clubs. Perhaps it's just something that men don't think about and/or understand.

Again... purely perspective of women with self esteme issues.

Talk to some dancers... being degraded... hardly... they are in control and sucker guys out of their money for a little jiggle. Many make over $500 an hour for doing nothing more than shaking their butt and laughing on their way to the bank. Hardly women being exploited. This isn't a third world Brothel we are talking about. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the world because it does... to both sexes for different reasons.

Who gets upset about men preffering in shape women that take care of themselves? Obviously the larger women that can't be bothered to exercize or watch their calorig intake. Trust me women get the same way when it comes to men... they case after a arrogant Brad Pitt rather than chase after the really nice guy that happens wo weight 350 lbs. So its not purely a guy thing there.

Its always been that way... people gravitate to what appeals to them... and always have, and always will.

And plenty of women play guys to get their money, get intentionally pregnant to get what they want usually from guys they never really cared about, as long as they had money in their wallet. We call them Golddiggers. Never a shortage of them.

Women can't claim a moral high ground... they have done even worse over the eons. And I've never claimed men had the moral high ground either. Its human nature.

[smoothy]

I am not trying to force my will upon others as well, although it may seem like that because you and I are in a heated topic.

You are... you are having a tizzy fit because everyone won't agree with you and think that men have the right to watch porn and naked ladies... married or not.

You don't have to like it... but you do have to accept it.


Man I feel sorrty for any man that has to deal with that crap every night. In whatever household that might be.

[liz28]

I don't mind my fiancé going to a strip just like he doesn't if I go. We had went to strip clubs together and separately. It isn't something he do all the time because he isn't addictive to it. The last time he visited a strip club was 1 1/2 years ago.

I have a few females friends that goes to the male strip club quite often and I must say the male strip clubs were way rowdier than the female strip clubs. I don't go because it not my cup of tea and the females at the males strip clubs was too loose and wild. Well at least at the male strip clubs I went to.

[45notdaddy]

I've used this answer before, and it applies here as well:

Here's my take as a porn peruser in a committed relationship.

• Yes, there are things that I would change about my girlfriend's appearance. Specifically I'd love it if she got a set of DD implants. It's not happening, and I'm good with that, as it's her body and occasionally she lets me touch it.
• I watch porn mainly for the situations and picture myself with her performing said activity. Yes it helps if the person in the clip is attractive as it helps if I lose focus, but it all comes back to her.
• I love my girlfriend and have no plans to run off with "Candy Dejour" (fake name don't bother) as I feel largely fulfilled by our relationship, even if I have to barter for "special" events.

If you're disturbed with what you saw, ask him about it, if it doesn't involve pee, poo, blood, animals, or kids consider trying it, if it does.....RUN!

Now as far as strip clubs being the root of all evil : Not hardly. The guys are being taken advantage of far more than the women they're "exploiting". Strippers make a good deal of money and they take it from saps who'd never have a shot with them outside the club. The guys are paying for the fantasy - and generally that's all they get.

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

You are.....you are having a tizzy fit because everyone won't agree with you and think that men have the right to watch porn and naked ladies....married or not.

You don't have to like it...but you do have to accept it.


Man I feel sorrty for any man that has to deal with that crap every night. In whatever household that might be.

I did not specifically state "All men must not watch porn and go to strip clubs."

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

And I feel sorry for your wife who has to deal with your sick fixtures to t*ts and a**, because after all that's what women are for, right?

[blingaru]

[QUOTE=smoothy;1686986]Again... purely perspective of women with self esteme issues.

Talk to some dancers... being degraded... hardly... they are in control and sucker guys out of their money for a little jiggle. Many make over $500 an hour for doing nothing more than shaking their butt and laughing on their way to the bank. Hardly women being exploited. This isn't a third world Brothel we are talking about. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the world because it does... to both sexes for different reasons.

Who gets upset about men preffering in shape women that take care of themselves? Obviously the larger women that can't be bothered to exercize or watch their calorig intake. Trust me women get the same way when it comes to men... they case after a arrogant Brad Pitt rather than chase after the really nice guy that happens wo weight 350 lbs. So its not purely a guy thing there.


Again, I don't think it's as simple as self esteem. I know several educated, beautiful women that are fit and take care of themselves. Have successful careers, and have very healthy self esteems and feelings of self worth. Yet, many of those people find strip clubs to be degrading. Is it because they have poor self esteem? Nope. You'd have to ask them yourselves, but I believe it's because of the negative connotations associated with these clubs. One of the women I speak of has a masters degree in psychology and has actually done extensive research in this field. The research she did found that the majority of women working in strip clubs had extremely low feelings of self worth. Most of them began to hate men because of the way they acted in the club, and some of them would only date other women - not because they were born lesbian, but because working in the clubs had created such a loathing and mistrust of all men. Most of the women also had drug issues. Most got high or drunk on a consistent basis just so that they could deal with the objectification and the horrid way in which the men acted. Note that I keep saying the word "most". I'd have to ask my friend on specific statistics, but in all of these various examples I am giving, the statistics were well over 65%. That's very significant I think.

To each their own, but I don't believe that sacrificing yourself dignity for money is empowerment, and I don't believe that it equates to self respect. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I would much rather scrape by doing something that I loved to do and gave me a feeling of real accomplishment and self worth. To me, accomplishment is not looking a certain way and having people stare at you and then in turn give you money for that.

[smoothy]

I don't mind my fiance going to a strip just like he doesn't if I go. We had went to strip clubs together and seperately. It isn't something he do all the time because he isn't addictive to it. As a matter of fact the last time he visited a strip club was 1 1/2 years ago.

I have a few females friends that goes to the male strip club quite often and I must say the male strip clubs were way rowdier than the female strip clubs. I don't go because it not my cup of tea and the females at the males strip clubs was too loose and wild. Well at least at the male strip clubs I went to.

That may all depend on the laws where you live.

Around Washington DC, a Gentlemans Clunb (strip joint) will loose it license to operate if..

#1 underage people are in it

#2 any drugs are discovered there

#3 any prostitution activity

#4 patrons are allowed to touch the dancers beyond slipping a bill in the garter belt.


There are plenty of other rules and licenses do not get reinstated. They basically loose the license to practically print money if they allow any of those.

But Women I know that have been in both types say the women get more crude and more rowdy where they've been.

[smoothy]

And I feel sorry for your wife who has to deal with your sick fixtures to t*ts and a**, because after all that's what women are for, right?

Why feel sorry for my wife, she goes to the club with me and points out the better built women on the street and at the mall to me. And that's her idea, not mine. I love my wife... and she's no prude. We watch porn together and have one hell of a good sex life after 17 years of marriage every day in fact, sometimes twice a day. Are you able to make that claim?