The Tribulation

galveston · Mar 2, 2009, 09:51 AM

I recently thought about something I want to point out in connection with the rapture, specifically concerning the Anti-Christ who will emerge after the rapture.
There have been several men that some thought were the Anti-Christ in history, starting with Nero Caesar and including (I think) Joe Stalin and Hitler.
There are even some people who think Obama is the Anti-Christ. (I know he's not)
Now those of you who believe that The Anti-Christ is historical are going to have to revise your thinking.
You are going to have to either: 1. Dismiss the Book of Revelation as false. OR 2. Accept that fulfillment if future.
Why? Because it was written about 90 AD. The Apostle John who is credited with being the author was certaily aware that the Temple in Jerusalem had been destroyed in 70 AD, so when whe wrote of the Anti-Christ seating himself in the Temple proclaiming himself as god, John could not possibly have been referring to Nero.
There has never been a Temple in Jerusalem since 70 AD. So the fulfillment of these passages remain future.
And of course, in the context of the whole Book of Revelation, the Temple has to be the one located in Jerusalem.

arcura · Mar 2, 2009, 08:56 PM

bobbalina
The verse you mention is one of several that indicate the existence of Purgatory.
In answer to your questions.
1. no.
2.no.
3. It is just a fictional movie based on misinterpretation of Scripture
Peace and kindness, Fred

galveston · Mar 3, 2009, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

bobbalina
The verse you mention is one of several that indicate the existence of Purgatory.
In answer to your questions.
1. no.
2.no.
3. It is just a fictional movie based on misinterpretation of Scripture
Peace and kindness, Fred

So then may we conclude that you reject the Book of Revelation?

Purgatory is not the subject of this thread, but would be willing to discuss it if you want to.

arcura · Mar 3, 2009, 10:01 PM

galveston,
Yes I believe that book AND the rest of the bible,
Purgatory was discussed here long ago.
If you want to start another thread on it I'll be happy to help out on it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

galveston · Mar 4, 2009, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

galveston,
Yes I believe that book AND the rest of the bible,
Purgatory was discussed here long ago.
If you want to start another thread on it I'll be happy to help out on it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I'll accept that you believe the Book of Revelation. So now explain why you think the references to Anti-Christ were written about Nero. Re-read my previous post on this.

Now those of you who believe that The Anti-Christ is historical are going to have to revise your thinking.
You are going to have to either: 1. Dismiss the Book of Revelation as false. OR 2. Accept that fulfillment if future.
Why? Because it was written about 90 AD. The Apostle John who is credited with being the author was certaily aware that the Temple in Jerusalem had been destroyed in 70 AD, so when whe wrote of the Anti-Christ seating himself in the Temple proclaiming himself as god, John could not possibly have been referring to Nero.
There has never been a Temple in Jerusalem since 70 AD. So the fulfillment of these passages remain future.
And of course, in the context of the whole Book of Revelation, the Temple has to be the one located in Jerusalem.

Btw, why is it that so many people seem to think that the return of Jesus Christ means the end of the world? Nothing could be further from the truth. (The OP first question)

arcura · Mar 4, 2009, 08:43 PM

galveston,
666 is the numerical equivalent of Nero's full name and has been know as such for 2000 years.
The anti-christ who will sit on the throne in Jerusalem may not have yet been born although some now claim that he was elected president of the USA this last year.
But I think not because the third temple has not been built and will not be so for quite a few years yet.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

classyT · Mar 5, 2009, 11:37 AM

The antic-Christ and false prophet are clearly future events. When Christ comes back to earth he will shut them up with a word and they are both thrown LIVE into the lake of fire... or did that happen already and I missed it? Lol
It is pure folly for anyone to think Obama could be the anti-christ. First scripture is clear the man will rise up out of the revived roman empire.

Having said that, we can see how Obama is able to speak very well and how popular he is here and really in the world. Think how easy it will be for the anti-christ... not only will he be a man with an ability to communicate well, he will have POWER behind him.

galveston · Mar 5, 2009, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

galveston,
666 is the numerical equivalent of Nero's full name and has been know as such for 2000 years.
The anti-christ who will sit on the throne in Jerusalem may not have yet been born although some now claim that he was elected president of the USA this last year.
But I think not because the third temple has not been built and will not be so for quite a few years yet.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, don't you see how confused this sounds? First you say the events of the Book of Revelation are lready fulfilled, then you admit to a third Temple in Jerusalem with the Anti-Christ sitting there.

I thought you believed that Nero was Anti-Christ? Even if his name DOES have the numerical value of 666, his is not the only one to do so. There have been others, and they weren't the Anti-Christ either.

So I see that you DO believe that the Revelation prophecies are yet to be fulfilled.

450donn · Mar 5, 2009, 03:52 PM

You have to remember that some so called christian churches do not believe in the rapture, or the end of times. They have some unfounded notions that we are either in the tribulation and that there will be a "great" tribulation in the future. Or some other such silly notion. Those people apparently cannot read the bible and understand what it is telling us about the end of times without some other book written by man to interpret the bible for them. Other books are nice to read and use for edification, but many do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Just because a book is sold in a Christian book store does not necessarily mean it is teaching the Word of God correctly.

arcura · Mar 5, 2009, 09:18 PM

classyT,
Please read closely what I said.
I said that MOST of Revelation has been fulfilled.
The Third Temple obviously has not been built as history tells us.
History does tell us what has been fulfilled.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

galveston · Mar 6, 2009, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

classyT,
Please read closely what I said.
I said that MOST of Revelation has been fulfilled.
The Third Temple obviously has not been built as history tells us.
History does tell us what has been fulfilled.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Going to have to disagree with you again, Fred.
We are NOW living in the Church age, as pictured by the letters to the 7 churches in Asia Minor. Since we are STILL in that age, IT is not yet completely fulfilled yet.
Everything else in Revelation happens AFTER the Church age.

I doubt this will convince you, but it is so anyway.

arcura · Mar 6, 2009, 07:17 PM

galveston ,
OK to believe as you wish.
You know that I will.
Thanks anyway,
Peace and kindness,
Fred

artlady · Mar 6, 2009, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

The first thing that is gonna happen is the rapture of the Church...then the revealing of the Antichrist and him signing a 7 year peace treaty with Israel. There is NOTHING that needs to happen..the stage is set and it could happen any time.

It will NOT be just like the left behind series...that was fun to read but it was fiction. There were things in left behind that was not biblically correct...such as knowing, hearing and even preaching the gospel but being left behind and still having a chance for salvation. The Bible is clear, if you have heard the gospel and rejected it...you get no second chance.

That is very interesting to me about the signing of the peace treaty with Israel.Can anyone explain the significance of that as I thought the Israelite were God's chosen people.

arcura · Mar 6, 2009, 07:58 PM

artlady,
The bible says that the Jews ARE God's first born.
According to ancient law the first born are those the inherit. That is why Jesus was born a Jew.
God did not and will not ignore Israel.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

galveston · Mar 7, 2009, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by artlady

That is very interesting to me about the signing of the peace treaty with Israel.Can anyone explain the significance of that as I thought the Israelite were God's chosen people.

Israel will be restored to favor with God during the Great Tribulation. Of course, they will suffer greatly, and many will die, but the remnant will accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah, and they will be protected and move on into the Millennium.

As to the peace treaty, you have to understand that most of the rest of the world will be against Israel at that time. Anti-Christ will sign a 7 year peace treaty with Israel but he will break it after 3 1/2 years and invade.

There have been many treaties made with Israel and her enemies, but none have lasted for long. Someone will appear on the scene who has enough influence with the Muslims to convince them to let Israel alone. That man will be the Anti-Christ, the Man of Sin.

arcura · Mar 7, 2009, 01:47 PM

galveston,
THAT was very interesting.
Fred

classyT · Mar 9, 2009, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by artlady

That is very interesting to me about the signing of the peace treaty with Israel.Can anyone explain the significance of that as I thought the Israelite were God's chosen people.

Well I completely agree with Galveston. You can see right now how Israel is God's chosen people. There is no earthly reason for that little nation to even be there. It is a MIRACLE. In my opinion for the scoffers out there that there that don't believe there IS a God and that the Bible is indeed true.. all one would have to do is look at the Jew and Israel. Ok, I will get off my soap box.

Anyway, I believe that the US ( who protects Israel now) will be in a position to where they will be unable to offer her help. We are in a terrible state economically right now... imagine if millions in this country were suddenly gone... disappeared into thin air. TALK ABOUT a mess. Israel WILL need protection and the answer will be the man of sin who comes on the scene as a man of wisdom, marvelous words and most importantly PEACE. The time is coming... I believe soon.

galveston · Mar 9, 2009, 08:42 AM

Some random thoughts about understanding the Book of Revelation.

The letters to the 7 churhes covers the Church age. We are still in it for now.

The 7 seals, especially the first 4, give an overview of conditions during the tribulation period.

The Book is made up of a series of visions. When you see the words "after this" you know a new vision is seen.

Visions of events are not necessarily in chronological order.

The events pictured cover everything from the rise of Anti-Christ until the establishment of the Kingdom under Christ in the Millennium.

For those of you who think that it is all historical, I can point out several things that have not happened yet.

Maybe this will help someone to better understand the Book.

classyT · Mar 9, 2009, 09:47 AM

Gal,

Again I agree witcha... I don't know if I said this before but I thought this was REALLY interesting... do you know Laodecia means? It is translated the peoples rights!! How relevant is that now. The bible is amazing.

sndbay · Mar 9, 2009, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by galveston

Maybe this will help someone to better understand the Book.

agree..

The 7 letters to the church can be seen as what now is taking place...

The 7 seals can be easily matched to the foretold warning to be watch that are written in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

Seal # 1 ( Rev 6:2 ) the white horse with the bow and crown (bow = toxon) apparently as the simplest fabric, worn by man matched to = Matthew 24:4

Seal # 2 ( Rev 6:3-4 ) red w/power is a war horse matched to the = Matthew 24:6

Seal # 3 ( Rev 6:5-5-6 ) black horse w/balances in hand, economy in bad shape (great sorrow) matched to = Matthew 24:7

Seal # 4 ( Rev 6:7 ) pale horse death/satan and hunger = Matthew 24:8

Seal # 5 (Rev 6: 9 ) souls slain for the spoken Word of God by testimony = Matthew 24:9

Seal # 6 (Rev 6: 12 ) sun became black, the moon became blood, stars fell from th sky = Matthew 24:29

Seal # 7 (Rev 7:2 thr 8:1) The Living God, he cries w/aloud voice (hurt not those w/The Seal of God within their forehead, his elect) = Matthew 24:30

{{{The Trumpets Begin}}}
Revelation 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The seals are our warning, and sealed within our forehead in the hope that we overcome satan/death by being the watchmen of righteousness in obedience. No one can be touch that has the seal within their forehead!
The Trumpets are the sound of executation of order, and the Veals are the wrath of God.

Add your answer here.