[binx44]

I live in Nova Scotia on a privately owned road. There are four houses on the road and then its nothing but forest on one side until you almost get into town and a river another direction and roads the other two directions. There are also a total of 5 dogs on the road counting mine.
Yesterday There was a major snow storm here. Dropped around two feet of snow or more it started late morning and snowed all through the night last night.
At 3:30 in the afternoon I took rebel out to pee like I always do before my boyfriend gets home. We did what we usually do, I took him on the leash around back to the gate to our fenced in yard. Opened the gate walked in, took him off-leash and turned to shut the gate ( tis the way I ALWAYS do it) normally he stands there and waits for me or rushes off towards the glass doors to the sun room to see if the other dog is going to come out or not. But yesterday he BOLTED past the gate before I could even get it closed. We tried to catch him for THREE hours in the snow ( I have a bad knee, I am not allowed to walk long distances, run, jog, jump or even sit cross legged [dr's orders] and its been that way for years) I enlisted the help of two of our neighbors because thankfully he took off towards the river, than off to the ravine (which he scaled no problem up and down) and off towards the woods instead of towards the two roads.
We tried enticing him to come back with the neighbors dog (he has a crush on her) that almost worked. My boyfriend got home at almost 4:30 and helped me search more (mind you he exploded and yelled at me for losing the dog than apologized for it) Finally we couldn't stay out any more My knees were killing me I could barely walk in the deep snow any more. I called animal control to let them know my dog was loose..
He wouldn't come when called which didn't make sense because he will normally when he is indoors or its time to come in. we tried getting him to jump in the truck ( he is obsessed with going for drives) but even that didn't work.
Finally we left the front door wide open (brrr wasn't it cold) and after 20 minutes he came jogging in like nothing had ever even happened. We called the previous owners quite a while before that to let them know in case he showed up to their house way on the top of the mountain. They said in the 6 years they owned him he had only gotten loose twice and went to see the dogs down the road.
Back before we got him he was only ever taken on VERY short infrequent walks(10 to 15 min max once or twice a week) or was tied out to his dog house. Once spring and summer hit I don't want to be worried about him not coming when called, due to the fact he isn't fixed (I've had this discussion before in a post about fixing. So please don't talk about that lol) I don't want him going woman hunting.
Usually when you yell his name and sound mad he drops to the ground and freezes until you come up to him and take ahold of his collar.
He is a carolina dog (a primitive swamp breed from carolina) so wildness is still in his genetics (they can be domesticated just like singing dogs) and he can run like a greyhound if not faster. (he beat the truck to the end of the lane by the ravine and my boyfriends father was going quite fast in all consideration of the snow)

What I was wondering is how I would go about training him to come when commanded. He had basically no training where he came from besides being house trained and taught one trick. But he is normally extremely well behaved. He is 6 almost 7 but I know old dogs can be taught new things.. after all we did teach the 14 year old dog in the house things.

[plonak]

You can always teach a dog new tricks..

Have you ever heard of Ceaser Millan's show the Dog Whisperer? He has a book out as well on how to train dogs. He shows you that it first starts with you, and your confidence.

You have to KNOW that you're the pack leader and that you have authority. Dogs are smart, they can sense tones and inflections, and if they ever hear any hint of intimidation in your voice, they will not listen to you.

Also, I know you said you don't want to discuss neutering, but I should say one thing.. no matter how much training, or how much pleading you do with the dog, when he smells a female dog in heat (which he can smell for miles away) NOTHING, and I MEAN NOTHING will stop him from wanting to get to her.. they are mindlessly driven by that smell..

So, that's just some insight on why he probably was not listening to you when you called him... it's up to you if you want to neuter him, but it's really the safest thing you can do for the dog..

[starbuck8]

Binx hon, I was so worried that the story was going to end badly. Thank God it didn't, and Rebel is back home and safe. :)

I know that you know I would have recommended Cesars techniques also. But, of course you also know how I feel about neutering him. I'm not going to lecture you. I know how you feel about it. It really is different than a human being casterated though right? It's not mean, and aside from the initial "discomfort," it really does have major health benefits, (prostate cancer in males, among other things) and it does keep them at home for the most part. In other words, the instinct that they have to mate is greatly decreased, so the need to flee becomes less of a problem. I wouldn't doubt for a second that this is why he wouldn't listen to you, when he normally would. Also, like you said, he is a Carolina dog. They are used to running free with a pack.

Basically the only other option you have other than training with Cesars methods or with others that can work just as well, you would have to resort to putting him in a dog run, or tying him up, which I'm sure you wouldn't want to do, and that would cause a ton of more problems, and I sure wouldn't advocate that.

I do like Cesars methods of getting a dog to stay behind an invisible wall, and to not leave it unless given a command. As I've said, some people don't like Cesars methods, for whatever reason, but I find that if they are used correctly, they really do work. It's just a matter of understanding the method and apply the technique.

Good luck, and I hope Rebel sticks close to home from now on, and you don't have to go chasing after him in the snow. ;)

[binx44]

We're all glad it didn't turn out horribly. I had so many people looking for him with me which might of added to him not coming back sooner (he didn't know some of them and doesn't completely trust strangers) Yes darlin, I know your views on nutering heck I think I know everyone's opinion on it.. I figured people would mention it none the less. And yes I know its different than humans lol :D looking back at all my pets I've realized I've had cows, steers, horses, dogs, cats and goats and I've never gotten any of them fixed. I don't think I even got one giving to me that was fixed ( I tend to take in animals even when I know I shouldnt) tomorrow I am going to the only bookstore within 20 min drive of me and checking to see if they have cesars book or not. I can always order it in.
Your right there I wouldn't tie him up again. He doesn't take very well to that now that he is here but the dog run.. he has one. Its our whole backyard fenced in. soon to be possibly our whole property (my boyfriends parents are trying to decide on using a normal fence or invisable fencing. Me I'd rather have a normal every day fence.) He does act funny in storms so I should have taken that into account when I took him off his leash. I realize now that knowing how he acted when it was storming I should have closed the gate first and it never would have happened

[binx44]

Sitting here I decided to research Caesar a bit before buying his book and even though some may disagree with me I think he is abusive and I would never buy his book lest it support him in harming more animals.

('Dog Whisperer' Cesar Millan sued by TV producer - USATODAY.com) I watched Video of some of his episodes and read a lawsuit set against him by a TV producer allegedly due to choke chaining and forcing his lab onto a treadmill. Hours after dropping the dog off at the facility, Suarez claimed a worker called to inform him the animal had been rushed to a veterinarian. He later found the dog "bleeding from his mouth and nose, in an oxygen tent gasping for breath and with severe bruising to his back inner thighs," he spent at least $25,000 on medical bills and the dog must undergo more surgeries for damage to his esophagus.
Watching the video's of his show I witnessed him forcing dogs onto the floor, grabbing dogs (which will get you bitten) in vice like holds on the back of their neck etc...

Now I am not bashing anyone at all whom believes in using these methods that he teaches. But I do notice his lack of qualifications. I personally train horses using a no stress no pain and no breaking of their spirit like they used to do in the olden days. Which is exactally what he is doing with these dogs. Breaking them and covering up the problem not fixing it. They don't use the method on horses any more so why do they think they can do it to dogs. Sure my dog ran away once. In the middle of a snow storm. But he is a very sensitive dog and I know if he was ever hit or forced to do something he would react in a very bad way causing harm to whomever was trying to forcefully command him or to someone else . To me him and Brad Pattison are almost the same with cesar being worse sadly. Sure brad is abusive to families and to the pets but at least he doesn't force flooding onto dogs.
Also Cesar is SEXEST which saddens me even more. Have you watched the outtakes in season 1 on the dvd's?
Women are the worst offenders in his world. In one of the outtakes included in the four-DVD set of the first season of ''Dog Whisperer,'' Mr. Millan explains that a woman is ''the only species that is wired different from the rest.'' And a ''woman always applies affection before discipline,'' he says. ''Man applies discipline then affection, so we're more psychological than emotional. All animals follow dominant leaders; they don't follow lovable leaders.''
So in turn. Each to his own. Use whatever methods you would like on your animals. Every animal is different but me personally will never ever use his or brads methods in my opinion it is inhumane
And starbuck PLEASE don't take this as an insult to you for using the methods... I am not trying to bash anyone just stating what I learned and why I wouldn't use the techniques.

[starbuck8]

No offense taken Michelle. I have heard this story too, but in my understanding whatever happened at the phychology center had to do with a new employee of Cesars, and not Cesar himself. Of course since Cesar owns the center, he himself is being sued. Also, until the court case goes to trial, they are allegations.

I have seen Cesar take down dogs. These are normally red zone cases, and is when he trying not to get bitten by a powerful dog. When Cesar puts a dog into a submissive position, he doesn't use force, but explains the pressure points that he is using that make the dog stay down. Unless you watch him and listen to how he explains it, it could be mistaken for a kick, when it's not. I've also heard people say that he kicks the dogs. If you see how he does it, it isn't a kick, but rather a tap with your leg on the back of the dogs body, just to divert it's attention.

I'm surprised to hear of the choke collar, because it's not often I seen him use one, although there have been a few instances, where that is what the owner want to use, but I've never seen him use one on a treadmill.

I've used the pressure point "bite" on Niki once. I barely applied any pressure, just made sure it was the right pressure point, and I only did it because Niki was in danger, and as I said, with hardly any pressure at all. Of course you know I would never do anything to hurt my Nikster. The only other time I used the technique with the "bite" is when Niki was getting attacked, and even then, I still didn't use much pressure, but used a slight bit more because I could have also been bitten, and I knew I had to get the other dog under control before it got worse. Niki had to have 86 stitches as it was.

I think if Cesars techniques are used correctly as he explains them, then really all that needs to be used are commands and corrections until the dog understands, from my experience anyway. I've seen so many people who think that taking a dog out for a walk for exercise, means letting it stop at every tree to sniff around.

Anyway, I guess we'll see what happens with Cesars case, but I will still follow his techniques since they've always worked for me.

I hope Rebel stops running away from Mommy! ;)

[binx44]

Thanks for giving me more of an insight on that. They actually don't mention pressure points on any of the websites. The url is the page about the lawsuit if you want to take a look.
He was really good today but now he doesn't like going in deep snow

[Silverfoxkit]

I had an idea that might help you. I use to have a problem with my two dogs bolting through any and all doors in the house. They would run to the door jump on it, run back to me and practically take my legs out when I opened it. One of them only managed to bolt outside once thankfully, but after nearly getting knocked down the stairs I said enough was enough. I started making them sit before they went through any door, and stay sitting until I said they could go through. There were plenty of knocked noggin's at first, because if they budged to run through I would quickly close it back and they would often hit their heads. Eventually they got tired of it, and decided to wait to see if mommy was done closing it on their faces. After a while they began tp pick up on it, and most of the time now I don't even need to tell them to sit. They walk up, sit down politely, and wait for me to tell them its okay. Perhaps you could try a similar method, and teach your dog to sit at every door and the outside gate. For that part you might need a training lead until the dog catches on that he has to sit before you will open the thing and keep it open. This won't be foolproof since he isn't neutered, and if there is a female in heat nearby you can forget any training. Perhaps since you seem to have decent neighbors, you can ask any that have unspayed females to give you a call if they go into heat so that you can be more ready for grand escape attempts to save both of you trouble. I hope it helps!!

[starbuck8]

Good advice Silver. I also want to say that I read through my last post, and I could have worded it a little different, so it made more sense, and stayed a little more in context. It seemed as I was a little bit all over the place. ;) That's what happens when I'm tired and haven't had my morning coffee. It sounds good in my head, and I know what I want to say, but often it doesn't come across that way does it! LOL!

[binx44]

Starbuck. That's how it always seems to go without coffee and in the morning lol.
Silver - that what we thought would be a good idea and I've started doing it every time we go though the gate or any doors. Thanks a bunch everyone for your input