[ScottGem]

Thanks excon, I couldn't remember the exact process to check for a forwarding. I figured the PO would tell them.

[brady628]

Hello O:

Sure:

(1) I'd wait till they're gone before you try to show the house. They're not going to help you rent it.

(2) Before you rent next time, rent the movie "Pacific Palisades".

(3) Get a better application.

excon

Wasn't the movie called... Pacific Heights?

[excon]

wasn't the movie called ....Pacific Heights?

Hello brady:

Yeah, I'm old.

excon

[Orange2008]

Yes, Pacific Heights... OH, I've seen that movie several times - so dumb and naïve are we!! :)

[Orange2008]

If freezing pipes are a concern, then turn the gas back on. You might check with the Post Office to see if they left a forwarding address.

I met the gas man today & he turned to gas back on & I went with him to light pilots & check the furnaces & thermostats. I didn't go anywhere he wasn't there & left when he left because I don't want any more burglary charges trying to be filed against us. The house still had a lot of furniture in it & their dog.

Since they turned the gas off yesterday & are having the electric turned off Friday (I'll check to see if they had it moved up), can I assume abandonment on Friday & change the locks? Can I do it because the gas has already been shut off?

Even though they have items in the house, they appear to not be sleeping there. Beds are without linens and even mattresses on the floor. The kitchen looks cleaned out, but like I said, I didn't go through anything to verify whether they are living there or not.

Also... they have not forwarded their mail yet and when they do we would have to subpoena the post office for their address. How else can you get it?

[Orange2008]

Hello again, O:

Scott gave you an excellent suggestion. However, I don't think the PO will just give up that information...

Send an empty envelope to the house with FIRST class postage AND your return address. TYPE a note on the envelope, saying: "Address correction requested". The Post Office will then send you their forwarding address if there is one.

excon

I like this idea. The PO definitely won't just give this over the phone. Where are on the envelope would you put "address correction requested"?

[Orange2008]

Maybe I should post a new thread about where to go from here?

[ScottGem]

No, keep the thread here. I think if they have shut off the utilities and moved out their belongings you can change the locks. Make sure you have proof the house was emptied and statements from the utilities.

[Orange2008]

They have stuff there still. But, I will have proof of utilities showing that I took over gas today & Friday will take over electric.

My husband believes they are going to leave a few remaining items to "look" like they haven't vacated so they can delay us renting so it will financially hurt us while we pay for 2 places.

Today their dog was there, but tonight when we showed the house, the dog was gone. I believe they are still moving stuff, but are no longer living or sleeping there.

If I have both utilities in my name by Friday, isn't it fair to say they cannot be living there without utilities? If there are remaining items, I'll hold them until they pay the rent.

Don't you think a judge would believe they have abandoned the property when they are no longer having the utilities on?

They emailed me back late today and said they have not vacated & have not abandoned the property, but will NOT answer my questions about what date will they be out, when will they pay rent, & how will I get my keys/garage door opener back.

Of course, I also said "So you are intending to live there without heat or hot water since you already had the gas turned off?" And yes, I got no answer to that either. Would a judge buy that they are living there without heat or hot water (by choice - they scheduled the shut off) in the middle of winter?

[ScottGem]

Here's your problem. Arbitrarily changing the locks can cause you a problem. So you want to be very careful there.

You said you served them with a pay or quit. I would follow through on that and go to court for the order. When you go to the hearing show the judge what is going on and he may give you permission to change the locks.

[excon]

If there are remaining items, I'll hold them until they pay the rent.

Hello again, O:

You can't hold their property. That's called stealing, and they'll call the cops on you again.

You should NEVER, EVER be a landlord again.

Plus, I told you to stop talking to them. You didn't listen.

excon

[Orange2008]

Here's your problem. Arbitrarily changing the locks can cause you a problem. So you want to be very careful there.

You said you served them with a pay or quit. I would follow through on that and go to court for the order. When you go to the hearing show the judge what is going on and he may give you permission to change the locks.

Okay, you have a point. I will follow through & ask for permission to change the locks if they have stuff remaining there.

HOWEVER, I believe the house will be bare by Friday night - if the house has nothing in it & I have the utilities in my name and their mail has been forwarded, then could I assume abandonment & rekey the locks?

[Orange2008]

Hello again, O:

You can't hold their property. That's called stealing, and they'll call the cops on you again.

You should NEVER, EVER be a landlord again.

Plus, I told you to stop talking to them. You didn't listen.

excon

Excon, I am showing the house & giving them 24 hr notice EVERY time I'm showing so they have NO cause against us. So, this is why I still have contact!

Our lease also states that if I try to communicate with them for ANY reason and I cannot get them to respond, I have cause for eviction. Just trying to prepare and show that I made reasonable efforts & they failed to respond to me.

And there is NO option about being a landlord again. We own the property and in this economy it isn't going to sell for months & months. We cannot afford 2 properties. So, we will be re-renting the property. And I will be much more careful while also re-writing some of our lease to cover issues that have come up here.

The truth is, our house is immaculate and these people were just plain crazy! See for yourself: http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/1007882980.html

I wouldn't be stealing their stuff IF they abandon the property. I guess I just cannot "hold their stuff" is what you are saying without following the below!!

It states "If the tenant abandons or surrenders possession of the dwelling unit or has been lawfully removed from the premises through eviction proceedings and leaves household goods, furnishings, fixtures, or any other personal property of an ascertainable or apparent value in the dwelling unit including property classified as exempt from a landlord's lien pursuant to Section 133 of this title, the landlord may take possession of the property and give notice to the tenant, demanding that the property be removed within the dates set out in the notice but not less than fifteen (15) days after delivery or mailing of such notice, and that if the property is not removed within the time specified in the notice, the landlord may sell the property at a public sale. The landlord may dispose of perishable commodities in any manner the landlord considers fit. Payment by the tenant of all outstanding rent, damages, storage fees, court costs and attorneys fees shall be a prerequisite to the return of the personal property. For purposes of this section, notice sent by certified mail to the tenant's last-known address with forwarding requested shall be deemed sufficient notice.

So, if they do not have the gas or electric on & they are no longer sleeping in the house, doesn't that qualify as abandonment? If so, isn't rekeying a standard procedure for an abandoned property?

If the property is abandoned, then why can't I make a prerequisite of the return of personal property based on payment of outstanding rent and anything else not covered by the security deposit? Isn't that what this is saying? Am I reading this wrong?

I will continue the process of eviction, but I'd like to be able to get someone else in the house before the end of the month.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm trying to understand.

[ScottGem]

HOWEVER, I believe the house will be bare by Friday night - if the house has nothing in it & I have the utilities in my name and their mail has been forwarded, then could I assume abandonment & rekey the locks?

Here's where you need a witness. Go through the house with a video camera and a witness to attest to its accuracy.

I would also contact your local housing court to see what they would accept as proof of abandonment.

[Orange2008]

Thanks! Will do!

[Orange2008]

Thanks excon for the compliment. This is why the situation is just so weird and so odd why they were making so many claims about the house - that we weren't providing heat and it wasn't habitable. That's why I said they were CRAZY!

[Orange2008]

Okay, here's what I got today: We will completely be out by Monday Feb 9th. We are going to send your key and garage door openers through certified mail. We only got one key, as your husband only gave us one initially and we never got another, but we do have the two garage openers to forward to you.

Now, I don't want those items sent certified mail - I should have them asap. Can I demand that?

And the power will be shut off the 6th. The power & gas will be in my name then. They are NOT living there. Do I wait until the 9th then?

I wanted to show the house on Saturday - open house. This will delay any potential of renting it this weekend. They are just dragging their feet.

[ScottGem]

Check your lease and local law. It might compel them to have a final walkthrough. If so, you can tell them that they need to meet you at the property for such a walkthru and the handover of the keys. You may have to wait until the 9th for this walkthru. In the meantime you are proceeding with the eviction order.

If they refuse to have the walkthru or if there is nothing to compel them to, respond that you will take possession of the property on the morning of the 9th (since they said BY the 9th).

TELL them also, that you are having an open house on the 7th. Any possessions of their's still in the property will be placed in the garage or some other part of the house.

[Orange2008]

Check your lease and local law. It might compel them to have a final walkthrough. if so, you can tell them that they need to meet you at the property for such a walkthru and the handover of the keys. You may have to wait until the 9th for this walkthru. In the meantime you are proceeding with the eviction order.

If they refuse to have the walkthru or if there is nothing to compel them to, respond that you will take possession of the property on the morning of the 9th (since they said BY the 9th).

TELL them also, that you are having an open house on the 7th. Any possessions of their's still in the property will be placed in the garage or some other part of the house.

Wait - I'm re-reading the lease again. Here's what it says:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...possession.jpg

Doesn't this say that I can take possession of the premises at my option for failing to pay the rent? I mean, if so, can't I justify the fact they have no heat, no hot water & no electric as of the 6th and therefore, go ahead & change the locks because they are no longer occupying the residence? And especially, since they receive the Notice to Pay or Quit and I gave them 3 days. They haven't been living in the house since the 2nd for sure (the same day they got notice).

I could still do the walk-thru with someone on the 6th with a camera and show they are no longer sleeping/living there. Then, I'd move their possessions to the garage (since they have the openers) and they could easily come & remove those items at any time but NO longer be able to get into the house. What do you think?

[Orange2008]

Today they had the water turned off and the trash container is still sitting by the street after yesterday's trash (they set the trash out Tuesday when they picked up their dog). It is obvious they aren't living there.

I have an appointment for tomorrow afternoon to re-key the house. I don't care if they think they can claim they are there because they still have stuff in the house, they have NO utilities as of tomorrow and the house is clearly abandoned.

Any further advice?? I was waiting to do this to make sure there are no big red flags that someone may point out.