[Emland]

Here in Tidewater, VA there has been a story about a man who shot and killed a police officer during a raid.

The accused said he believed he was a victim of a home invasion and was protecting himself.

The CPD claim he was high and enraged. Prosecution says Frederick was high, enraged on fatal night | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com


My question. Can someone who is high become enraged?

I do believe this young man is guilty of manslaughter because he did not identify his target before shooting, but I do not believe he is guilty of capital murder. The CHP has also done some questionable things and I am watching to see how it turns out.

[tomder55]

I think he has a good chance of getting off. If the police thought he was growing pot in the garage ;there was no need to enter the house 1st . Even if he was ;is there any evidence that he wasn't growing it for personal use ? The Police tactics do not seem justified given the suspicions.

Can someone who is high become enraged?

Depends on what he was taking . The article only talks of pot .But that doesn't preclude other drugs /booze etc.

[TexasParent]

Surely they could have surrounded the house at a distance to prevent escape and used a megaphone to announce their presence and to open the door.

I'm certain that it isn't the first time a suspect has been watching loud TV or music when the police come calling.

In a country where homeowners carry guns and have the notion that using a weapon to protect their 'castle' is justified. Just what do the police expect when they come calling? Especially with suspected criminals?

I would have to question police tactics here. It seems they should change there method of serving a warrant where the physical property allows it. Keeping in mind officer safety as a priority.

As for being enraged, is that really an issue? What if the police come calling while somebody is yelling at their kid for destroying the TV with a baseball in the house? Police don't know the mental state of the people they are serving warrants too; I would assume they should assume that state is hostile for safety sake until they determine otherwise.

[excon]

The CPD claim he was high and enraged.... Prosecution says Frederick was high, enraged on fatal night...

My question. Can someone who is high become enraged?

Hello Em:

Sure. I'm angry as hell right now that the cops would do something SO stupid...

Couple things, though. I see that the cops CLAIM he was high, but they don't have any proof. I don't know why not. The cops ARE familiar with drug testing...

This is a "he said, she said" situation... But, it really doesn't matter WHO you believe, because BOTH could be telling the truth. Besides, what they SAID about it, ISN'T really relavant... It's what they DID that counts.

The cops made TWO major errors that wound up getting their own cop shot..

In order to get a search warrant, the cops needed probable cause. That means they have to have "reliable information" that something illegal is going on. The word "reliable" is key. If they use a snitch, the snitch MUST have been used before WITH positive results. An anonymous phone call ISN'T "reliable".

It's clear that they didn't have reliable information, because no grow-op was found... Whatever procedures they use to get warrants, therefore, is flawed. That flaw alone could have resulted in the cops death...

But, they compounded their mistake by going in plain clothes. There was NO reason for that. They weren't hiding who they were at that point - or at least, they SHOULDN'T have been hiding who they were. Exactly the opposite was true. They should have been in UNIFORM with their badges held high in their hands...

In my view, those two mistakes, NOT the homeowners actions, are the reasons this happened.

excon

[Emland]

It gets better, Excon. The informant was the burglar.

There are trying to determine if the cops knew about this prior to the raid.

[excon]

It gets better, Excon. The informant was the burglar.... They're are trying to determine if the cops knew about this prior to the raid.

Hello again, Em:

If the snitch told the cops he was inside the house, you'd think the cops would have wanted to know WHY he was there. They didn't. Plus, the snitch obviously wasn't telling the truth in any case.

The above only makes the cops "reliable" informant even more UNRELIABLE, and makes them look even stupider than they already looked.

Does ANY of my rational and reasoned argument above mean that the homeowner will get off?? Nahhh. Not at all. He killed a cop. Nobody wants to let a cop killer off, especially a drug using cop killer. He'll be convicted.

excon

[Emland]

Frederick has strong support here in Tidewater.

The strange gets stranger. This morning, the cop's widow testified. She has no knowledge of the events, but cried on the stand for 30 minutes. I can understand her grief, but why a witness who knows nothing of the case was called is beyond me.

[michealb]

I think given the story from both sides, I probably would have shot the officer as well. He was robbed 3 days before hand by the informant.

Even if the guy was growing pot in his garage. Why storm in the middle of the night post one guy find out when he comes home from work take him in the driveway tons safer than entering a building.

[tomder55]

This is an earth flipping on it's axis moment as I agree that the guy had a perfect right to fire on someone he thought had violated the "security of his home" .If there is any rationale for the 4th amendment it is security of the home .

Excon is absolutely right in that there was no reason for entry without uniform and proper identification.

[speechlesstx]

I’d also have to side with Frederick in this case, it certainly seems like overkill to send two vans of police officers to raid a guy’s house over a little alleged weed based on information from a couple of burglars. But, in this “he said, she said” case, earlier reports do indicate the police were not in plain clothes:

Police spokeswoman Christina Golden has said police [URL=" http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/im-not-murderer-they-make-me-out-be "]were wearing badges and helmets marked[/URL with the word “POLICE,” and they announced their presence at the door.

Still, it was a senseless tragedy all around and I agree with michaelb that this guy could have been taken in his driveway. I think a little investigation or surveillance would have given them enough info to catch him coming home from or leaving for work without the need of a SWAT team. It doesn’t have a thing to do with him being high and enraged, the police are just trying to cover their butts and he was just defending himself and his castle.

[excon]

I think a little investigation or surveillance would have given them enough info to catch him coming home from or leaving for work without the need of a SWAT team.

Hello Steve:

You're right... But, the cops aren't looking for the most sensible way to bust somebody. They're looking for the opportunity to BUST somebody. Cops don't bust people the easy way. They OVERPOWER them with LOTS of force, point guns at them, throw them on the ground, and step on their heads.

Do they distinguish between busting an armed killer and a pot grower? Nahhh. That would involve thinking. If fact, if they thought about it all, they'd leave 'em alone.

With the exception of the faulty warrant, and showing up in plain clothes and/or helmets, THIS police force acted like ALL police forces do when they bust pot growers. Just in case you thought the war on pot was a thing of the past...

excon

[speechlesstx]

Just in case you thought the war on pot was a thing of the past....

Easy there buddy, I'm actually on your side on this. Perhaps the universe has flipped...

[Emland]

Verdict came in yesterday. Ryan Frederick was convicted of manslaughter.

I was hoping for acquittal in this case, but this is a lot better than capital murder. His attorney vows to appeal.

[excon]

He'll be convicted.

Hello again, Em:

Do I know 'em, or what??

excon