[classyT]

I have run into so many "Christians" lately who believe that there are many paths to God. I was wondering what this verse means? It happens to be my favorite verse... it is on a little decorative rock in my flower bed, it is on my living room wall and it is on a picture frame in my bedroom. So my question is... how do Christians that believe the many paths theory get around this verse?

I am the way, the truth and the life. No Man comes to the Father but by me. John 14:6

Jesus Christ said it... doesn't sound very "tolerant" or "open minded" to me. What say you?

[450donn]

Exactly what it says. I (Jesus) am the way( to the father), the truth ( of my existence) and the life ( the one true way to salvation). No man comes to the father except by me. ( no man can claim that he is in direct contact with God except Jesus)
Don's explanation.
So praying to Mary,Joseph, or anybody other than through Jesus is not the way to reach the throne of God. In my opinion

[sndbay]

The pride and power that people have given to Oprah's way.. It is a false teaching!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seAPQ9WihN0&NR=1



2 Cr 3:11 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

[inthebox]

I think it is very tolerant.

It is not written "you must,..... or else"

It is a statement and it opens up other questions:

Do you believe in "the father?"

Do you want to come to "the father?"

If yes, well, here is the way :)

[ for Thomas [v 5 ] the answers were yes ]





G*P

[sndbay]

2 Cr 3:11 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

450donn

I am not sure why you disagreed? The simplicity of Christ is that He is the only way. To believe there are others ways is to have your mind beguiled as Eve was.. Zero tolerant because your mind is corrupted!

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.(Jhn 14:6)

What I had commented on was the statement that was made---.quote: that many "Christians" lately who believe that there are many paths to God..

I consider it a false teaching, and the source is Oprah. That is why I gave the web link showing Oprah's way...

Are you saying you believe what Oprah teaches?

[450donn]

OOPS! Guess I was misreading your comments. Yes, Oprah is a false teacher. She has a cult like following that is/has made her very powerful. I just did not understand the correlation between that and the OP's question.

[De Maria]

I have run into so many "Christians" lately who believe that there are many paths to God. I was wondering what this verse means? It happens to be my favorite verse...it is on a little decorative rock in my flower bed, it is on my living room wall and it is on a picture frame in my bedroom. So my question is...how do Christians that believe the many paths theory get around this verse?

I am the way, the truth and the life. No Man comes to the Father but by me. John 14:6

Jesus Christ said it....doesn't sound very "tolerant" or "open minded" to me. What say you?

I also believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. And no one comes to the Father but through Him.

But I wonder, how did the Jews before Christ, come to the Father without Christ? Or did all the Jews perish in eternal hell?

The only way I can answer that is that they came through Christ, to the Father, after they died. Does that mean that some who don't know Christ in this life may come to the Father through Christ after they die also?

[450donn]

I also believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. And no one comes to the Father but through Him.

But I wonder, how did the Jews before Christ, come to the Father without Christ? Or did all the Jews perish in eternal hell?

The only way I can answer that is that they came through Christ, to the Father, after they died. Does that mean that some who don't know Christ in this life may come to the Father through Christ after they die also?

But isn't that the difference between the old and new testament? In the old testament (BC) people could and often did talk directly to God. They also had the ten commandments to follow. They also had the priests appointed to offer sacrifices for their sins.
In the New testament (AD) God provided the ultimate sacrifice for our sins by sending his Son, Jesus, to the cross for us.
The Jews are a different story altogether are they not? Since they are Gods chosen people can they fail and go to hell? I really cannot answer that for you.
Third part of your comments, the answer is a resounding NO! A person that has died is finished and he/she will have to stand before the throne of God and answer for their actions on Judgment day. No one can pray and have them saved after they are dead. Salvation is a one on one experience. Each person MUST ask and accept the free gift of salvation on their own. The words must be spoken by the person asking for the gift.

[De Maria]

But isn't that the difference between the old and new testament? In the old testament (BC) people could and often did talk directly to God. They also had the ten commandments to follow. They also had the priests appointed to offer sacrifices for their sins.

According to St. Paul, the sacrifices weren't effective:
Hebrews 10:4
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

In the New testament (AD) God provided the ultimate sacrifice for our sins by sending his Son, Jesus, to the cross for us.

Correct. And He instituted the gift of Baptism to apply those merits to our souls and make us children of God.

The Jews are a different story altogether are they not? Since they are Gods chosen people can they fail and go to hell?

And God Himself warned the Jews that they could fall:

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

I really cannot answer that for you.
Third part of your comments,

This one?

The only way I can answer that is that they came through Christ, to the Father, after they died. Does that mean that some who don't know Christ in this life may come to the Father through Christ after they die also?

the answer is a resounding NO! A person that has died is finished and he/she will have to stand before the throne of God and answer for their actions on Judgment day.

Who said they didn't? You seem to be reading something into my post which isn't there.

No one can pray and have them saved after they are dead.

Who said they could? Did I?

Or are you referring to the well known fact that the Jews prayed for their dead?

The only other thing I can figure is that you are somehow misunderstanding the doctrine of Purgatory, not realizing that those in Purgatory are already saved.

Salvation is a one on one experience. Each person MUST ask and accept the free gift of salvation on their own. The words must be spoken by the person asking for the gift.

Since you seem to be denying that this could happen in the after life, I assume you mean that these conditions which you list must happen when one is alive.

But you seem to have left out the name of Jesus.

So, are you saying that one can ask for salvation without mentioning Jesus? Or should I assume that you mean "salvation through Jesus"?

Also, I don't think that God acts differently from one time to another. If God is absolute. And one must come to the Father through Christ, I suspect the Jewish Fathers also had to go through Christ to be saved.

The only way I can see that happening is in the after life. Because I believe that most of them died without knowing Jesus. Am I right?

[450donn]

OK, Then exactly how or what do you mean by this comment?
Quote
"The only way I can answer that is that they came through Christ, to the Father, after they died. Does that mean that some who don't know Christ in this life may come to the Father through Christ after they die also?"
From that I am reading that you are believing that the Jews or all people can be saved after death. Am I wrong in that interpretation?
Quote
"The only other thing I can figure is that you are somehow misunderstanding the doctrine of Purgatory, not realizing that those in Purgatory are already saved.How can people that are in Hell be saved????
Since you seem to be denying that this could happen in the after life, I assume you mean that these conditions which you list must happen when one is alive."
That is correct. There is to my knowledge nowhere in the scriptures that claim that a person can be prayed to salvation after they are dead. This I understand is a Catholic belief am I right or wrong on that?


Quote
"But you seem to have left out the name of Jesus.

So, are you saying that one can ask for salvation without mentioning Jesus? Or should I assume that you mean "salvation through Jesus"?"

That I did. I guess I assumed that everyone here on a Christian board would realize or understand that. If you did not, then that is my mistake and I apologize for that omission.

Quote
"Also, I don't think that God acts differently from one time to another. If God is absolute. And one must come to the Father through Christ, I suspect the Jewish Fathers also had to go through Christ to be saved.

The only way I can see that happening is in the after life. Because I believe that most of them died without knowing Jesus. Am I right?"

How can that happen. Jesus did not appear until 2,000 years ago. Until then the Jews were under the rule of law and the ten commandments. Even today the Jews do not accept Jesus was the son of God. so in reality are they not still under the old testament law of Moses? Besides we are not discussing the Jews, but new testament peoples.

[adam7gur]

I also believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. And no one comes to the Father but through Him.

But I wonder, how did the Jews before Christ, come to the Father without Christ?

The Jews before Christ got in touch with The Word ,that later became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ.So the Jews came also to the Father through Christ.
Who was the one that the Jews saw in the OT?It was not The Father because it is written that no one can see God and live,but they DID see God, so who was it?It was The Word who is also God but is not The Father!
I think we fail to understand better WHO JESUS CHRIST IS! Isn't He The Word and isn't everything made by The Word? So why do we picture Him and His glorified existence from the moment that He was born here on earth?

1 Samuel 3:7 Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD, neither was the word of the LORD yet revealed unto him.
Isaiah 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! For I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
Psalm 105:19 Until the time that his word came: the word of the LORD tried him.
Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

[Nestorian]

I have run into so many "Christians" lately who believe that there are many paths to God. I was wondering what this verse means? It happens to be my favorite verse...it is on a little decorative rock in my flower bed, it is on my living room wall and it is on a picture frame in my bedroom. So my question is...how do Christians that believe the many paths theory get around this verse?

I am the way, the truth and the life. No Man comes to the Father but by me. John 14:6

Jesus Christ said it....doesn't sound very "tolerant" or "open minded" to me. What say you?

:) I'm not really religious, though I am. How can that be you wonder..? Beause one may call me Atheist, while another may call me spiritual, christian, scientific, JEDI(no really, they have really gret philosophies, and no I can not move things with me mind, yet;)) They are all right and all wrong, and yet niether. Do you understand that?

I let others decide what I am, but only in their eyes. I am, and that is all I am. "There is no right or wrong, only possibilities." - Me

This verse "MAY" take on any number of meanings. Notice I can not say "IS", I had to use "MAY" because people will interpret things differntly. That means agree or disagree, or niether. It is subject to different interpretation, and can mean what ever you want it to. A word is just a bunch of letters stuffed together, until we decide that is means something.

My question it what does it mean to you? Trust yourself, and you will find that you usually know what is, or is not.

To me, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No Man comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6

This means, follow me and find yourself. You have to find yourself, and honor yourself, and realize just what yourself is.

Myself, is one and all. The vary air that I breath, is me. The food I eat is me. The people I meet, are me. "All are one, and one is all." - Led Zeppelin.

Peace and kindness.

P.S. "Believe nothing no matter where you read it, no matter who said it, no matter if I said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense.

All conditioned things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Try to accomplish your own salvation with diligence. Do not believe in anything simply because you heard it, do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many, do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books, do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders, do not believe in traditions because they have bin handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." - words of Buddha

[Athos]

I have run into so many "Christians" lately who believe that there are many paths to God. I was wondering what this verse means? It happens to be my favorite verse...it is on a little decorative rock in my flower bed, it is on my living room wall and it is on a picture frame in my bedroom. So my question is...how do Christians that believe the many paths theory get around this verse?

I am the way, the truth and the life. No Man comes to the Father but by me. John 14:6

Jesus Christ said it....doesn't sound very "tolerant" or "open minded" to me. What say you?

If by the "Father" is meant God, or heaven, or salvation or something akin to that, then the verse would be intolerant in the extreme since billions (that's billions with a B") of people over the millennia never heard of Jesus or Christianity.

I'm curious, why is it your favorite verse?

[classyT]

I also believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. And no one comes to the Father but through Him.

But I wonder, how did the Jews before Christ, come to the Father without Christ? Or did all the Jews perish in eternal hell?

The only way I can answer that is that they came through Christ, to the Father, after they died. Does that mean that some who don't know Christ in this life may come to the Father through Christ after they die also?

De Maria,

The Jews were under the Law. They had FAITH just as it always takes faith to please God. The sacrifices that the Lord instituted COVERED their sins because of their faith and the Father always knew that the perfect sacrifice would come and CLEANSE and WASH AWAY their sins. ALL those who died before Christ that had faith in God and followed the Jewish Law ( the Lord established) were SAVED. HOWEVER, they are not part of the Church of Christ or the Bride of Christ.

There is NOT ONE verse in the word of God that would suggest that someone gets a second chance after death... quite the contrary. But I found your thought very interesting.

[classyT]

If by the "Father" is meant God, or heaven, or salvation or something akin to that, then the verse would be intolerant in the extreme since billions (that's billions with a B") of people over the millenia never heard of Jesus or Christianity.

I'm curious, why is it your favorite verse?

Well, see I don't think it IS intolerant. I believe it is TRUTH. To me INTOLERANT is this...

God can't tolerate sin... not one... man is BORN a sinner. God wanted a relationship with man so he fixed the problem and sent his SON (who was perfect) to die for man. The only requirement to be with God is that you believe that His Perfect sacrifice Jesus is enough. OK... HERE COMES THE INTOLERANT part... man says... naaah God... I don't LIKE YOUR WAY... I will pick mine... it is as good as YOURS. Actually it isn't just intolerant... it is prideful, stupid and arrogant.

I am NOT calling you or anyone those things.. I am saying that is how I view saying NO to God. You know, I really believe Jesus Christ is the only way... and I believe it because HE SAID IT.

I love the verse because I am a Christian and I believe that verse to my very core. Thanks for your thoughts. :)

[classyT]

:) I'm not really religious, though i am. How can that be you wonder...?? Beause one may call me Athiest, while another may call me spiritual, christian, scientific, JEDI(no really, they have really gret philosophies, and no i can not move things with me mind, yet;)) They are all right and all wrong, and yet niether. Do you understand that??

I let others decide what i am, but only in their eyes. I am, and that is all I am. "There is no right or wrong, only possibilities." - Me

This verse "MAY" take on any number of meanings. Notice I can not say "IS", I had to use "MAY" due to the fact that people will interpret things differntly. That means agree or disagree, or niether. It is subject to differnt interpretation, and can mean what ever you want it to. A word is just a bunch of letters stuffed together, untill we decide that is means something.

My question it what does it mean to you?? Trust yourself, and you will find that you usually know what is, or is not.

To me, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No Man comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6

This means, follow me and find yourself. You have to find yourself, and honor yourself, and realize just what yourself is.

Myself, is one and all. The vary air that I breath, is me. The food i eat is me. The people i meet, are me. "All are one, and one is all." - Led Zeppelin.

Peace and kindness.

P.S. "Believe nothing no matter where you read it, no matter who said it, no matter if I said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense.

All conditioned things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Try to accomplish your own salvation with diligence. Do not believe in anything simply because you heard it, do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many, do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books, do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders, do not believe in traditions because they have bin handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." - words of Buddha

Hmmm? Well I appreciate your thoughts and I mean that. The problem is just that.. they are your thoughts or as you quoted others MAN's thoughts. I am interested in GOD's thoughts and especially when it has to do with where I will spend eternity.

I will say this... I do not believe anyone should take hold of any so called belief because a parent believes, a pastor says so or Buddha thinks it. I believe if Man wants to know the truth.. he must search for it in the Word of God and let the LORD reveal TRUTH. So I guess in a way... we can agree. ( a little) :)

[classyT]

I think it is very tolerant.

It is not written "you must,..... or else"

It is a statement and it opens up other questions:

Do you believe in "the father?"

Do you want to come to "the father?"

if yes, well, here is the way :)

[ for Thomas [v 5 ] the answers were yes ]




G*P

I agree with you!! It is a choice that is FREELY given to all who will receive it. I don't find it intolerant myself... but in today's world many do... (even so called Christians).

[classyT]

Exactly what it says. I (Jesus) am the way( to the father), the truth ( of my existence) and the life ( the one true way to salvation). No man comes to the father except by me. ( no man can claim that he is in direct contact with God except Jesus)
Don's explanation.
So praying to Mary,Joseph, or anybody other than through Jesus is not the way to reach the throne of God. IMHO

Well I never really looked at it like that... interesting thoughts and I agree with you as well.

[De Maria]

The Jews before Christ got in touch with The Word ,that later became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ.So the Jews came also to the Father through Christ.

Who was the one that the Jews saw in the OT?It was not The Father because it is written that noone can see God and live,but they DID see God, so who was it?It was The Word who is also God but is not The Father!
I think we fail to understand better WHO JESUS CHRIST IS! Isn't He The Word and isn't everything made by The Word? So why do we picture Him and His glorified existance from the moment that He was born here on earth?

1 Samuel 3:7 Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD, neither was the word of the LORD yet revealed unto him.
Isaiah 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
Psalm 105:19 Until the time that his word came: the word of the LORD tried him.
Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

That makes sense to a point. Because the Jews of Jesus day didn't recognize Christ:

Note what John says and he uses almost exactly the same words you do:

John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Jesus Himself agrees:
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

So, although the Jews had the word of God, they did not recognize Christ therein.
Therefore, even though your message seems to make sense, it doesn't account for the Jews skepticism of Christ.

[De Maria]

De Maria,

The Jews were under the Law. They had FAITH just as it always takes faith to please God. The sacrifices that the Lord instituted COVERED their sins because of their faith and the Father always knew that the perfect sacrifice would come and CLEANSE and WASH AWAY their sins. ALL those who died before Christ that had faith in God and followed the Jewish Law ( the Lord established) were SAVED. HOWEVER, they are not part of the Church of Christ or the Bride of Christ.

Are you saying they didn't have to go through Christ?

There is NOT ONE verse in the word of God that would suggest that someone gets a second chance after death... quite the contrary. But I found your thought very interesting.

That's confusing. Did I say something about a second chance after death? Or where did you get that idea?