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fdnyhunter · Jan 19, 2009, 10:54 PM

My ex-girlfriend is pregnant I plan on paying support in cash,through a verbal aggrement witout a court order.My question is if some time in the future she decides to take me to court will I owe back payments. I live in brooklyn she lives in nassau long Island.

cadillac59 · Jan 19, 2009, 11:33 PM

Gee, I don't know about NY law on this specific point, but some states (like California) limit retroactivity of a child support order to no earlier than the date an action is filed in court in which child support is requested and raised an issue in the case (such as in a divorce or a paternity case [one involving unmarried people with kids]).

nike 1 · Jan 19, 2009, 11:43 PM

Your answer to this question is no, as long as you have this agreement in writing with her and you keep receipts of your payments. Even if she won't sign an agreement with you, you can still get her to give you a receipt which will help you in a support conference. If she won't give you a receipt, give her a money order in which you will have one. Now what the child support office determines what you should be paying and what you do pay can be different in which you will owe the difference upon their determination. The back support you owe will simply be broken down in smaller payments added to your full monthly payments.

stevetcg · Jan 20, 2009, 05:24 AM

Never pay for anything in cash, ever. IF you pay cash get a receipt and keep them pretty much forever.

Nike was on it though... you might be held liable for the difference between court orderd amounts and the amount you actually paid. I want to say the standard is 14% of your gross monthly income but I could be wrong. Check here for a better idea what they state thinks... New York Child Support Calculator - AllLaw.com

Fr_Chuck · Jan 20, 2009, 06:44 AM

Your vebal agreement and paying in cash is not worth the air you used to say it.

She could in a few years take you back to court and get back pay for all of that time most likely.

When the child is born, she gets a custody order and you get in writing a child support order for the proper amount, if not, you are opening yourself up for all sorts of issues down the road.

And in GA it is 17 percent of your income plus normally 1/2 of the medical expenses. Plus some for child care often.

ScottGem · Jan 20, 2009, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by fdnyhunter

My ex-girlfriend is pregnant I plan on paying support in cash,thru a verbal aggrement witout a court order.

My question to you is; ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND??

I'm going to chime in more strongly with the others. If you go ahead with this foolhardy, idiotic idea, you are leaving yourself wide open. At the very least you need a written agreement and you need to pay by check or money order. The agreement needs to be witnessed and/or notarized.

Anything less leaves you unprotected in case of future action. If the mother ever needs to get public aqssistance, the state will go after you for support and they won't care what you have been doing voluntarily and without proof.

JudyKayTee · Jan 20, 2009, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

My question to you is; ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND???

I'm going to chime in more strongly with the others. if you go ahead with this foolhardy, idiotic idea, you are leaving yourself wide open. At the very least you need a written agreement and you need to pay by check or money order. The agreement needs to be witnessed and/or notarized.

Anything less leaves you unprotected in case of future action. If the mother ever needs to get public aqssistance, the state will go after you for support and they won't care what you have been doing voluntarily and without proof.

OP won't be the first or the last in NY to find himself in Court and find his "receipts" (or, even worse, no receipts) held in the nature of helping out, gifts, something extra, not child support itself. It's the old "well, I gave her money for diapers" and the Court decides it's not support.

I have seen written "we agreed on this" agreements set aside by the Courts and the father held responsible for the difference between the written agreement and what NYS has mandated. (Verbal agreements are obviously even worse.)

The mother cannot waive her (and the child's) legal rights. The Judge may grant the Order and the mother may decide she doesn't want the money. She doesn't have to take it or pursue the father - but she cannot waive the right of the child to be supported if it goes that far.

The other thought here is - and "we" see it here all the time - no support agreement, no custody agreement, no visitation agreement and somebody finds a new significant other and the other party gets angry, all communication breaks down and there are legal problems.

To OP - get it ALL decided by the Court. Now.

this8384 · Jan 20, 2009, 02:17 PM

Not sure on NY state law, but I know Wisconsin will not recognize any money that passes between hands as child support; it has to go through the Child Support Agency. If it doesn't, it's not considered support and the parent who pays will be considered behind on payments.

I certainly wouldn't start paying her in cash - no way, no how. All it takes is one bad argument and she's off to court, claiming you never gave her a dime towards support. Let the courts handle it; kind of sucky, but it's in your best interest.

ScottGem · Jan 20, 2009, 07:39 PM

Comments on this post
nike 1 disagrees: My statement was not innacurate at all. I've been there.

First, may I call your attention to the guidelines for using the comments feature found here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedba...ure-24951.html

Retaliting to a negative rating with another negative is not appropriate. In fact this8384's answer was accurate. Your answer may have been accurate for your experience, but its not the way things generally work.

ScottGem · Jan 20, 2009, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by nike 1

Sorry, but you are very wrong. I've already been through all this with child support. I'm giving advice based on experience, not opinions.

On what experience? On your experience with your case or on experience with several court rulngs in different venues? And how was I wrong?

This9394 specifically referred to Wisconson law. Are you famliar with WI law and their courts?

cdad · Jan 20, 2009, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by nike 1

Your answer to this question is no, as long as you have this agreement in writing with her and you keep receipts of your payments. Even if she won't sign an agreement with you, you can still get her to give you a receipt which will help you in a support conference. If she won't give you a receipt, give her a money order in which you will have one. Now what the child support office determines what you should be paying and what you do pay can be different in which you will owe the difference upon their determination. The back support you owe will simply be broken down in smaller payments added to your full monthly payments.

Ok here is why you got a reddie. Let me try to break it down.

1) Your answer to this question is no, as long as you have this agreement in writing with her and you keep receipts of your payments ( this is only true in some states but not all )

2) Even if she won't sign an agreement with you, you can still get her to give you a receipt which will help you in a support conference ( This is a fabrication in ones own mind. It would actually be against the law for someone to force someone else into doing anything. And under these condition the custodial parent at a minimum could claim duress and nothing would be valid in court )

3) Now what the child support office determines what you should be paying and what you do pay can be different in which you will owe the difference upon their determination. The back support you owe will simply be broken down in smaller payments added to your full monthly payments. ( if this is from experience then your case is either very old or you just made up that part. In truth once you go into arrears there is a variety of things they can do including in some states owe interest on the amount. They can intercept tax returns, Take away a drivers or professional license etc, You could even go to jail )

So treating arrears lightly isn't really going to happen in a court room. By federal law they can take up to 65% of gross if you owe arrears. Again times have changed and laws are much tougher. That's why I believe you got a reddie.

this8384 · Jan 21, 2009, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by nike 1

Sorry, but you are very wrong. I've already been through all this with child support. I'm giving advice based on experience, not opinions.

Well, congratulations that your ex(or whatever she is to you right now) hasn't raked you over the coals. But quite frankly, you haven't said anything about your situation going to court. If you can keep it out of the court, more props to you. Odds are it's not going to stay that way. Your ex will get angry about something down the line, march into court and tell them you haven't given her a dime and depending on your state law, you're going to end up paying twice. Trust me, my husband's been there.

And please stop abusing the rating system. It reiterates your lack of knowledge because you only give someone a reddie when your wrong answers are brought to light.

ScottGem · Jan 25, 2009, 01:35 PM

That's not totally accurate. The purpose of notarization is to insure the identity of the person signing. Without notarization you might be able to claim that your signature was forged and you didn't sign the agreement. But you would have to prove that to escape from the contract. That's why I said witnessed AND /OR notarized. This ensures that one part can't claim it wasn't them.

Please note, this is the Family LAW forum. Answers here need to be accurate according to law. From other posts (since removed for TOS violations) you are in PA. Can you cite any law that says a contract must be notarized to be valid?

Fr_Chuck · Jan 25, 2009, 01:47 PM

Two separate issues, ( the one on loan has been deleted)

But a loan can be verbal and inforced, it is done in small claims and is done every day.

The issue here is we are talking about child support, and your vebal or even written can not take the place of state law.

nike 1 · Jan 25, 2009, 02:57 PM

[QUOTE=this8384;1499696]Well, congratulations that your ex(or whatever she is to you right now) hasn't raked you over the coals. But quite frankly, you haven't said anything about your situation going to court. If you can keep it out of the court, more props to you. Odds are it's not going to stay that way. Your ex will get angry about something down the line, march into court and tell them you haven't given her a dime and depending on your state law, you're going to end up paying twice. Trust me, my husband's been there.

Well you are wrong. My ex has raked me across the coals. We have 3 children together. When we split up, I agreed to pay her $350 per week. We put that in writing, and each Friday, I would give her the money and she would give me a signed receipt stating it was for child support. None the less, she thought she could get more if she took me through domestic relations. So she filed and we ended up going to a conference. I brought all the receipts and the agreement and my paystubs for the previous 3 months. She also wanted spousal support. They awarded her that and the child support, but everything I had paid up to that point was considered, my payment amount including spousal ended up being lower than what I was paying. So the difference was figured and I ended up with a credited amount. So it really didn't work out in her favor. That's what she gets for being greedy. Anytime you retain a receipt for payment, it is legal proof of payment as with anything else. The agreement also showed her intent to deal with me directly, but didn't have as much to do with the outcome. Nevertheless, my advice to this guy is to support this child and cover his butt in the process until she pulls him through the system.

JudyKayTee · Jan 25, 2009, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by nike 1

Well you are wrong. My ex has raked me across the coals. We have 3 children together. When we split up, I agreed to pay her $350 per week. We put that in writing, and each Friday, I would give her the money and she would give me a signed receipt stating it was for child support. None the less, she thought she could get more if she took me through domestic relations. So she filed and we ended up going to a conference. I brought all the receipts and the agreement and my paystubs for the previous 3 months. She also wanted spousal support. They awarded her that and the child support, but everything I had paid up to that point was considered, my payment amount including spousal ended up being lower than what I was paying. So the difference was figured and I ended up with a credited amount. So it really didn't work out in her favor. That's what she gets for being greedy. Anytime you retain a receipt for payment, it is legal proof of payment as with anything else. The agreement also showed her intent to deal with me directly, but didn't have as much to do with the outcome. Nevertheless, my advice to this guy is to support this child and cover his butt in the process until she pulls him through the system.

To quote CalifDad - "This is true in some States but not all."

To quote me: "Just because it happened in your case doesn't make it the law."

To very loosely quote this8484 - "some States are not all States."

You have asked for help, I believe, with pasting quotes onto answers. (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forum-...rs-305774.html) The process guarantees that a post won't be somehow edited if quoted as part of another answer. Please either use the process so people realize it's a partial quote OR copy and paste the entire post to which you are replying.

ScottGem · Jan 25, 2009, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by nike 1

Well you are wrong. My ex has raked me across the coals.

First, when you quote a post, the quoted text is placed between two bracketed quote tags. If you mess with those, the quote won't appear properly.

Second, I don't see how This8384 was wrong in any way. Your ex may have TRIED to rake you over the coals, but, by your own account she did not succeed. So it seems to me that she was right and you are the one that is wrong.

Your experience, however, reinfirces the advice that I had others have given the OP.

nike 1 · Jan 25, 2009, 03:52 PM

Scott, first of all she has raked me across the coals by getting spousal support. Even though I ended up paying less, it would be even less hadn't she got that.

Second, my experience reinforces the advice I had originally given.

ScottGem · Jan 25, 2009, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by nike 1

Scott, first of all she has raked me across the coals by getting spousal support. Even though I ended up paying less, it would be even less hadn't she got that.

The phrase raking someone over the coals implies that they made that person suffer greatly. That they got everything they could from that person. By that definition I don't see how that happened.

JudyKayTee · Jan 25, 2009, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

The phrase raking someone over the coals implies that they made that person suffer greatly. That they got everything they could from that person. By that definition I don't see how that happened.

In NYS with 3 children the percentage is 29%. There is also another child if I read the thread referenced below correctly. That child is entitled to 17% after the 29% is subtracted. Support of that child is somewhat convoluted.

OP is paying LESS than $350 a week now to the first set of children and that INCLUDES spousal support.

Very common situation on this thread - the custodial parent never thinks he/she is getting enough; the non-custodial parent thinks he/she is paying too much, often has another child that he/she may or may not be able to afford.

Sad. I'm not sure I could house and feed growing 3 cats and myself on less than $350 a week, or $18,000 a year.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...nd-304705.html