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450donn · Jan 16, 2009, 08:00 AM

I have a pretty clear understanding of the Trinity according to my churches teaching. Please explain your churches understanding of the trinity and how they work together?
I do not want arguments on who is right or wrong, just an explanation that a laymen like me can understand.
Thanks.

JoeT777 · Jan 16, 2009, 10:23 AM

** answer refers to a answer that has been deleted, it contained insulting remarks, and incorrect data***

I think you might have the history a little mixed-up. The Nicene Council of 325 decided the dogma of the Trinity; the unity of the Godhead in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The conflict was with the Arians and the Gnostics. The Catholics took the orthodox (approved) position which is known today as the Nicene Creed. It's my understanding that most of the non-Catholic faiths hold a similar creed. I don't believe it's very controversial except with a few. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Trinity

JoeT

De Maria · Jan 16, 2009, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by JoeT777

I think you might have the history a little mixed-up. The Nicene Council of 325 decided the dogma of the Trinity; the unity of the Godhead in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The conflict was with the Arians and the Gnostics. The Catholics took the orthodox (approved) position which is known today as the Nicene Creed. It’s my understanding that most of the non-Catholic faiths hold a similar creed. I don’t believe it’s very controversial except with a few. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Trinity

JoeT

Exactly right Joe!

adam7gur · Jan 17, 2009, 12:58 AM

God the Father,in the eternity of the past,at some point,wanted to make a being in His image.That could not happen because He has no image, no shape of any kind.He is limittless!So He gives birth to His begotten Son , The Word!It is written John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
To the same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
God's begotten Son, The Word was in the beginning!Whose beginning?The beginning of everything that has to do with us humans!God's begotten Son was with God and the Son of God is also God because nobody gives birth to something different than He is.Humans give birth to humans, dogs give birth to dogs ,God gives birth to God.God's begotten Son,The Word is God!
All things were made by The Word!We humans were made by The Word, in The Word's image,the image of His unseen Father, God!
It is written Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Also... John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So The Word becomes flesh,He becomes the person we all know as Jesus Christ!

The following is from theholyspirit.com website
The Holy Spirit is a part of the Holy Trinity with the Father and Son. In the Old Testament the Hebrew word (ruwach, pronounced roo'-akh) was used when talking about the Spirit. This word literally means WIND, even the wind associated with a BREATHE! In the New Testament the Greek word (pneuma, pronounced pnyoo'-mah) was used which means the BREATHE or a BREEZE! We can literally think of the Holy Spirit as the "Breathe of God!"
1) The Holy Spirit is God, but He is a Person, not a force

2) We cannot focus on the Holy Spirit too much. Why? What is the Holy Spirit's mission? To reveal Jesus. What is Jesus mission…to reveal the Father. What about the Father…to send Jesus and the Holy Spirit so we can come to Him. Perfect Harmony. They never had a crisis management meeting in Heaven. They never tried to sit down and work things out. They never had a power struggle amongst themselves.

3) The Holy Spirit gives gifts for use in ministry and empowers effective ministry

4) The Holy Spirit is a distinct Person within the Godhead, not a force, a thing, or an "it"

ROLCAM · Jan 17, 2009, 03:10 AM

Trinity, is a term used to express the belief that in the one God there are three Divine Persons--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost). The idea is based on various passages in the New Testament. Belief in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was defined by early general councils of the Christian church. The Council of Nicaea in 325 and the Council of Constantinople in 381 declared that the Son is of the same essence as the Father, and that the three Persons are one God. The East and West branches of the church later disagreed as to how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the other Divine Persons. The Eastern Church held that the Son comes from the Father, and that the Spirit comes from the Father through the Son. The Western Church held that the Spirit comes from Father and Son together. A special activity has been ascribed to each of the Persons. The Father creates, the Son became human, and the Spirit makes holy.

artlady · Jan 17, 2009, 03:34 AM

Ask this question to pastor murray he has a TV show and he is great an explaining everything Biblical.
I love this man he really tells it like it is and he will take your questions,

[http://www.shepherdschapel.com/index.cfm
This man is awesome.

ROLCAM · Jan 17, 2009, 03:55 AM

Dear Artlady,

Thank you so much.

Rolcam

Fr_Chuck · Jan 17, 2009, 08:03 AM

The actual relationship is not one that can easily be explained. Even at best it is one where you have to believe on and with faith.

revdrgade · Jan 17, 2009, 06:56 PM

The word "Trinity" is a Theological Construct :a literary device used esoterically by groups to avoid repeating a common concept.

It is not a biblical word and therefore will always be argumnentative in theological discussions. We do know that Jesus was called God in both the OT and NT and Jesus accepted that designation.

There is NO easy way to understand the "Trinity". But then, there is no way to understand God.

The best that you can do is very carefully study the Gospel of John; especially chapter 8.

John records what Jesus speaks of His full authority of God, His full glory of, His full power of God, His full oneness with God before and after His birth in human form, etc. And that the Father would send the Holy Spirit to be with us when Jesus would ascend.

Ps 131:1-2
Y heart is not proud, O Lord,
My eyes are not haughty;
I do not concern myself with great matters
Or things too wonderful for me.
2 But I have stilled and quieted my soul;
Like a weaned child with its mother,
Like a weaned child is my soul within me.
NIV

ROLCAM · Jan 17, 2009, 11:37 PM

I forgot to state that in my church this
Is classed very much a MYSTERY!
There are many mysteries, this would probably be the hardest to fathom out.

Rolcam

arcura · Jan 18, 2009, 12:30 AM

I cannot fully describe the trinity in a way that it can be fully understood for, as has been pointed out, it is a mystery.
But for me this is a good example which gives me some understanding of how three which work together can be one.
We all are one being made up of three. They are body, mind and spirit.
When one ponders that we can fathom how they work together to make a human being what he/she is.
Each has a special function which operates in harmony with the others so that the being can do what is needed or wanted.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

ROLCAM · Jan 18, 2009, 02:58 AM

Fred,

Peace and kindness to you ,always.

Roland.

arcura · Jan 18, 2009, 07:56 PM

Much Thanks Roland,
I'm glad to see you here.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

450donn · Jan 19, 2009, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

I cannot fully describe the trinity in a way that it can be fully understood for, as has been pointed out, it is a mystery.
But for me this is a good example which gives me some understanding of how three which work together can be one.
We all are one being made up of three. They are body, mind and spirit.
When one ponders that we can fathom how they work together to make a human being what he/she is.
Each has a special function which operates in harmony with the others so that the being can do what is needed or wanted.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,
You lost me when you said that this is a mystery?
How can it be a mystery?
Reading the word of God it is fairly clearly pointed out how the trinity works. How the Holy Spirit is in our lives to help and guide us. Is it your premise that the Holy Spirit is not here with us and working overtime sometimes to guide and teach us? Please explain further.

ROLCAM · Jan 19, 2009, 03:43 PM

Definition of Mystery:-

A religious conception or doctrine that human reason cannot understand.
Ex. Father Deacy preached on the mystery of the Trinity (New York Times).

arcura · Jan 19, 2009, 07:24 PM

450donn,
The trinity is so complex that it can not be FULLY understood that is why it is called a mystery.
Each person in the being of the trinity God has separate works to perform and does so with the cooperation of the others.
Even so each one is fully God and still works in conjunction with the full cooperation of the others.
How the three manage that is the mystery.
A person can pray to each one of them individually for some purpose such as praying to the Holy Spirit for inspiration and understanding Or to The Son for aid in helping spread the good news of the Gospel or to the Father for help on a creative project of some sort OR praying just to God and that prayer is then to all three.
I hope that helps.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

arcura · Jan 19, 2009, 07:40 PM

ROLCAM,
Yup, that's correct.
We humans can not even expect to fully understand God who is infinite, eternal, and perfect in all attributes.
We can not even fully understand what infinity, eternity, and true perfection is.
Please and kindness,
Fred

450donn · Jan 19, 2009, 07:57 PM

Is not the holy Spirit the same one sent by Jesus after his assention called the helper? Is this not the same holy spirit that is with each of us to help and guide us on our everyday walk? Is this not the same holy Spirit that convicts us when we make mistakes?
There is passage after passage describing the holy Spirit and his works within us here on earth. How is this such a mystery?

arcura · Jan 19, 2009, 10:13 PM

450donn,
Please reread what I said.
It is not just the Holy Spirit.
The thread's topic is FULLY understanding ALL about the TRINITY.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
P

Akoue · Jan 23, 2009, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

Is not the holy Spirit the same one sent by Jesus after his assention called the helper? Is this not the same holy spirit that is with each of us to help and guide us on our everyday walk? Is this not the same holy Spirit that convicts us when we make mistakes?
There is passage after passage describing the holy Spirit and his works within us here on earth. How is this such a mystery?

That's fine, but it doesn't speak to the question. Does the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father and the Son, or just from the Son? Are the three persons of the Trinity a single substance, or aren't they? If they are, by virtue of what are they distinct persons? If they aren't, then how can they be one God? When the Son suffered on the cross, did the Father suffer too? Did the Son proceed from the Father before the Spirit did, or at the same time? If the Son proceeded before the Spirit, does this mean that the Son and the Spirit are not co-eternal?

Yeah, I'd say the Trinity is a mystery. These aren't easy questions to answer.