[chuff]

Whats the deal Chuff did I do something to piss you off.

Not that I need to answer your smart remark but has it ever crossed your mind that it is possible for a couple not to have a lot of sex but the sex they do have is great. It can happen you know.

If you read my thread about the loss in her sex drive I state that we have sex about once a week.

Do you get your jollies looking for things to badger people that are looking for help.

Do me a favor if you are not going to be helpful then don't answer my questions please.

So of all I wrote, this it what you respond to.

I wasnt' badgering you, that's what your wife does. I was attempting to explain to you that if you demonstrated some value for yourself, maybe your wife would look at you as more of the man of the household then the puppy who waits for her all the time. Before you answer that with some smark remark of your own why don't you ask if I'm right. You might be surprised by the answer. I bet she tells you something like she wants you to take charge or lead the household. Your role has been given to her by your actions. That's not an insult, but you wait and wait and do whatever she wants. I can't get into a 9 year marriage and know the ins and outs, but from what you write, she doesn't see much in you. I happen to think she can and should. You've given you love to her, it's her time to step up and give some back. It's not up to me to demonstrate it to her, it's up to you. Women want a man to lead them and that is what I'm suggesting you do. Not be an jerk about, but set some guidelines and hold her to them.

[simoneaugie]

DSM521, Chuff did an excellent job of analyzing your post. The comment about what prior posts have revealed about your sex life is a continuation of that analysis, sort of. We can only go on what is written and our own conclusions which limits helpfulness at times.

Anyway, how do you get past this thought of infidelity? Quit thinking about it. If you want to go forward, quit looking back. Just stop.

What I see, being someone who has behaved in very similar ways, is a problem with alcohol. Her irresponsible behavior is tied intimately with booze. So, stop rethinking the event and address the cause.

[coolbrezzeb]

Have she stayed out late like this before without answering yourphone call.I had a situation similar to yours.it don't take long or too muchof nothingto pick up the phone or text you... there is noway in the hell you woman phone should have been off while with another guy.and that is very inresponsible.and just because her friend uses her phone.tht might not have beenthe case that night.you need to get a understanding with her.to let you know where her where abouts is and vice versia..

[DSM521]

I read all of that, and I have to ask I really don't understand what your looking for? Are you looking for confimation that she cheated? Are you looking for ideas to get her to admit it? Are you looking for ways to gain her trust? Are you looking for ways to forget about what may have happened?

With all due respect, The first thing that jumped out at me was she wears the pants in this family. She is in complete control of this relationship and leads you instead you leading her.

That has to change....and after 9 years it will be really easy or really hard. But she gets away with anything and everything and you allow it. There are no limits and this goes back to before you were married..

I understand how it may look for my post. But I am the leader of my household. I am the man of the house and she is fully aware of that. Now with that being said I am not the kind of man that rules with an iron fist. I don't yell or get out of my head angry. I am a very calm person.

I will agree that when we first started dating that I was exactly how you described me. She could get away with murder and I would come back for more.

Prior to us getting married we were apart for a few years. I was in a relationship during this time and I learned to stand up for myself and to be a man. So no it is not that way any more. She knows I will not put up with any BS, and if she tries to pull any there will be hell to pay.

But this was an isolated event. She was never done anything like this before in our marriage. It was so out of character for her. She is not much of a drinker or partier.

I hate to tell you this, but you realize that you were not your wife's first choice. She would keep you around in case the others never worked out....which they apparently did not. But you were always plan B. So even before the marriage she lost respect for you because you never stood up for yourself. You were never in control enough to put a stop this..

Was I my wife's first choice? I don't know and I am very certain that you don't either. So to make a statement like that is a little off putting. Listen I want to thank you for taking the time to break down my post the way you did. You put a lot of time and effort into it. But I don't see why you feel the need to make statements like this, and other that are just down rite rude.

The only thing I am sure of is at the age of 16, 17, and 18 she probably had no idea of what she wanted. She very clearly did not handle these situations the best way but I can give her a bit of a pass for that. She was just a kid. I hope my ex-girlfriends don't still hold a grudge toward me for the way I ended some of our relationships.

So does that mean I was not her first choice, or dose that mean she was young and needed time to experience life and make her own choice. She says I am the man she wanted to be with. And if I was not she would not be with me. In short she chose me. I find it hard to believe she was sitting around one day and she just got tired of dating and said to herself well what the hell. I guess I will just marry him. I have a lot of options but I will settle for someone that is my plan B.

How you word that caught my attention. You told her to hurry because you missed her, but that just gives her permission to take her time because again, she knows no matter what she does you'll always be right there waiting. To me you should have text her back something like, "don't be later then 12:30" or "okay but make it quick." Your message to her reads like "do whatever you want, I'm just so head over heels in love that I'll wait right here for you like a good boy." and mine reads allows her to grab a bite with friends but also gives her direction.

Now this is one throw away line, but the point is I'm guessing you say things like this all the time, and women want a leader. They do not want, "I'm waiting for you and miss you and love you and can't wait to see you and I just want to hold you and when you get home you'll we'll be together and I just love you so much I can't stand it.

Could I have worded that better sure. But I guess I did not feel the need to give her a curfew. It never crossed my mind that she would stay out all night. She never had before. I said I missed her because like I said she was working doubles I I was also very busy with my job at the time. We did not get a chance to see each other that much that week. I you I missed her.

Cheating or not, what the hell is wrong with this woman? She has four kids at home and has no care in the world for herself or them to not either check in or keep her cell phone on? She is so irresponsible that she allows this to happen? I'm not saying the mother of 4 shouldn't have a night to enjoy herself with friends, but I've never heard of a mother leave their children without a way to get in contact. What on earth is wrong with her? Forget about you, what kind of mother is this? Then as we learn later, they have to be subjected to driving up and seeing her drunk a$$ in a car with another man. Quite the holiday season for the four young ones. As you learned while dating, she thinks about herself an awful lot, but I'm pretty sure most mothers usually think about their children and she subjected all 4 of them to this night. That is 100% her fault, all she had to do was speak up and say where she was going or leave her phone on. What a complete disaster.

Can't disagree much with this statement. This is the issue. No excuse for this kind of stuff at all. Her actions were all you stated. And of course this was not a good piece of parenting. How ever I will say she is a fantastic mom. This night was an exception. That is way I am struggling with it so much. She always checks on the kids when she is away from them, always puts them way before herself. She is a great mother, if this were a pattern I would question her mothering skills. But it is not a pattern. She is a great mom.

So you suspected something was going on since you included whoever she was with.

As an added bonus, she was caught lying.

No I included "whoever you are with because" her or like I said whoever she was with male or female needed to let me know what was going on.

Wow that's something. She won't even look at you when you wake all the kids up and chase her down at 4 am in a strange car with a strange guy. This woman has no respect for you at all.

Yep, another good question. This still bothers me a lot. I have asked her about it and she says she did not realize it was me that walked up to the car. Sounds like a bunch of BS to me, and she knows I think it is. But she was drunk so I guess it is possible.

I don't believe it and she knows that.

I don't know, I've never been in this situation, but it seems odd that you show up to see your wife in another car with another guy and her first response is do just stay in the and your response is to do wait patiently outside until HE finally rolls down the window.

As I play this out in my head, I just think I'd be opening the door myself and if it was locked, demanding it be unlocked or taking action to get in. Now I know that's illegal to break into someone else's car, but I'm not stealing it....I'm trying to get my wife out. Maybe I wouldn't actually, I don't know, it just seems like you did what you always do, wait patiently no matter the situation because you'll always put up with it, and she knows it so she doesn't, even in this situation, so much as turn to acknowledge you.

Well I had to be on my best behavior because there were a couple cops just down the street watching what was going on. So I was not about to make a big scene.

For what reason?

Is this a joke? Your wife has treated you like second fiddle for over 9 years and you want to blame a guy in a car?

On this night alone, you caught her lying several times, she abandoned your children, she didn't respect you enough to tell you where she was at, and she doesn't even acknowledge you when you show up, and you start having words with HIM.

Have you ever had words with HER? I don't mean telling her to hurry up cause you miss her, or going to a councelor to talk about your feelings. I mean flat out put her in her place and tell her what the rules of this relationship are and if she can't follow them, then you have and will demonstrate through your own actions that her treatment of you will not be tolerated? Demonstrate to her that you have one life and she is lucky enough to spend it with you, and not you waiting around for her? The problem as I have read is, she can do whatever she wants and you just put up with it.

All the love and understanding you give her and she doesn't give anything like that back to you. Can you honestly say this a fair relationship?.

No this is not a joke. Of course I had a few words with him. And yes I had more than a few words for my wife as well. We got in my car and she heard what I had to say. I put her in her place. And we both understand what the rules of the relationship are.

You are mistaken. She cannot do what ever she wants and just get away with it. She understands very clearly that there are consequence's for her actions.

Yes I can honestly say this is a fair relationship.


You know I can't say. It looks bad, but at the same time I've given drunk married women a ride home before too. But if there husband would come out, I would unlock the door and explain I was giving a ride, which didn't happen here. I'd probably have to give the benefit of the doubt... since there is no real proof.

I've got no children. But if I had four and I left the restaurant to go to my friend Jessica's house, I'd call my spouse or who ever was watching them to let them know that.

Your right. This is my point as well. She never forgets to tell me what is going on. She has never lost contact with me in the past. This is the first time.

What BS. You sent her several texts so they all would have popped up. Granted this is on my cell phone, but when it's on silent, a message is comes up telling me I have missed x number of calls. I don't know her phone, but she's probably got something like that too.

Ya her phone is like yours. But her phone was giving her trouble and would just turn its self off. I know that to be true. I had been using it and had it happened to me.

However that does not mean she should loose track of time and forget to check in. Like I told her I don't believe that at some point in the night you did not think that it was getting a little late. Or why she did not tell me she was leaving the bar and going to Jessica's house.

So he was the only one sober but instead of taking her home, he took her back to her car.....where she was going to apparently drive drunk and attempt to kill someone else. Great woman there. As someone who has witnessed a drunk driver cause an accident with serious injuries causing paralysis to a 14 year old boy, can you tell her to F-off for me. Unlike you I don't give a pass for attempted murder.

See this is what I'm talking about. You go to counceling I'd suggest putting her in her place. I shouldn't have to explain to a 16 year old that you don't drive drunk, but I sure as hell should never have to explain to a mother of 4 that you don't drive drunk. But, apparently this woman is so stupd, that you actually do have to explain it to her. That would be the first thing I would have done. If she didn't listen then she doesn't get to drive. If she doesn't listen, take her off the insurance. Why you want to take the fall time and again for this behavior is something I'd like you think long and hard about.

Why if she was so drunk wouldn't she just call you to come pick her up?[/QUOTE]

We live about 40min, from her work. So that is why he gave her a ride to her car. She said he offered to diver her home. She said her plan was to call me and have me pick her up at her car. So my questions was why not have me pick you up at Jessica's and not you car. She said you know where I work, and you don't know where Jessica lives so I thought it would be easier to have you pick me up at my car.

Not sure if I believe all that or not. I hope that is the case. If not she does not get a free pass from me to drive drunk.

Finally! I was mad when she wanted to cause death to other people. For you she got a pass on lying, getting the kids up at 4 am, not telling you where she was, not responding to you, but finally it took text messages.

She just keeps pushing you around and around.



So you have no proof.

No she did not get a pass on everything else. We had it out, and I layied it all on the line to her. The text was just another piece of the puzzle. Once I read those We had it out again and she had more explaining to do. I had to put her in her place as you put it:D


I wouldn't trust her either. My question is why did you trust her to begin with? She always took advantage of you, and in times when she should take advantage of you, like calling for a ride when she's drunk she doesn't.

This still brings me back to my original question. What advice are you looking for? You can't just trust someone, so I don't know that we can offer you that, and she has to earn your trust which to be honest, she doesn't seem like she's really wanting to do. Maybe that's why this has taken so long. You probably want her to behave in a certain way, but your behavior has always taught her that she can do what she wants and you'll be there. Now, this is eating you up inside and you can't even tell her. So once again, she get's a free pass while you suffer. This isn't a fair relationship. She's not fair to you. You have expectations of her, and you can verbalize them, but until you start to back them up with actions and give her consquences for her actions this is the way it always be. She leads the relationship, and you have to lead it and it has to be with more then words it has to be with actions.

I was looking for advise on how to stop dwelling on it. I said that in my first paragraph.

[DSM521]

Communication, honesty and counseling are definitely what you need.

I certainly don't blame you for being upset. Was this a one-time only event, or has she disappeared before?

All I can is, waking up in the middle of the night and she is not there and no phone call, that's just wrong. You were worried and had to wake up the kids to go find her.

Let's assume she did cheat on you. Will counseling help? Can you rebuild the trust? Are you willing to try? Only time can answer these questions.

If her story is true, it was still extremely inconsiderate and dangerous.

Did she give any reasons why she wanted to stay out all night after work in the first place?

Either way, there will be work involved--on both your parts--to save your marriage, which is what I assume you want to do.

Understanding and forgiveness, honest communication, and some time alone, away from work and kids are my suggestions.

Do not give up on the counseling. If you are not satisfied with the amount of counseling, try to go more often or if it's the counselor, look for a new one, but you need one, for objective advice and to teach you to communicate the heart of the issues.

Thanks Survivor for your thoughts.

Yes this was a one time event. She has never disappeared before. If she did cheat on me I would stay. If anything like this happens again I am gone. I can understand a mistake. But I will not condone a pattern of this behavior. I don't want our kids to grow up in that kind of environment.

She has worked VERY VERY hard to regain my trust. She was open to the counseling, and it was her idea.

The only reason she gave was that she had been working so many doubles in a row and she just wanted to go and blow off some steam. She said she did not intend to get that drunk and stay out that long. I just don't know if I believe that.

The reason I think it was a one night stand is because she had told me this guy had been flirting with her for a couple months. She had a break from work that day at about 3:00pm. They had sent a few text back and forth then. It was all about him getting his shift covered that night. She originally told me it was her friend that has a crush on him that was textng him. I had my sister find out that her friend was not at work at that time so I knew she was lying to me. She said she lied because she knew I would not believe that the text were innocent. I told her that if she would not lie then I would believe her.

I told her I don't understand why he would ask you to cover his shift because he knows she works on Friday nights (they have worked Friday nights together for months). She said they were trying to do some kind of double switch.

After reading all the text I found out he was a closer and got off later than she and her friends did. That night he sent text to her phone asking if she would wait for him to get off. She of course says that was her friend and him talking and not her.

So to me it looks like he had been flirting for a while, she was flattered and wanted him, he tried to get his shift covered but could not. She went out with friends tell he got off, then went to his house. I don't know for sure but she lied about to many things for me to think it is all innocent.

[DSM521]

DSM521, Chuff did an excellent job of analyzing your post. The comment about what prior posts have revealed about your sex life is a continuation of that analysis, sort of. We can only go on what is written and our own conclusions which limits helpfulness at times.

Anyway, how do you get past this thought of infidelity? Quit thinking about it. If you want to go forward, quit looking back. Just stop.

What I see, being someone who has behaved in very similar ways, is a problem with alcohol. Her irresponsible behavior is tied intimately with booze. So, stop rethinking the event and address the cause.

Simoneaugie, I agree Chuff did a great job breaking down my post. I thanked him for the time and effort he put into doing so. He did not have to do that and I am grateful he did.

The only thing I took exception to was the way he worded some of his responses. To me they were more like assumptions rather than fact.

I really did not see the need to bring up the post about my sex life. If he felt a need to question me he could simply just ask.

Perhaps I am a bit to sensitive, but his second post did nothing to answer my question.

[Survivor07]

I don't think there is a good clear-cut answer to how to stop dwelling on it.

Fact is you don't know what happened that night because it was bazaar and so are all the excuses.

If you can't drop it, bring it up again in counseling. Be honest that you can't get past the feeling that you've been lied to about that night and that you need help in doing that.

If you want to drop it and never mention it again, then you'll have to live with not knowing and being distrustful of your wife.

By the way, it's good you didn't lose your cool at the car that night, though, and not just because cops were watching--Your Kids Were Watching.

I know you didn't ask opinions, but I have one: I don't believe she was going to call you when she got to the car. Why not call you from the friend's house and tell you to meet her at the car? What was she going to do? Wait that whole time alone in her car, drunk, until you got there? I think she was going to drive home, and then you would have never known there was "that guy" there. Also, these are modern times. If her phone wasn't working properly, I'm sure she had access to someone else's phone. She got carried away with friends, got drunk and basically didn't stop to think about you at all.

It's going to take time and work to get over this.

[DSM521]

I know you didn't ask opinions, but I have one: I don't believe she was going to call you when she got to the car. Why not call you from the friend's house and tell you to meet her at the car? What was she going to do? Wait that whole time alone in her car, drunk, until you got there? I think she was going to drive home, and then you would have never known there was "that guy" there. Also, these are modern times. If her phone wasn't working properly, I'm sure she had access to someone else's phone. She got carried away with friends, got drunk and basically didn't stop to think about you at all.

It's going to take time and work to get over this.

I don't mind opinions at all. After all that is what I am doing is asking people for their opinions in an answer form. Its just the way people state their opinion. Yours was well thought out, you did not call anyone names, well in short it was classy.

I think she would have drove home that night as well. She told me she did not call me from her friends house because I had never been there and she thought it would be easier for me just to meet her at her work were she left her car.

She told me when she left the bar her friend Jessica gave her a ride to her house. When I got to her work her car was right in front.

Your right, if her phone was not working she could have used someone else's or used a land line. These are all things I have told her. I told her there was no excuse for her not contacting me. I told her a light should have went off in her mind when she left the bar going to Jessica's house to call me and let me know what she was doing. She said she just was not thinking. Can't say I buy it.

Thanks again for your advise.

[artlady]

Whats the deal Chuff did I do something to piss you off.

Not that I need to answer your smart remark but has it ever crossed your mind that it is possible for a couple not to have a lot of sex but the sex they do have is great. It can happen you know.

If you read my thread about the loss in her sex drive I state that we have sex about once a week.

Do you get your jollies looking for things to badger people that are looking for help.

Do me a favor if you are not going to be helpful then don't answer my questions please.

What are you talking about? This man gave you the benefit of his OBJECTIVE intelligence and after all he wrote and said you pick out one silly little statement that affects your ego.
C'mon ,concentrate on what's important and read the entire post.

[liz28]

I tend to agree with Chuff an he did a great job on breaking things down. After all he is the Chuffmaster.

The only thing I can add even you forgive or you don't. I know first hand forgiving isn't easy and is positive these thoughts were express through counseling but it is up to you.

[chuff]

First, let me say I'm glad you read what I wrote and responded to it. I think as you do, and responded hopefully some of the anger died down and you saw some of my points. Believe me, I may be blunt, but I have only the best of intentions in mind. I wouldn't be wasting anybodies time here if I didn't.

I understand how it may look for my post. But I am the leader of my household. I am the man of the house and she is fully aware of that. Now with that being said I am not the kind of man that rules with an iron fist. I don't yell or get out of my head angry. I am a very calm person.

... and you should be. I agree with you to be calm and not be a jerk about things. Guys like that force their "love" on to women and then it becomes a false love. It's just love because she's afraid of him. That is why I was suggesting you demonstrate value through actions. Women, being emotional tend to watch how a guy behaves and try to test him. Like I said somewhere I can't judge a 9 year marriage on day to day things, I'm just following what you wrote, and what you wrote showed a pattern of behavior where she constantly made you number 2. It always appears you are going to her, you are waiting on her, etc. I'm suggesting you flip that around or at the very least don't hold on to her every word and follow her or wait for her like a puppy would. That's not an insult, just a demonstration of something we can both relate to.

I will agree that when we first started dating that I was exactly how you described me. She could get away with murder and I would come back for more.

I'm a recovering nice guy myself, I know you find that hard to believe.

Prior to us getting married we were apart for a few years. I was in a relationship during this time and I learned to stand up for myself and to be a man. So no it is not that way any more. She knows I will not put up with any BS, and if she tries to pull any there will be hell to pay.

Either you didn't say you were apart for a few years or I missed that. I'm not sure if I mean give her hell to pay, I just mean don't tolerate it. I mean that women judge men by actions, where as we just tend to judge them by words. Obviously we judge by actions as well, but women are better at it, and put value in the action where we put value in the words, and less in the action.

My ultimate point was, you don't have to get mad about this stuff, in fact I don't see why you should lose your temper at because of her actions. I just think you should explain a certain household rule, such as "don't drive drunk. If you do, I'm not paying putting my name on your insurance, you'll have to get your own." Now I realize it was one time, but I'm just using what you have written about. You don't need to get upset. You just tell her the deal, and she can make the choice. If she doesn't follow a common sense, non over-bearing, fair rule of the house you calmly and without anger do something about it. You lead, you don't get mad, and she knows you are in charge of your emotions and can control a situation. You can change out the situation, but how you deal with it is what has to remain constant.

But this was an isolated event. She was never done anything like this before in our marriage. It was so out of character for her. She is not much of a drinker or partier.

You know, I can't fault a wife and mother of four who works doubles for needing a break or an escape from the home. I just don't like the way she went about it... which I take it you agree with. But I guess this goes right back to the trust issue that you asked about. If you are saying this was an isolated event, you have no real proof of anything actually happening, I think you need to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Was I my wifes first choice? I don't know and I am very certain that you don't either.

You got me there. I realize how that reads, but my point was that she felt like she could always use you as plan B because you would come back for more no matter what she did.

To be honest, you could also turn that around and say you won because in the end you got the prize. Dude, your in a 9 year marriage, what happened 9 years ago doesn't matter, other then to demonstrate a behavior trait that jumped out at me.

So to make a statement like that is a little off putting. Listen I want to thank you for taking the time to break down my post the way you did. You put a lot of time and effort into it. But I don't see why you feel the need to make statements like this, and other that are just down rite rude.

Well I'll tell you why. If I said the usual stuff you expect to hear like, "just talk to her and it will get better" or "have a romantic dinner and tell her how you much you love her" that doesn't address the problem and it's not a solution. It's a BS answer for a real problem by people who have never studied how relationships work. I assume you didn't come here for BS and I assume you want something different then what your marriage counselor is telling you. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to be honest. In my opinion, I’m doing you and for that matter your wife a disservice if I give you the traditional throw away garbage lines that you expect to hear.

The only thing I am sure of is at the age of 16, 17, and 18 she probably had no idea of what she wanted.

I’ll agree with you there too.

She very clearly did not handle these situations the best way but I can give her a bit of a pass for that. She was just a kid. I hope my ex-girlfriends don't still hold a grudge toward me for the way I ended some of our relationships.

I’m not suggesting you hold a grudge. I’m just suggesting you see a behavior pattern that I picked up on.

So does that mean I was not her first choice, or dose that mean she was young and needed time to experience life and make her own choice. She says I am the man she wanted to be with. And if I was not she would not be with me. In short she chose me. I find it hard to believe she was sitting around one day and she just got tired of dating and said to herself well what the hell. I guess I will just marry him. I have a lot of options but I will settle for someone that is my plan B.

Okay dude, I’m going to give you a very rare apology. I am sorry for the way I worded that, and my goal was not to put you in distress but point out what I saw as a unfair treatment of someone who cared too much for her and not enough for himself. My point, was that she kept dumping you and you kept waiting for her to come back, so to her you were a plan B. I’d be lying to you if I said I was never a plan B because I have been. It’s not an insult it’s a reality (talking about myself) so I sure don’t look down on you for it.

From a psychological point of view that demonstrated she was in charge of the relationship, even when there was no relationship. Fast forward to today and from what you wrote that psychological issue seems to be current. I said in my original post it would be either really hard or really easy to change. What I meant by that is, you have to start being aware of how you are acting around her in the sense that if she calls you, respond in a calm, positive, but assertive manner. You have to demonstrate you are in charge of this relationship, because women like leaders who take charge.

Could I have worded that better sure. But I guess I did not feel the need to give her a curfew. It never crossed my mind that she would stay out all night. She never had before. I said I missed her because like I said she was working doubles I I was also very busy with my job at the time. We did not get a chance to see each other that much that week. I ya I missed her.

In my original message I recognized it was a throw away line. One throw away line doesn’t mean anything, but again the point was not what you said, but how you could have said it by demonstrating in a calm manner that you were in control. I didn’t say to tell her “get your butt home now.” That’s love by force, which is not love at all.

One throw away line doesn’t mean anything, but the culmination of lines like that is something women pick up on, and it’s something you have the ability to correct without getting upset if you just pay attention to how you say things to her.

Can't disagree much with this statement. This is the issue. No excuse for this kind of stuff at all. Her actions were all you stated. And of course this was not a good piece of parenting. How ever I will say she is a fantastic mom. This night was an exception. That is way I am struggling with it so much. She always checks on the kids when she is away from them, always puts them way before herself. She is a great mother, if this were a pattern I would question her mothering skills. But it is not a pattern. She is a great mom.

I’ll have to go back and reread what I wrote but I don’t think I ever said anything negative about her being a mother. I think I said the situation was a disaster, especially for the kids.

Yep, another good question. This still bothers me a lot. I have asked her about it and she says she did not realize it was me that walked up to the car. Sounds like a bunch of BS to me, and she knows I think it is. But she was drunk so I guess it is possible.

I don't believe it and she knows that.

I don’t believe her either. Even if she didn’t the driver would have known and said something. But if your in a car at 4 am in a parking lot, drunk or not, and someone comes up to the door you are going to look.

Well I had to be on my best behavior because there were a couple cops just down the street watching what was going on. So I was not about to make a big scene.

I understand, as I answer questions like this I try to put myself in the environment, and I think if you reread what I wrote I even went back and forth in my own mind as to what I’d do.

No this is not a joke. Of course I had a few words with him. And yes I had more than a few words for my wife as well. We got in my car and and she heard what I had to say. I put her in her place. And we both understand what the rules of the relationship are.

DSM, read your OP. I think if your fair, you’ll see that it reads like you were blaming him while giving her a pass. I wasn’t there, I was just going off what you wrote. From what we know, we have to assume he was just giving her a ride and given the fact she wouldn’t acknowledge you, I think it’s fair for me to ask why he was being blamed when it appeared for the OP she got a pass on her behavior.

You are mistaken. She cannot do what ever she wants and just get away with it. She understands very clearly that there are consequence's for her actions.

Yes I can honestly say this is a fair relationship.

When I asked that, I meant do you believe this relationship is fair to you?

Your right. This is my point as well. She never forgets to tell me what is going on. She has never lost contact with me in the past. This is the first time.

Then you have to give her the benefit of the doubt. You have to say to yourself, I’ve got 9 years invested with this woman and she made a bunch of stupid decisions in a matter of hours, but I can’t let that distract me from the previous 9 years.

Ya her phone is like yours. But her phone was giving her trouble and would just turn its self off. I know that to be true. I had been using it and had it happened to me.

However that does not mean she should loose track of time and forget to check in. Like I told her I don't believe that at some point in the night you did not think that it was getting a little late. Or why she did not tell me she was leaving the bar and going to Jessica's house.

Exactly.

We live about 40min, from her work. So that is why he gave her a ride to her car. She said he offered to diver her home. She said her plan was to call me and have me pick her up at her car. So my questions was why not have me pick you up at Jessica's and not you car. She said you know where I work, and you don't know where Jessica lives so I thought it would be easier to have you pick me up at my car.

Not sure if I believe all that or not. I hope that is the case. If not she does not get a free pass from me to drive drunk.

Nor should she. Your children have too much to lose. What I don’t get though, is this is the thing she should be using you for, and she didn’t.

No she did not get a pass on everything else. We had it out, and I layied it all on the line to her. The text was just another piece of the puzzle. Once I read those We had it out again and she had more explaining to do. I had to put her in her place as you put it:D

I’m glad to hear it. Again, I think if your fair and you read the OP as I read it, it comes off like she can do whatever she wants and get away with. So I’m happy you didn’t let her.

I was looking for advise on how to stop dwelling on it. I said that in my first paragraph.

I have an idea that’s a little strange. Have you ever asked the guy? I don’t know if he’d give you an honest answer or not, and whatever he said it might be hard to believe. But it might help give you some closure.

As to stop dwelling on the night, every time it comes into your mind try to distract yourself by either getting up and moving, or taking a deep breathe. If it starts to overtake your mind, tell yourself, “I can’t control the past, just this moment and at this time I’m only accepting positive thoughts.” Give yourself permission to be upset, but do it for 20 minutes at one time. When you start to get mad, tell yourself this can wait until the evening between 7 and 7:20. That way it recognizes the anger but also holds it off until a later. This situation combined with 4 kids has to be stressful, if you can work time into your day I strongly recommend exercising. When I’m stressed about something I get on an elliptical machine and just push myself as a hard as I can. Not only do I forget about my problems I feel better afterwards.

[chuff]

I really did not see the need to bring up the post about my sex life. if he felt a need to question me he could simply just ask.

Perhaps I am a bit to sensitive, but his second post did nothing to answer my question.

I was not bringing up your sex life. I was bringing up that you were all over the place in your answers, which was noted before I posted that. I understand your anger, but I'm not the bad guy here. Nothing wrong with being sensitive, but at the same time you are using me as an easy target because I'm blunt, for anger you've been holding in for 5 months.

[LivingtheLifeinFLA]

She knows I will not put up with any BS, and if she tries to pull any there will be hell to pay.

Yeah right, is she still living in the house or at her Mother's?

[DSM521]

Hey Chuff no hard feelings hear. And once again thanks for taking the time to go so in depth in my situation. I guess we just have different styles of how we answer questions. Not that one is right or wrong just different.

To answer some of your questions no I have never talked to the guy. I have thought about it but I just don't know how that would turn out. I don't have his number and it might be a little creepy for me to wait for him to show up to work and talk to him before he goes in. He is really young and I don't know if I could believe anything he tells me. I know if when I was 23 or 24 and in his situation I probably tell the guy any thing I could to keep myself out of trouble.

Sense this is a one time incident I really think it would be a bad idea for me to keep dragging it on, and talking to him I feel would be dragging it on. But not a bad idea, and I had thought about it myself.


And yes I can completely understand were you could get the idea from reading my post that I let her walk on me. You know it is hard sitting down to wright something like that. You wonder what you should put in what you should leave out. What things you think that people might just pick up on. I tried just to focus on her actions and as little as possible on mine. Not that I'm ashamed of how I acted but just because I did not want the post to go on for to long. But no I am not a door mat, I am the leader of my household in every meaning of the term. Not to be macho but just to answer your question. She knows what is acceptable and what is not. How a married woman of four children should act, and how I expect to act. She is 30 and is a very responsible person. She stays at home with the kids when I am at work. Goes to school on line, and works as a waitress in the evenings when I get home from work.

The hardest thing is just thinking your wife had a affair and can't even tell you the truth about it. It is a tough situation. But like she says she can't admit to something that never happened. I just feel like I caught her in so many lies, that its hard to give her the benefit of the doubt. I feel like I did everything but catch her in his bed.

As far as being all over the place with my posts. I did not really see it that way. But I guess that is because I was the one asking the questions. You know I think a lot of my problem is her loss of sex drive. It happened after the birth of our first child. Being young it took us some time to come together and finally get the issue out on the table. But after so many years of her having almost no drive it really plays games with your head. She has had some other medical issues she has to get taken care of before she can get the sex drive thing taken care of. But its just a hard thing to deal with. Then when something like this happens you start to feel like you were betrayed, like your wife is attracted to everyone but you. Its really hard to describe. But the sex we have is usually great.

I can see how it looks with my posts. But how many people look at the entire body of posts. I just ask questions that are effecting my life at the time. I don't think how the subject and timing will cause a issue. I know it all ties in to one big subject 'my life" but not every post is connected.

Any how, I am sorry if I offended you or one of you many fans its clear you have:) But I guess its just a little bit of that big dog coming through you did not know was there. I am truly grateful you have given me and my subject so much time.

[Gemini54]

It's been interesting to read the dialogue between DSM and Chuff. I think that it does highlight the assumptions that we as the readers can make about questions asked, and the conclusions that we draw when we only have a snapshot of the situation.
(I know I've done the same thing in a previous post!)

Having said that, what strikes me DMS, is that there are a couple of underlying issues in this dilemma that you're facing.

TRUST - I think that until you know for a fact otherwise, you should trust what your wife has told you. Yes, she behaved madly, and on the surface it looks bad. But, none of us are perfect. If you genuinely want to continue with your marriage, then maybe you should see her behaviour as a momentary moment of madness. Hell, she's had 4 kids, she works, she probably never has a 'blow out'. You could try giving her the benefit of the doubt and you may eventually hear what really happened.

SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP - Clearly this is an issue for you, and is part of the cause of your insecurity regarding this issue. Again, she's had 4 kids, she works - I bet she's bone tired most of the time being a wife and mother. It may be that she doesn't feel attractive and desirable. Perhaps this young man flirted with her and she felt different for a few hours.
Perhaps you could do the same - ask someone to look after the kids and go away for a weekend. Make sure that you spend time together during the week - without the kids, or when they are in bed. Try to be loving and affectionate without expectation of any return. Help around the house. (I'm sure you already know all of this.) The thing is, to do it. Make her your priority and don't worry (too much) about the sex.

NOT THINKING - When you find yourself thinking, or obsessing about what has happened - Did she? Didn't she? Can I trust her? - say to yourself, 'Stop! This thought does not serve me!' Be conscious of what your thought are and interrupt them. You already know you don't want to think these thought, they only disturb and distress you - so tell yourself to stop! each time your mind starts up again.

COUNSELLING - Continue with this, and if you can, speak to your counsellor alone about your feelings and concerns.

None of this is easy, but what you want to do is put your mind at ease. Don't give up hope. I hope this is a start.