[greatbignow]

Plus, if you are back in school, you can defer paying off the college loans. Yes?

Yes, which would help out. If my salary wasn't so pitiful (or the salaries for most professionals in this state), I'd not even consider leaving. But when a doctoral stipend pays out a hundred dollars less than I bring home working, one has to wonder how much sense it will make. Of course I'll still pay support if they do in fact stay with her, which has yet to be played out. I've no problem accepting the fact that I have changes to make, and relationships over the years can and will distort our perspectives. It is very helpful to hear that I am sounding arrogant from someone else, because that is also one of her complaints (she says I didn't used to be that way, and she missed the humble and empathetic me). However, I also feel like I was working much harder to maintain our family (both domestically and financially), and she just didn't care anymore. I'll take everyone's feedback and regardless of my marital outcome try to better myself. Sometimes relationships need to end, but it hurts like hell when you lose someone who at one time was your best friend, lover, and life partner; and she was.

[Wondergirl]

She quit her job and moved in with her mother (4 hours away) while taking the three children with her... is relying completely off her mother and step-father.

In other words, she didn't take off to raise the kids alone in her own space, but is still relying on someone else to help. With only a h.s. diploma, her job prospects, especially in these depressed times, are not good.

in a small, rural state

I have an Internet friend in MV, AR. He's well-educated with several master's degrees and was drawn to live in the Ozarks because of the caves and the area's beauty. The low standard of living also appealed to him because he had recently retired from a Navy career with a good pension. Despite all that, his loudest and longest-time lament is the lack of intellectual stimulation, so I understand what you are saying about that, greatbignow.

I've read through this thread several times and have kept up with new comments. It seems the biggest problem in your marriage (as it is in so many marriages!) is communication and the resulting compromise. I would love to hear your wife's side of the story and then try to find the places where the two of you could agree and then compromise over the rest.

If I were you, I would lie low regarding her but regularly send cards, notes, and letters to the kids, call them, etc. They are the victims in this whole thing. I'm hoping your wife will realize her mom and step-dad do not want to give her a handout (or do they?? ) and will pitch in as much as she can around the house. Maybe the old saw, "You can't go home again," will prove to be true, and the two of you will begin some honest communications.

[greatbignow]

In other words, she didn't take off to raise the kids alone in her own space, but is still relying on someone else to help. With only a h.s. diploma, her job prospects, especially in these depressed times, are not good.

Thank you for your response. Yes, I'd like to hear her part of the story as well, because of course I know there are two sides. My mother-in-law, whom I have a good relationship with, stated that she thought it likely [my wife] would realize she has made a rash and terrible mistake in a few months. I realize my posts don't portray it, but I've loved my wife and enjoyed her company like no one else until the past six months. I just can't imagine being married to anyone else (or sleeping with anyone else), and before this I trusted her more than any other individual in my life at any time. My entire adulthood has been spent with her. I would have trusted her with any amount of money, and I still have her down as the recipient of my life insurance and retirement fund should something happen to me... I'll keep that arrangement until we officially divorce (if we actually do, God forbid). If something did happen to me right now, I'd prefer she take whatever insurance and retirement monies available to support the children anyway... where else would I put it?

[Wondergirl]

she thought it likely [my wife] would realize she has made a rash and terrible mistake in a few months.

I'm slogging along next to your mother-in-law. Your wife is looking for value for herself, someone to appreciate her to the point where she feels young and carefree again. She wants instant gratification, she wants to be happy NOW. It's like going on a diet. No one wants to actually do all the work of eating differently and exercising, but would rather just cut to the chase and weigh less in the morning.

Would she be willing to take the Myers-Briggs and an interest test to find out who she is and what career possibilities there are for her? Most community colleges offer that sort of thing for free to any county resident.

[greatbignow]

I'm slogging along next to your mother-in-law. Your wife is looking for value for herself, someone to appreciate her to the point where she feels young and carefree again. She wants instant gratification, she wants to be happy NOW. It's like going on a diet. No one wants to actually do all the work of eating differently and exercising, but would rather just cut to the chase and weigh less in the morning.

Would she be willing to take the Myers-Briggs and an interest test to find out who she is and what career possibilities there are for her? Most community colleges offer that sort of thing for free to any county resident.

She's saying that nursing is what she'll study if she stays there and goes to school. If she's still up there by August, then she's saying it will likely be permanent. Sayings like that make me wonder if she'll eventually come back, but I have to tell you it's heart-wrenching to live here by myself and await her decision. She also tells me there is no one else, but on her Facebook profile there were some "interview" questions that she put some odd answers to... here were the questions and the board can give me some feedback.

Question #1.

Would you like to be a porn star?

(her response)
"I am with my honey, we're so hot together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Question #2.
Who do you respect?

"Heinrich Himmler and my honey."

(yes, you might think Nazi leaders are odd figures to admire... she's into German WWII history... I don't even know where to begin with that one)

Question #205.

Do you want to get married?

"Do I hate myself that much? I'm desperately trying to get out!!!!!"

So, to the poster who asked what my evidence was, I guess this is it. I almost looked at this like an ink-blot test... she put her impressions on these questions. Ok, one more thing. When I put up my profile on Facebook, it asked if I was single, married, in a relationship, etc. I put down married and it asked to whom, to which I answered my spouse's name. She blew up and asked why I did that because she knew we were still married and she felt I was trying to smother her. It was completely innocent and I had no idea the Facebook profile question would ask her for confirmation. Ok, please follow my logic here and tell me if I'm off base or what...

If that question threw her off her rocker...

She said that there is no one else at this time, and has denied any affairs. However, she stated that the interview questions were "a joke" and that she wasn't serious about any of them. I asked her who her "honey" was to which she replied, "Well, that WAS you." I'm not sure if she slipped up and accidentally responded in a way that "let the cat out" or if she is really joking but given her anger at the marriage confirmation I don't think the questions were a joke. Also, given her response to the marriage question, which was clearly what she is dealing with right now. So, that is what gives me reason to wonder... or, as C&C Music Factory once sang, "Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm...." And so, I put my question out to the board... am I being logical about this? She has since then erased all the interview questions. I called and emailed her and stated that if there was in fact someone else that I was not interested in any chance at reconciliation and we could begin divorce proceedings... after denying any affairs, she erased them. That is also where I stand. I'll take her back until she's had someone else... after that I'm not going to even try. So, I don't know what to think. It could be nothing, but I have to wonder. Honest feedback please.

[Wondergirl]

am I being logical about this?

Nope! She's feeling her oats (read: acting like the teenager she wishes she still was). Stop it with the interrogations via email and phone. Instead whisper sweet nothings and court her. She's pushing your buttons (but don't let on you know that). If you need advice on how to be romantic, holler. We'll all help.

[Wondergirl]

When you talk with her (remember, no accusations or anything negative or personally challenging), ask her what is the one thing she would love for you to change about yourself. Then let us know what she said.

[greatbignow]

Nope! She's feeling her oats (read: acting like the teenager she wishes she still was). Stop it with the interrogations via email and phone. Instead whisper sweet nothings and court her. She's pushing your buttons (but don't let on you know that). If you need advice on how to be romantic, holler. We'll all help.

Ok, thanks. It can be so difficult for someone in this situation to accurately gauge responses, and I readily admit that deficiency. I'd love to whisper sweet nothings and court. I've been going back to the gym because after a year and a half of working in an office I neglected working out at the gym. I'm not fat by any means and still retain some definition, but not like when I did the protein shakes, creatine, and weights on a daily basis. I do want to look good for her, and it's so sad when I go to bed because even though she's gone I never roll over and take "her side." It's like I've gotten so used to her being there I still only take my half of the bed, unconsciously. That's just it, sometimes when I speak with her she'd just start talking about daily things, almost like she's talking to a friend... When I get a minute, I'm going to cut and paste an email she sent me this week... it's the first email that really details what she dislikes about me now. Good news is that they're nothing I can't change or am not willing to change. Please make no mistake, I love my wife and before things went downhill she was my best friend. I want her to be happy as well, though.

[Wondergirl]

even though she's gone I never roll over and take "her side." It's like I've gotten so used to her being there I still only take my half of the bed, unconsciously.

That's a sweet nothing. Tell her that.

[Wondergirl]

When I get a minute, I'm going to cut and paste an email she sent me this week...it's the first email that really details what she dislikes about me now.

Cool! They might be some of the same things we've said we dislike about you. When I was in grad school, the psych profs told us that if something a client is doing annoys us, we can pretty well figure that same thing is annoying the rest of that client's world. There's even a name for it...

[greatbignow]

When you talk with her (remember, no accusations or anything negative or personally challenging), ask her what is the one thing she would love for you to change about yourself. Then let us know what she said.

Ok, I sent that question. I also sent a cut and paste of the women & infidelity book website. She lists some of the stages and signs that women go through during their "midlife crisis" which is what I think is happening. I don't want to lose my family because of this. Here is a copy of the email she sent me, it might also offer some clues. There are a few strong statements in here, but I'm asking for honesty which is why I'm here.

Here it is.

Let me break it down for you. I "flew off at you" because you were/are ALWAYS at me. You did just grill me about the in a relationship thing on here, if you will recall. I explained it then. I checked that box because we are still married, even though you'd never know it from the way you treated me at the end. The very next day, as if it weren't enough, I received that relationship request. Yes, I may have gotten significantly irritated. You just never stop. Even now. Yes, I do get hateful and rude. Now I finally have some peace from your continual barrage. I am beginning to be happy and kindly like I was when I first met you. I have changed so much over the years. I hate who and what I have become with you. I feel horribly warped. That has slowly been changing now that I am not around the never-ending stress and tension that I felt. You are failing to understand for some reason that it was always something with you. I feel that it's totally fair and accurate to say that neither one of us was what the other wanted. Can you not see that over the years we have both changed?! Not at all on the same level or regarding the same things. All I wanted was for you to finally grow up; when you did you removed all the fun things about yourself that I liked. You became a y, hateful, anxiety-ridden old man that no one can stand to be around!! Yes, you did assume more of the domestic duties, but I wanted to do those. Not have you take them from me. Some of them were not done that well, in my opinion. I was forced to work my off and keep completely ed up hours and STILL you did nothing but and complain and tell me everything bad/unsatisfactory that I was doing!! You'd not tell me how you appreciated MY sacrifice; you'd just go on and on about how it was never enough. Don't you see, all the monitary comfort you were offering was at a terrible cost. You can't buy me off anymore. It became not worth dealing with you and listening to you complaining constantly!! You always tell me everything that you think I cannot do. I am SO tired of you telling me that I cannot do anything for myself!! You used to tear me down so much that I really wanted to die. Do you get that?! I used to hate living because it was all about the nothing that I could do effectively. I also do not want the girls to see that and think that it is a real relationship. I do not want [our son] to grow up and treat his future wife that way either. You still do not see that it was ALL about you. I can't believe that you'd just give up on the children like that. They are always yours and mine. You are just throwing them away. Nice. That's mature. You hurt them so much by not being there. They are not traumatized, hate to break it to you. They miss you, but they are doing very well. I hope that you'd not turn your back on them. It is up to you. It is not about you and I. NO ONE ever was or could replace my Daddy. He was always there for my brother and I; that is why we love and need him so much to this day. HE did not allow anyone to take his place. I would be bringing them down to you. It's not you catering to my schedule!! God, you are so immature and stubborn sometimes. It is not about how you or I feel. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE CHILDREN!! You don't seem to get that. You are selfishly focused totally on your own hurt. You have hurt so many people over the years, apparently you have forgotten that. You have become so arrogant and conceited. That is another thing I cannot abide. You did not used to be this way. You had a humility and empathetic way about you that used to make possible my forgiving you every time you did something totally ing moronic no matter how bad it was. You have hurt me so much over the years. You can NEVER know the pain and humiliation I have suffered because of YOU!! I hope that you are someday repaid for all the terrible things you did to me. That is how I've grown to hate you. My future plans do not include you either but for the children. When you can grow up enough to be a man like they need then contact me. Your whining is disgusting and you may do so all alone.
DANIELLE.

Maybe you should examine yourself sometime, the way you are acting is not worthy of them!!

[asking]

I also sent a cut and paste of the women & infidelity book website.

NB.

"You just never stop. Even now. Yes, I do get hateful and rude. Now I finally have some peace from your continual barrage."

These two statements are related.

If you send a "friendly" email in which you, at the same time, accuse your wife of infidelity--don't expect to get a friendly answer back.

I don't think she's seeing anyone; you have simply driven her away. I see someone who was desperate for some autonomy. My two cents.

[greatbignow]

NB.

These two statements are related.

If you send a "friendly" email in which you, at the same time, accuse your wife of infidelity--don't expect to get a friendly answer back.

I don't think she's seeing anyone; you have simply driven her away. I see someone who was desperate for some autonomy. My two cents.

Woops.

Maybe I should have rephrased how I posted that. It's about infidelity, but it also discusses why women grow dissatisfied and leave long-term relationships. I used to do quite a few drugs and drink when I was younger (10 years ago when I played heavy metal music and went around playing shows a lot). She just wanted me to grow up, but also thought I was "fun." Now that we had a family and I finished school, I grew up and got a real job... found responsibility, etc. However, I did complain a lot. I never had any fun or time for anything I wanted to do... anyway, I'm willing to give her space, and don't want her to be unhappy. I thought I'd finally became what she wanted in a dad and husband... guess I was wrong. Yes, I used to be a lot more fun. Growing older can do that to you though...

[greatbignow]

NB.

These two statements are related.

If you send a "friendly" email in which you, at the same time, accuse your wife of infidelity--don't expect to get a friendly answer back.

I don't think she's seeing anyone; you have simply driven her away. I see someone who was desperate for some autonomy. My two cents.

Thanks for the feedback as well; it's the only way I can improve myself and have any chance at building a relationship with her and our family again. I think for now she just needs her own space, which I have no problem doing. Maybe I should get into the doctoral program and we can see how it goes over the next few years... I don't really know what to do at this point... wish I did.

[asking]

It doesn't have to! Being a dad doesn't have to mean carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders and being a grouch. There's a happy medium between all work and all play. I suspect that's what she was hoping for.

If you sent her a website about infidelity, with your history of criticizing her, she'd be forgiven for taking it as implicit criticism. She writes quite well for someone with minimal formal training.

[Wondergirl]

Now I finally have some peace from your continual barrage. I am beginning to be happy and kindly like I was when I first met you. I have changed so much over the years. I hate who and what I have become with you. I feel horribly warped. That has slowly been changing now that I am not around the never-ending stress and tension that I felt. You are failing to understand for some reason that it was always something with you... It became not worth dealing with you and listening to you complaining constantly!! You always tell me everything that you think I cannot do. I am SO tired of you telling me that I cannot do anything for myself!! You used to tear me down so much that I really wanted to die. Do you get that?! I used to hate living because it was all about the nothing that I could do effectively.

Bingo! We all should get an honorary Psy.D. Like I said --

They might be some of the same things we've said we dislike about you. When I was in grad school, the psych profs told us that if something a client is doing annoys us, we can pretty well figure that same thing is annoying the rest of that client's world. There's even a name for it...

Okay, now where do you go from here? No more accusations. No more haranguing. Could you arrange your life so she could come home with the kids and start to take nursing classes? Is there a community college near where you live? She could take core courses inexpensively. They might even have a certificate program for LPN or CNA to give her some credentials and experience as she goes to school. I would think at least some RN programs offer classes as distance learning that she can do at home on her computer. What I'm trying to say is that there are all sorts of ways to slice a watermelon. Would she be able to go to school, financially and according to your ideas of things?

[asking]

No more accusations. No more haranguing.

I agree. But it's not that easy to break a habit like that. It really takes focus, discipline, and practice, as well as commitment. It will take months of self restraint and looking on the bright side. Definitely not impossible though.

Could you arrange your life so she could come home with the kids and start to take nursing classes? Is there a community college near where you live? She could take core courses inexpensively.

Positively makes my heart glow just thinking about it! I hope this can work out. Now I'm all ready to cheer Greatbignow on...

[Wondergirl]

I agree. But it's not that easy to break a habit like that. It really takes focus, discipline, and practice, as well as commitment. It will take months of self restraint and looking on the bright side. Definitely not impossible though.

But now he has US here to help him and to make him accountable. Plus, he has all that psych under his belt and should know how best to use it (on himself). He will be his own best client.

Positively makes my heart glow just thinking about it! I hope this can work out. Now I'm all ready to cheer Greatbignow on...

Will she come back with that carrot dangling and his promise to change? We certainly could help with that part too.

[asking]

Will she come back with that carrot dangling and his promise to change?

Some of us are on the edges of our seats...

[talaniman]

Whether she comes back or not, be a good dad and let the rest work itself out. Her email explained a lot so hope your paying attention.

Originally Posted by greatbignow
I also sent a cut and paste of the women & infidelity book website.

The basic problem in your life is in trying to fix her and analyze her, you neglected to see yourself through realistic eyes, and fix yourself.

I don't understand this... why leave a husband who cooks 5 days a week and is willing to help you make it through school? I don't think she's likely to finish college raising three kids by herself,

You may have thought you were doing the right thing, but you weren't, not only are you putting her down, but patronizing her also. What's worse, you were not listening, or paying attention to any of her real needs, just what YOU thought was important. That has to change, whether she will take you back or not.

Your focus should be on your children, not her, as you make some adjustments to your attitude.