[mclarko]

Condition 10 of Terms and Conditions of Employment: Do whatever your boss tells you to do!

A new office has been built. At each desk location there are 2 CAT5 cables. In the lobby where there will be a BT line coming in, a bunch of cables hang down with bare ends (no connectors on ends). Below on the floor Im told is a Patch Panel. On this panel there are 24 sockets for RJ45. All 24 sockets on the patch panel itself are connected via a sheathed cable to a big white "shoe box sized" connection box. That's it!

I have 3 questions:

1. If it is possible to ascertain from my description, where do the dangling cables in the lobby go? Should they have RJ45 on them so they can be plugged in to the Patch panel? Maybe they are destined to go into the Shoe box sized box? The latter would make sense, since I can imagine that the 24 sockets on the patch panel need to go to a router and then to a modem and then BT line?

1. Why are there *2* CAT5 cables going to each desk in the office? There are 17 desks, and so 34 cat5 cables, and yet the patch panel has only 24 RJ45 sockets. Are they for different types of networking?

2. What sort of equipment do I need (router/ switches etc) to set up a network, assuming I have 17 PCs and a Patch Panel with 24 sockets? Do I buy a 24 port router or do I need a switch (not sure what one is)...


Crikey!

Slightest bit of light on this would be helpful :|

Malco

[ScottGem]

Sending 2 cables to each is not unusual. Generally, one may be used for data, the other for phone service. Its possible that one of the wires is going back to a telephone panel, not the network patch panel.

Where is the wiring contractor? Didn't he finish the job?

What should probably be happening is each pair should end in a wall jack with 2 RJ45 jacks, one labeled phone, the other data. If you can't get the wiring contractor to finish the job, you will need a line tester and an assistant with a walkie talkie or other communications devices. You will then need to test and label each line to see where it goes back to.

Good Luck.

[StuMegu]

With the wires, I agree with Scott, why has this job not been finished? These wires will probably need to be connected to the back of the patch panel, not the front connections. The front connections go between the patch panel and the switch. As Scott says, if they are not numbered or labeled in any way this will need to be done manually.

It's quite a job to do, will probably be easier to get someone in to finish the job! Maybe the white box is the telephone system, do you have phones to connect to the wall sockets next to the desks?

[mclarko]

Sending 2 cables to each is not unusual. Generally, one may be used for data, the other for phone service. Its possible that one of the wires is going back to a telephone panel, not the network patch panel.

Where is the wiring contractor? Didn't he finish the job?

What should probably be happening is each pair should end in a wall jack with 2 RJ45 jacks, one labeled phone, the other data. If you can't get the wiring contractor to finish the job, you will need a line tester and an assistant with a walkie talkie or other communications devices. You will then need to test and label each line to see where it goes back to.

Good Luck.

Yes the wiring is definitely incomplete. Trying to find their contact details. Hopefully I won't have to do the line testing stuff :eek: but at least I know what to do now.


A pair of CAT5s at each desk location (phone and data) seems to fit.

Assuming the 17 PCs end up at the 24 port patch panel, do I need cables which go into a switch, which then just plugs into a modem? Or is a router what I need?

Rgds

Malco

[mclarko]

With the wires, I agree with Scott, why has this job not been finished? these wires will probably need to be connected to the back of the patch panel, not the front connections. The front connections go between the patch panel and the switch. As Scott says, if they are not numbered or labeled in any way this will need to be done manually.

It's quite a job to do, will probably be easier to get someone in to finish the job! Maybe the white box is the telephone system, do you have phones to connect to the wall sockets next to the desks?

There will be phones, but not at present.

Im a web designer not a network design guru, but its kind of interesting (the techno geek in me)

There will be a server too, and I googled across some info about Fast EThernet. I understand from this that with 17 PCs accessing a server, Fast Ethernet is really important. Should I ensure the switch is Fast Ethernet capable? Routers seem slow? And expensive.

There are many things to think of... Fast Server HD 15k rpm 4ms seek etc?

Thanks for your reply.

Malco

[StuMegu]

It depends what those pc's will be doing! Make sure the server has a Gigabit card in and the switch has a gigabit uplink to connect them together. After that you should be fine with 100Mbps for the switch connections and the pc's. Of course, I repeat, it depends what it's for!

You only need a router to connect with the internet, that will also plug into your switch (unless you run NAt on a server etc). It's quite difficult to tell you exactly what to get without knowing all the requirements, (storage, security, speed, etc.)

[mclarko]

The PCs will actually be used by staff who will email the odd attached file and browse INternet a little. I just feel that potentially, there will be up to 24 simultaneous requests to send / receive data, and that the server needs to be reasonably fast .

What do you mean by switch having gigabit uplink - are you referring to the switch technology itself (being gigabit compatible)? Ahhh... just seen one http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/s...tml?NGR-FSM726



x PCs -> switch -> router -> modem
Not sure why a router is needed?


Thanks for your help. A lot has been cleared up by identifying the dual CAT5 cables as phone and data.


Malco

[StuMegu]

A router is a device that directs network traffic onto different areas (i.e. the internet and back). Your server can act as a router with the modem plugged directly into that, but I prefer a separate hardware router with built in modem. For one thing, you can quickly reset a hardware router if the internet is not working and it doesn't require the server to be rebooted!

As before, there are many configurations you can adopt with this but for a basic setup an integrated router/firewall/modem device is very useful.

As for the server, the best your budget can afford is my advice! Even if you don't fully utilise it now, you should plan for three years down the road.

[ScottGem]

Your boss should hire a network consultant to set this up. As Stu said, a router is a separate device here. The router will connect your network to the Internet. It has nothing to do with connecting the PCs to the LAN.

I agree with Stu, that the only thing necessary to be Fast Gigiabit is the server connection. You need to analyze how the network will be used. Look at the uses of various departments. If the server will be acting as a file server some departments (Accting maybe) might need a faster connection. So what you might consider is one Fast Ethernet switch with 2 100Mbps switches all 8 port devices. Connect the server and the hi speed users into the Fast Ethernet switch (making sure they have Fast Ethernet network cards). Then the other users into the regular switches . The other switches get connected to the Fast Ethernet one as does your router.

[mclarko]

[QUOTE=StuMegu]A router is a device that directs network traffic onto different areas (i.e. the internet and back)... QUOTE]

Yes, that has cleared up a lot of confusion. I won't attempt to use a server acting as router. Hmm... so any modem with more than one LAN port in it is a router?

I have figured from you good folk that I could have up to 24 PCs (including file server) wired individually to a patch panel. From here I will straight wire to a switch with one port being used to uplink to a router. The router/modem I imagine will probably have 4 ports on it to allow for later expansion. Maybe it could even be wireless router / modem, since the offices are between 15 and 25m away through breezeblock.

Its also clear that that the dual cable CAT5 going to each desk location is DATA and PHONE.

Many thanks for your help on this one

Malco



Malco

[mclarko]

[QUOTE=ScottGem]Your boss... QUOTE]


Yes, my boss! Well, its not so much the network design I am thinking of, but the management of such a structure. I am thinking of what software to use to allocate users with permissions to their own DIR on the file server. MAybe this is simply done in WINXP PRo when I sit down and do it.

Surely too these systems have glyches and neeed regular maintenance or at least someone on call to iron out small techi problems. Probably most effective if I write this down for the reactive fire fighting boss to read ;)

Not sure I totally understand your network design. You say that the server should be Gigabit preferably, and yet you mention later the server and other fast users be connected to a Fast Ethernet switch , which itself is presumably uplinked to the standard 24 port switch.

Switch with 1 Gigaport on end (LHS)
| | | | |
|
Switch w/ 3 Fast Ethernet
| | |File Server
| | HeavY User
| Heavy User 2


This is all interesting stuff :D

Malco

[cajalat]

Malco,

The Netgear switch you identified FSM726 is a descent switch. You'll get 2 GigE ports plus 24 FE ports. For a small office environment this will likely be way more than you'll ever need. If you're really unsure then go with http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/s...tml?NGR-GS724T which gives you 24 GigE ports for a small price bump. Either switch will also allow for port trunking which means that if you need to add another switch you can use some of the existing ports to daisy chain these switches together. Or you can spend a little more money and get switches that have a special daisy chain (stacking) capability.

There are many options out there but to truly figure out the right solution you'll need to do some homework. Either have a consultant come to look at your overall requirements or if you feel ambitious you can do that but I don't recommend it if you've never done this before. You need to look at your current connectivity needs inside the office, your expansion/growth outlook, and your external connectivity needs/options/availability. All of these will drive your solution. You may find that what you need is something a little more than a simple switch. It could be a combination of dedicated switches and routers, or a hybrid (Layer 3 switch). Then you'll need to find out about DHCP/NAT/Firewalls services if your equipment doesn't handle that as some higher end more specialized equipment sometimes don't offer what your typical home cable-modems offer. That's why it is important to have consultants who've done this before and know the ins and outs of the technology do this for you.

Now, regarding figuring out which cable end goes where... again, hire someone since this is a labor intensive job, or if you really must do this yourself then get yourself a lan cable tone kit. You plug the tone generator a jack inside an office and you use your tone detector in the wiring closet. The tone detector will detect the tone being generated from the other end by waving it across the bundle and the closer you get to the tone the louder the tone gets until you hit the actual cable and the tone becomes noticeably distinct. You do this to each jack and office and every time you find the other end you label it (hence labor intensive).

Casey

[mclarko]

Malco,

The Netgear switch you identified FSM726 is a descent switch. You'll get 2 GigE ports plus 24 FE ports. For a small office environment this will likely be way more than you'll ever need. If you're really unsure then go with http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/s...tml?NGR-GS724T which gives you 24 GigE ports for a small price bump. Either switch will also allow for port trunking which means that if you need to add another switch you can use some of the existing ports to daisy chain these switches together. Or you can spend a little more money and get switches that have a special daisy chain (stacking) capability.

There are many options out there but to truly figure out the right solution you'll need to do some homework. Either have a consultant come to look at your overall requirements or if you feel ambitious you can do that but I don't recommend it if you've never done this before. You need to look at your current connectivity needs inside the office, your expansion/growth outlook, and your external connectivity needs/options/availability. All of these will drive your solution. You may find that what you need is something a little more than a simple switch. It could be a combination of dedicated switches and routers, or a hybrid (Layer 3 switch). Then you'll need to find out about DHCP/NAT/Firewalls services if your equipment doesn't handle that as some higher end more specialized equipment sometimes don't offer what your typical home cable-modems offer. That's why it is important to have consultants who've done this before and know the ins and outs of the technology do this for you.

Now, regarding figuring out which cable end goes where...again, hire someone since this is a labor intensive job, or if you really must do this yourself then get yourself a lan cable tone kit. You plug the tone generator a jack inside an office and you use your tone detector in the wiring closet. The tone detector will detect the tone being generated from the other end by waving it across the bundle and the closer you get to the tone the louder the tone gets until you hit the actual cable and the tone becomes noticeably distinct. You do this to each jack and office and every time you find the other end you label it (hence labor intensive).

Casey

Sorry for tardy reply!

Alas, the cabling will be completed by a contractor. I have to design the network and install the hardware and server software etc :| Luckily I like figuring out the unknown and I have a little time on my side :D

There are 17 PC terminals going to a 24 Port Patch Panel. All 17PCs plus one server will be patched to a 24 port switch and then uplinked to router. Ive been reading about routers at http://www.tomsnetworking.com/lans_r...html?chart=119
Im planning on getting a 4 port router modem but have read somewhere that I need to keep modem and router separate due to overheating concerns. What's the typical setup in a business environment? What I do need to ensure is the ability for a VPN which the router needs to support. By VPN I mean some means by which people can work from home and also admin can monitor and maintain systems... the plot thickens...

Thanks for your help Cajalat!

Malco

[ScottGem]

You need to define how your server is going to be used. Unless you plan on using a peer to peer setup, which I wouldn't recommend for your situation, you will probably be running Windows Server 2003. I would recommend getting a Compaq server because it comes with software to help you setup and manage the server. Actually I think you would need at least 2 servers. One to handle authentication and the other to function as a file server. The authentication's server's primary task is to accept and authenticate logins. The file server is where you put personal and shared volumes.

As for the router, this depends on how you will connect to the Net. Using business broadband (either cable or DSL) is usually the most cost effective. So you will want to get a router that connects to either a cable or DSL modem and provides the VPN capability. I believe both Linksys and Netgear have viable products for small businesses.

Whether you use a 24 port switch or daisy chain smaller switches is up to you. As Casey said you need to either do or have done a comprehensive analysis of how the network will be used. Some users might need to coloborate on shared files more than others. So you may only need one smaller Gigagbyte Ethernet switch for those users and the server and FE switches for the rest.

[mclarko]

You need to define ......

Yes Ive been getting quotes for a 17 user license for Win Server 2003. Haven't looked at Compaq yet, but noticed Dell do these Server packages with lots of helpful setup software tools and support. Will look at Compaq too :)

2 servers! :O This sounds expensive? Double up on software? Many office workers will be out during the day. I know that one of the 17 users has never used a PC before :O :D MInd you, there will be an inventory MRP system on the server. Email will be served up too I imagine. The main usage will be shared file space and backup initially.

There will certainly be some power users, so 2-4 Giga ports on the switch and a Giga enabled router is what Ive penciled in. Actually there's not much difference in price between a complete Giga switch and one with the odd Giga port. Im sure in 2-3 years every PC in every new office will be Giga enabled. Its wired with Cat5e, which I think will handle it.

Im sure it will be DSL piped into the building, since its in a new business park with a cluster of offices planned for hi-tech companies.


Yes, I suppose the big question is the server spec. Clicking through Dell the other day, they quickly convinced me to consider spending at least £2k on a server and that's without some extras. I think this is where experiential knowledge helps. I can tell you that Pentium I with 8Mb RAM isn't going to kick it for your home use, but not sure I can extrapolate this knowlledge to a server environment... :D

Malco

[ScottGem]

Frankly, I'm down on Dell right now. Their tech and customer support has gone way downhill. Compaq has always been a top player in the server market. Having 2 servers would not be that expensive, you can get away with a lower end machine for authentication. But I would not use one machine for both authentication and file services. Remember, alos, you only need one set of keyboard, mouse and monitor and a KVM switch for both servers.

Which brings me to the server room. You should have a room that will be kept cool for the servers, hopefully the room with your patch panel can serve.

Another thing you need to consider are UPSes for the servers and other equipment.

[mclarko]

Had a look at Compaq today but lost patience in their Active Answer tool that has gone down :(

If I have one server dedicated to authentication, then surely it doesn't need much HD space. Is there a tutorial on the net you know of for setting up 2 servers like this? I still can't imagine that authentication takes up so much bandwidth, since most people will log on in morning and logoff in evening. UNless by authentication you mean always verifying if user has acces rights to certain areas of the server volumes? Is the second server another licensed user of WS2003?

I was hoping to administer the server(s) logged in on a PC in an office upstairs. Maybe I should create my own office under the stairs in the lobby, since I reckon I'll be spending some time playing catch-up with.. er... just about everything! Some sort of reclining chair to put me feet up whilst reading a book or two on Win Server 2003 ;)

Yes, emergency power supply was not on my list. It is now. Ive been quoted £910 for a 2.5kVA unit to power 2 servers. The rep said that a server typically eats around 500VA, but I should go for the 2.5 with future scalability in mind. Made sense to me this.

Kind Rgds

Malco

[ScottGem]

If I have one server dedicated to authentication, then surely it doesnt need much HD space. Is there a tutorial on the net you know of for setting up 2 servers like this? I still can't imagine that authentication takes up so much bandwidth, since most people will log on in morning and logoff in evening. UNless by authentication you mean always verifying if user has acces rights to certain areas of the server volumes? Is the second server another licensed user of WS2003?

Yes, the authentication server does monitor permissions whenever a network resource is is used. There are other functions that can be done like DHCP. The authentication server maintains the Active Directory. As I said, the authentication server does not have to be a super powerful machines or with a lot of hard drive space. You can get by with a much less expensive machine.

I was hoping to administer the server(s) logged in on a PC in an office upstairs. Maybe I should create my own office under the stairs in the lobby, since I reckon I'll be spending some time playing catch-up with..er...just about everything! Some sort of reclining chair to put me feet up whilst reading a book or two on Win Server 2003 ;)

You can still do that. There are several tools, like Dameware or PC Anywhere that will allow you to take control of the server from your desktop. But there will still be times when you will need to physically be at the server.