[tomder55]

Proponents of a French-Egyptian plan for a cease-fire in Gaza say it might stop the fighting. But for any chance at peace, Hamas must be defeated decisively


The idea behind French President Nicholas Sarkozy's plan was to call an immediate cease-fire to permit humanitarian aid into Gaza — which Israel did — then to hold urgent talks to stop the violence. Israel, with reservations, agreed; Hamas, however, rejected the idea.

Don't worry. Israel will get blamed.

Watching the world's reaction as a small nation surrounded by enemies defends itself from attack is a sickening thing. Along with celebrity Israel-haters such as singer Annie Lennox and former model and rock-star wife Bianca Jagger, the far left in the U.S. a large swath of European intelligentsia and the United Nations have cast Israel as villain and Hamas as victim.

But they've got it backwards. Israel has taken extraordinary care to avoid civilian casualties, going so far as to warn those in buildings it is preparing to strike. Hamas has no such compunction. It uses civilians as human shields, hoping to raise the death toll so the so-called "international community" will blame Israel even more.

In talks, Israel has shown repeatedly through concessions as well as words that it wants a deal and will accept a Palestinian state.

But each time Israel has made concessions, it's been met with the implacable fury of its foe. The world Islamist movement, as embodied by Hamas, seeks Israel's annihilation and nothing else.

It happened after talks at Camp David in July 2000 with President Clinton, when Israel offered PLO chief Yasser Arafat literally 98% of the land he requested, and the possibility of getting most of the remaining 2% down the road. The response? Arafat stormed out, and the violent Second Intifada began.

In 2005, Israel withdrew from Gaza, an act of good will and a major strategic concession to its enemies. But there was no reciprocity. Islamist terrorists attacked Israel, and in 2006 the Palestinians themselves voted Hamas into power — knowing full well that Hamas' explicit goal is the destruction of the Jewish state.

More recently, Hamas spent a six-month cease-fire with Israel rearming and restocking its weapons. When that cease-fire ended on Dec. 19, 2008, Hamas began lobbing deadly Iranian-built Qassam and Russian-designed Grad rockets at Israeli civilian populations.

Fortunately for Israel, a network of bomb shelters built over 60 years of unyielding conflict has kept casualties to a minimum.

Sadly, the same can't be said in Gaza. Hamas has used children's schools, hospitals and mosques as staging grounds for attacks and to store munitions. When civilian human shields are inevitably harmed — and injuries to children and innocents are always regrettable — Hamas doesn't get blamed. Israel does.

Those who think Israel should stop fighting miss the point: Hamas' 1988 charter explicitly calls for the murder of Jews in the name of Islam and the destruction of Israel. It must be repudiated.
The Gaza war could end tomorrow, and the promise of a Palestinian state redeemed, if Hamas and its terrorist allies in the Mideast, including Iran, ended their war of extermination against Israel.

Sadly, this won't happen. No country can negotiate away its very existence. If Israel doesn't destroy Hamas, it will never have peace.
IBDeditorials.com: Editorials, Political Cartoons, and Polls from Investor's Business Daily -- War Without End

[TexasParent]

The individuals who fund terrorist organizations need to be assassinated, whether they be heads of state or private individuals. The kids or misguided adults which are used as cannon fodder by their leaders will keep coming in wave after wave until the money for weapons dries up. Ideological leaders, weapons suppliers, and financiers of terrorist organizations should be targeted no matter which country they reside.

The democracies of the world need to agree to find these people and assassinate them to send a message to those who would come after them that you will be found, and you will die if you support terrorists.

There is little risk for those at the top. Wave after wave of impressionable kids and adults will continue to do the dirty work for those who don't care about the lives of those they hate or even their own peoples as they advance their agendas.

I say divert more of the military spending into intelligence and special forces assassination squads and take these people out.

[tomder55]

In this case we know the head of the snake. It is not Palestinians looking to pick a fight with Israel . It is the disfunctional mullocracy in Iran and the dillusional messianic Mahdi-hatter ;Mahmoud Ahmamadjihad.

But regime change seems to have gone out of vogue . The office of the President Elect intends to open negotiations with them.

[excon]

The office of the President Elect intends to open negotiations with them.

Hello tom:

That's exactly WHY we elected him. Oh, I know you believe in preemptive war instead of diplomacy... But, you got to get with the times... Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

[tomder55]

Ironically any diplomacy initiative we make depends on battlefield conditions with Iran's proxy . If Israel thumps them then we have leverage.

So what comes 1st the chicken or the egg ? Israel has done the office of the President elect a huge favor by helping design the shape of the table.

[excon]

So what comes 1st the chicken or the egg ?

Hello again, tom:

Well, I wouldn't go running over to their embassy with a white flag, which is what I think you righty's think diplomacy is... I'd invite 'em to lunch, though.

excon

[tomder55]

Lunch ? And who says terrorism doesn't pay? I'd serve pork ribs .

The Guardian is reporting that the office of the President elect is planning on direct contacts with Hamas;a group of thugs who ignore cease-fires and any other terms of agreement.
Barack Obama administration 'prepared to talk to Hamas' | World news | guardian.co.uk
Meeting with these groups legitimizes them, whether BO want to believe it or not.

[TexasParent]

lunch ? and who says terrorism doesn't pay? I'd serve pork ribs .

The Guardian is reporting that the office of the President elect is planning on direct contacts with Hamas;a group of thugs who ignore cease-fires and any other terms of agreement.
Barack Obama administration 'prepared to talk to Hamas' | World news | guardian.co.uk
Meeting with these groups legitimizes them, whether BO want to believe it or not.

That's like Hamas saying it will never negotiate with the elected Government of Isreal because it believes it is a terrorist state. Hamas is the elected authority in the Gaza strip, they represent the people of Gaza; who else would you have us talk to? Or do you support regime change; again, and again, and again.

[excon]

lunch ? and who says terrorism doesn't pay? I'd serve pork ribs ..... The President elect is planning on direct contacts with Hamas;a group of thugs who ignore cease-fires and any other terms of agreement. Meeting with these groups legitimizes them, whether BO want to believe it or not.

Hello again, tom:

Couple things...

You're still clinging to ideas of the past... recent past too, because before the dufus in chief, we talked to our enemy's. That's what diplomacy IS. If we only talked to our friends, then our enemy's would BUILD themselves up, like Iran did, when the dufus wasn't talking to them - or like N. Korea did, when the dufus wouldn't talk to them...

But, Obama ISN'T a dufus. He UNDERSTANDS diplomacy. So he's going to TALK to our enemy's.

I don't know what you mean by "legitimizes" them. If you were hit with one of their illegitimate bombs, you'd be just as dead. Besides, they did exactly what the dufus in chief told them to do - hold elections! They did and elected Hamas. I don't know if THAT makes 'em legitimate or not.

Did I say they weren't thugs? I don't think so.

excon

[tomder55]

They have declared existential war against Israel . That is all that is needed to know . There is nothing else to talk about.

[excon]

They have declared existential war against Israel . There is nothing else to talk about.

Hello again, tom:

That's not so.

In fact, there's a LOT to talk about. In addition to their declared endgame, they're not happy about OTHER stuff too, like having enough fuel or medicine... Let's start talking about THAT stuff, and see where it goes.

Negotiation is the only way that these antagonists can redefine their relationship. There's no reason to suspect that it wouldn't work here - intractable positions notwithstanding. Skilled negotiation can achieve miracles.

It takes no skill to say "either you're with us, or against us". Plus it takes no skill to drop bombs.

excon

[tomder55]

they're not happy about OTHER stuff too, like having enough fuel or medicine...

The fact is that humanitarian aid has been flowing nonstop through Israeli side border crossings even during this incursion. Don't fall into the trap the media has fallen into. They launch mortars from a UN school and then show the world the Israelis firing on the school in self defense.

Skilled negotiations have prolonged the misery for decades.

[TexasParent]

the fact is that humanitarian aid has been flowing nonstop through Israeli side border crossings even during this incursion. Don't fall into the trap the media has fallen into. They launch mortars from a UN school and then show the world the Israelis firing on the school in self defense.

Skilled negotiations have prolonged the misery for decades.

Well you may as well drop a nuke on every Arab country other than Israel because these terrorists are but cannon fodder for those who really pull the strings and those are the leaders and financiers of terrorist groups; and they can easily be replaced too, in fact they are lining up by the camel load since Bush inserted us into Iraq. And after you've killed most of the population of the Gaza strip another wave will be right behind them and it will be bigger and more deadly.

It's always right to negotiate towards a goal. Smart negotiation can weaken an adversary with multiple consessions over time to the point where they are no longer the threat they once were.

Example: The PLO. Sure other groups have risen, but the PLO through negotiations became a more moderate group over time.

[tomder55]

And Israel has made concessions to a point where soon the goals of Hamas and the PLO will be achieved .

[TexasParent]

and Israel has made concessions to a point where soon the goals of Hamas and the PLO will be acheived .

Even the Hero of the conservative movement Ronald Reagan said: "Talk, but verify".

[tomder55]

That was "trust but verify "


He waited until he had a person in the Soviet Union committed to reform .You did not see him talking to the old guard Ruskies like Brezhnev Andropov or Chernenko. Instead he put Pershing II into Europe ; continued to support anti-communist regimes and counter-revolutionaries ; and begin development of the space shield. He negotiated from a position of strength when the Soviets were almost on their knees.

[magprob]

YouTube - Ron Paul: Israel Created Hamas!

[tomder55]

I bet Israel is supplying the kassan rockets also

[magprob]

Oh tom, you're such a conspiracy nut!

[speechlesstx]

As you said, Israel has been providing humanitarian assistance throughout this ordeal and in fact had to resort to establishing "a North American liaison to media and bloggers" to push videos through since the media wouldn't report it... while CNN eagerly ran with a Hamas fake atrocity and the LA Times seems surprised that Israeli media seems to be favoring their own country.

Meanwhile, though Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, the Israeli's are now The Fourth Reich. But as Goldberg pointed out, "if supposedly all-powerful Israel is dedicated to exterminating the Palestinian people, it is doing a bad job."