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Justwantfair · Jan 9, 2009, 07:50 AM

I would think that it would be easy to state anything is truly a gift from God.

Even the worst sinners could be considered a gift from God considering God is the reason they have life. Life in itself is a gift from God.

xoxaprilwine · Jan 9, 2009, 08:33 AM

From a religious point of view... every branch will handle the issue according to "their practice" be it Catholic, Christian, Lutheran, Buddhism, Hinduism and Muslim... whatever and just as the individual has a free right to do what it is they want; so does practicing religion... I am Catholic and sit on the fence on this issue and I don't agree with the way the Church politically got involved with the gays. There are so many things in controversy sometimes its hard to believe in what you are told. Mary Magdalen (which if proven will also change the definition of priest (priestess) and that priests could have families of their own), so much is being swept under the rug from religious practitioners and participants and the fact that the bible has been re-written so many times. In any event, I am a flexible, reasonable person and I really don't care about the gay situation (do what you want and live on). There needs to be a balance besides there are bigger issues out there that need to be addressed.

From a spiritual point of view the fact is we are all made in his image no one is more gifted then anyone else - we all have purpose... but I don't believe that we have much of a choice here on earth, I feel like it was all premeditated and "meant to be" and that we are all here to teach and learn from each other - the wheel of life has been set in motion the day you where conceived. Bottom line is you can't change who or what you are... and what we define as normal is who's idea? Are you normal? I am not... I am unique and different just like each and everyone else on this planet because no one is the same - what does that say about yourself? You are special and you are loved. I think it goes too far when labeling it a gift! We are ALL gifted. The bottom line is... live your life to your hearts desire, be true to yourself, be righteous, follow the 10 commandments and live as a servant to each other with pure good intent and we would be fine. I would rather obliterate war/genocide/hate/fear/hunger/murder/pedophilia then concern myself with gay's and their rights... truth of the matter is you have a right to be gay so be that... no need to be ashamed and majority of us don't care what you do with your life "its your life".

Alder · Jan 9, 2009, 06:33 PM

Amen, Brother!

N0help4u · Jan 19, 2009, 07:18 AM

Just because we do not think or want something to be a sin does not make it a non sin. The Bible says Gods ways are higher than our ways and our righteousness is as filthy rags to God.
People argue that being gay is not a sin but the Bible teaches that anything outside of a married man and wife is sin so why would being gay be less of a sin than fornication or adultery?
The Bible says that gossip and gluttony are sins too
God doesn't degree sin like being gay is the ultimate sin.

NeedKarma · Jan 19, 2009, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

The Bible says that gossip and gluttony are sins too .

Then pretty much no one is getting to heaven. LOL!

N0help4u · Jan 22, 2009, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Then pretty much no one is getting to heaven. LOL!

Everybody sins but it is the ones who turn to God and ask forgiveness and seek to do His will.
Christians DO sin. The Bible says anybody that says they do not sin is a liar.

TexasParent · Jan 22, 2009, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

Everybody sins but it is the ones who turn to God and ask forgiveness and seek to do His will.
Christians DO sin. The Bible says anybody that says they do not sin is a liar.

The argument I've heard is that practicing homosexuals can't be true Christian's because even if they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, you can't be saved if you continually sin. Since no sin is greater than another, it would be like a murderer accepting Jesus and then continuing to murder but claiming to be saved and forgiven. My understanding from Christian's is that you can't be willfully sinning and be saved. You have to willfully want to turn from your sin and make an effort through prayer and your own actions to change your ways.

Did you know that the divorce rate is around 50%. Did you also know that the divorce rate amongst Christian's is also around 50%.

My point is, since divorce is a sin and forever after if you have intercourse with another person even if you remarry; you are an adulterer. Once you are divorced you can't turn away from the sin unless you choose to never remarry and remain celebate for the rest of your life. So every divorced couple who has remarried is willfully practicing adultery, which means they cannot be saved. There are a lot of divorced people, previously divorced and remarried people in Churches today that believe they are saved and they are welcomed. Why can't a practicing homosexual couple be as welcomed at church and also be saved?

Every time the remarried person makes love to their new partner they are no longer seeking God's will, and are actively sinning against "the word of God' with no real intention of giving it up.

There is no difference between a remarried divorce person and a practicing homosexual in terms of biblical sins. So it seems clear that the Christian approach to homosexuality is discriminatory and hateful since the same rules don't apply to other Christian sinners.

Why does it surprise a Christian that their faith is under attack when it is so hypocritical and dangerous in that it incites hate.

N0help4u · Jan 22, 2009, 02:57 PM

The thing is that if they do not turn to God and they continue in their sin then they are no more forgiven than the adulter or any other sinner.

We, homosexuals, gossipers, liars or whatever need to come to God and then allow God to clean our life up. People put the cart before the horse and want the sinner to be sin free and THEN come to Jesus when it is the other way around.

TexasParent · Jan 22, 2009, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

The thing is that if they do not turn to God and they continue in their sin then they are no more forgiven than the adulter or any other sinner.

We, homosexuals, gossipers, liars or whatever need to come to God and then allow God to clean our life up. People put the cart before the horse and want the sinner to be sin free and THEN come to Jesus when it is the other way around.

My point is though that a remarried person has no hope to follow God's will, unless they stop making love to his new wife. If they come to God and have God clean up their life does it mean all these people who entered a new covenant in a second marriage before God will eventually have to renounce it in order to follow God's will? Even if that Union helps the children and is loving?

cozyk · Jan 22, 2009, 04:28 PM

Texas,
Have you noticed that the "christians that love the gay but hate the gayness" keep avoiding the point that you are making. The re-married point. I get exactly what you are saying. You can't pick your abominations from your bible.

I believe that when you are truly in touch with your core Christ-like inner being, your own "sin radar" will go off. If it does not go off, then you are living in alignment with God. With this highly sophisticated sin radar, the bible is moot. It's really a lot of hear say anyway. In fact my radar is going off right now because I am not responding with the right attitude. This radar is very finely tuned.

nike 1 · Jan 22, 2009, 04:40 PM

My intent is not to offend anyone, so do not get offended.

Whether following the theory of God or the theory of evolutuion, in no way is homosexuality a gift to anyone. According to evolution, a species must reproduce in order to perpetuate that species. According to God, go forth and multiply. Homosexuality does not carry the necessary fuctions in order to do this. Therefore, it is not a gift. If life is a gift, and I'm assuming everyone here believes theirs is, it was surely not brought to be by homosexuality.
We are all designed, either by God or nature, to mate with the opposite sex. Simply put, a male reproduction organ cannot fit inside that of another male reproduction organ, and the female reproduction organ cannot insert into another female reproduction organ. So therefore, how can anyone have been born homosexual.
In either two arguments, homosexuality is a choice only.

black111madonna · Jan 25, 2009, 07:57 AM

Thank you Cozyk for putting this here.
I also believe that being gay is a gift because gaymen are not afraid to show their female side and seem to have their male and female side in a good balance. My daughter from 12 recently said mom why are all the nice men gay? So I explained the male and female side and it could be that reason that they understand women better because they are much more open to the energy of female and practise it themselves.

Peace and love in oneness!

TexasParent · Jan 25, 2009, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by black111madonna

Thank you Cozyk for putting this here.
I also believe that being gay is a gift because gaymen are not afraid to show their female side and seem to have their male and female side in a good balance. My daughter from 12 recently said mom why are all the nice men gay? So I explained the male and female side and it could be that reason that they understand women better because they are much more open to the energy of female and practise it themselves.

Peace and love in oneness!

I'm a nice man, and was a nice boy and I'm not gay. That's a pretty broad brush your daughter is using. Furthermore, when I was a young teen I was almost raped by a gay man, that's not nice it's predatory and wrong by any standard.

There are good and bad men hetero and homo; however I would agree based on the gay men I have known in my life that they may be able to speak the language of women more easily than men as they seemed to be more emotional.

black111madonna · Jan 27, 2009, 03:04 AM

Hi there Texasparent, of course you are right about good and bad men hetero and homo and I don't want to give hetero man a bad name, on the contrary, most of my friends are male and hetero and I have always worked a lot with men because of my technical profession. I have heard a lot of women saying the line: why are all nice men gay? But I guess they never said this to a hetero man or they have had bad experiences with hetero men. This is why I looked up hearing this from my 12 year old daughter.
My daughter was saying this because on TV we see a lot of gaymen in shows doing hair, make up, clothing, house make overs.
We see gaymen always having fun, helping people with their insecurities and I think my daughter sees that as gaymen always trying to get things in harmony and that they talk more about feelings than most hetero men do.
We are from Amsterdam a gay city and I can't help it but my daughter gets along better with gaymen than hetero, but maybe its because she is in the age of being interested more in looks, clothing and feelings.

Its sad that you have had a bad experience being almost raped by a gay man but I have had the same experience with hetero men. My best friend committed suicide because he was gay and not accepted.
When we talk about being gay is a gift of God there is a positive sight to it and maybe we hetero people can learn from that.
You said that gay men seem to be more emotional and I guess that it is the positive part because our emotions are important in our lives. Here are some examples from Goleman's 1995 book emotional intelligence. For survival; our emotions have the potential to serve us as a delicate and sophisticated internal guidance system. Our emotions alert us when natural human need is not being met. For decision making, our emotions are a valuable source of information. Our emotions help us make decisions. Studies show that when a persons emotional connections are severed in the brain, he can not make even simple decisions, Why? Because he doesn't know how he will feel about his choices. For boundery setting; when we feel uncomfortable with a persons behavior, our emotions alert us. If we learn to trust our emotions and feel confident expressing ourselves we can let the person know we feel uncomfortable as soon as we are aware of our feeling. This will help us set bounderies which are necessary to protect our physical and mental health. Our emotions help us communicate with others and the better we can identify our emotions, the easier it will be to determine what is needed to be happy. Unity; our emotions are perhaps the greatest potential source of uniting all members of the human species. Clearly, our various religious, cultural and political beliefs have not united us. Far too often, in fact, they have tragically and even fatally divided us. Emotions, on the other hand, are universal. Charles Darwin wrote about this years ago in one of his lesser-known books called "The expression of Emotion in Man and Animal. The emotions of empathy, compassion, cooperation and forgiveness for instance, all have the potential to unite us as a species. It seem fair to say that, generally speaking: Beliefs divide us, Emotions unite us!

Take whatever is coming to you
Let the beauty of it move you!

Jake2008 · Jan 29, 2009, 04:31 AM

Why is it necessary to equate right or wrong, with religion in the first place. Why is it if religion says it's okay, or not okay, we presume that because it is under the banner of 'religion' then it must be right?

I personally don't think religion has anything to do with spirituality, nor can religion decide who is spiritual and who is not. Being religious does not 'qualify' anybody to judge another.

All people possess some idea of their spiritual selves. We are all spiritual beings, and it isn't because a church decided that you qualify. We are all equal in our spiritual orientation, no one can claim to be more spiritual than any other.

Spirituality, goes beyond those organizations that decide what is right, or wrong.

What difference does it make if a gay person is religious or not. They are who they are, and likely far more enlightened to be able to surpass the limitations of those that judge them in the first place,

Why can't we just accept people the way they are. Why do we either qualify it with being correct, or wrong and sinful. It is up to no person to judge another's sexual orientation.

To do so is just plain arrogant.

Ren6 · Feb 13, 2009, 07:29 AM

As one of the few people posting in this thread who actually happens to be gay, I can vouch for one thing- it's not a choice. For those who say it is, I ask you this- when did you "choose" to be straight? When did you say to yourself, "gee...I'm really hot for my friend Bob, but I'll do the" right" thing and marry a girl?". I guarantee you didn't.

I'm a lesbian and an atheist. I've been "out" so long, I don't see it as a gift or a curse, it's just who I am. Anyone who can't handle it matters not to me. While I didn't choose to be gay, I wouldn't change it, either. It's hard-wired into me, it's one of the parts that make up the whole of me. For those gay people who believe in god, I think that most of them believe that god made them that way. If not, it would make god one real sadistic s.o.b. wouldn't it? Who would want to worship that?

ANB428 · Feb 13, 2009, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by nike 1

My intent is not to offend anyone, so do not get offended.

Whether following the theory of God or the theory of evolutuion, in no way is homosexuality a gift to anyone. According to evolution, a species must reproduce in order to perpetuate that species. According to God, go forth and multiply. Homosexuality does not carry the necessary fuctions in order to do this. Therefore, it is not a gift. If life is a gift, and I'm assuming everyone here believes theirs is, it was surely not brought to be by homosexuality.
We are all designed, either by God or nature, to mate with the opposite sex. Simply put, a male reproduction organ cannot fit inside that of another male reproduction organ, and the female reproduction organ cannot insert into another female reproduction organ. So therefore, how can anyone have been born homosexual.
In either two arguements, homosexuality is a choice only.

I totally agree with you 100%, you hit it right on the money!

cozyk · Feb 13, 2009, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Jake2008

Why is it neccesary to equate right or wrong, with religion in the first place. Why is it if religion says it's okay, or not okay, we presume that because it is under the banner of 'religion' then it must be right?

I personally don't think religion has anything to do with spirituality, nor can religion decide who is spiritual and who is not. Being religious does not 'qualify' anybody to judge another.

All people possess some idea of their spiritual selves. We are all spiritual beings, and it isn't because a church decided that you qualify. We are all equal in our spiritual orientation, no one can claim to be more spiritual than any other.

Spirituality, goes beyond those organizations that decide what is right, or wrong.

What difference does it make if a gay person is religious or not. They are who they are, and likely far more enlightened to be able to surpass the limitations of those that judge them in the first place, .

Why can't we just accept people the way they are. Why do we either qualify it with being correct, or wrong and sinful. It is up to no person to judge another's sexual orientation.

To do so is just plain arrogant.

Duh!? Why did I say DISagree when I so clearly agree? Sorry for the confusion.:confused::o::D

cozyk · Feb 13, 2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by ANB428

I totally agree with you 100%, you hit it right on the money!

For reproduction , yes. For attraction, unfortunately it is not that cut and dry. We can't explain WHY some people are attracted to the same sex, we just know they are. I think it be more "christian" (a word I dislike more and more) of us to accept people for who they are. WHO and why we love is not what is important. What is important is that we do love.
I am for any love that creates caring, sharing and nurturing in this world where intolerance, judgment, and division are rampant.;)

ANB428 · Feb 13, 2009, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by cozyk

For reproduction , yes. For attraction, unfortunately it is not that cut and dry. We can't explain WHY some people are attracted to the same sex, we just know they are. I think it be more "christian" (a word I dislike more and more) of us to accept people for who they are. WHO and why we love is not what is important. What is important is that we do love.
I am for any love that creates caring, sharing and nurturing in this world where intolerance, judgment, and division are rampant.;)

I am not saying that I can explain why some people are attracted to the same sex. I don't think there is an explanation. I have nothing against gay people. My best friend is gay and I accept him for who he is as a person, and I love him dearly. I am a christian. I do not judge, I am just saying that I don't believe that it is a gift from God to be gay.