[needtostop]

I am receiving calls from ARO Inc regarding a New Ventures business loan which dates back to the mid 90's. In March of 2006 I wrote a letter to ARO to contact me in writing only since this loan had passed the time frame for the statute of limitations. I never heard from them again until I received a call yesterday, Jan 5th, 2009. I called and told them to contact me in writing only. They claimed that since my letter was not notarized, they will continue to call me daily. What can I do to make this stop? Should I hire legal help?

[N0help4u]

Does your last payment go back enough for the statute of limitations? Some people think the SOL starts prior to the last amount they paid. If you sent them even a partial payment that is the date you go back to.
I don't know about Canada but if you are being called constantly by bill collectors it is considered harassment.

Here are some sites that might be helpful
canada bill collector harassment - Google Search

[needtostop]

I have never made any payments. It was for a personal guarantee on a business loan.
Thanks for the link. I will look into it.

[cdfry]

Actually ARO have called me in the past few days as well for an unpaid New Ventures Loan from the 90's as well. The agent told me that this type of debt will never be retired and I would be called until I pay. The last time they called me was in January of 2006 at which time I explained I wanted written proof (statements) of the debt which I never received and have asked for the same again. The agent told me she had record of the prior request and proof of the business bankruptcy I had sent her in 2006. I again requested documentation of debt and interest. Is there a statute of limitations for the Ontario New Venture Loan?

[needtostop]

That is a good question and I sincerely hope someone has a qualified answer for that. I thought that once you claimed bankruptcy for that business they cannot pursue you any further. I read someone else had a similar situation but this individual had actually started making payments and then hired an attorney and quickly got his money back. I hope this helps some. I know how frustrating this all is.

[cdfry]

I have been researching this question and have found some interesting info: 1st that ARO probably purchased the New Venture debt for the purpose of collection; 2nd Aro should have contacted us in writing (as we both requested) 3rd the only ways they can re-start the statute of limitations is to have you admit to the debt in writing and possibly verbally on recorded conversation, or if you attempt payment. Otherwise, I believe you can send them a letter demanding that they do not contact you in that matter again. Read the following excerpt from this website:

ARO Inc.'s information from the internet Canadian-Money-Advisor.ca - discussion forum advice for Canada


Being contacted by creditors, banks etc. has no bearing on when when the clock starts on the 2 year limitation period. It STARTS on the date discovery of the loan default by the creditor (or when he ought to have discovered it) and ENDS when they file a statement of claim in court.

On potential court actions by creditors going into default before Jan. 1, 2004, the old 6 year limitation period is grandfathered. For these actions, the limitation period STARTS on the date of the last activity on the account and ENDS when the creditor files a statement of claim in court. The date of last activity on an account usually occurs when you make a payment (however small) on the debt. But in some provinces it can be via written debtor acknowledgement. But no, a collector just can't phone you up, secretly record the call and get you to "fess up" and start the clock all over again

[needtostop]

Thank-you for sharing your research! From what I understand, they can call forever. Unless we write a letter stating that the debt is stat barred. I did write them a letter over two years ago and never heard from them until now. I'll have to see if they continue the calls this week. If they do, I'll need to report them. I had read somewhere to contact the Ministry. Do you have other contact information?

[cdfry]

I think continue to try and collect after the statute of limitations has elapsed, they are very manipulative and are hoping to get the debtor to start payments. If they do attempt payments, the debtor is admitting the debt and ARO has them by the short hairs. If all they ever do is call every three years or so and we do nothing, there is nothing they can do. There is a lot of info regarding ARO as a bottom feeder on the net. Let me know what happens

Ministry of Small Business and Consumer Services
Consumer Protection Branch
5775 Yonge Street, Suite 1500
Toronto ON M7A 2E5

Phone (English and French):
416 326-8800 or 1-800-889-9768
Fax: 416 326-8665
e-mail: [email protected]

[needtostop]

They have called and left a message again. Were you able to get them to stop? I told them that I wrote them a letter over two years ago to contact me in writing only. Yet, here they are consistently calling. Looks like I will have to contact the Ministry after all.

[ScottGem]

The agent told me that this type of debt will never be retired and I would be called until I pay.

I think continue to try and collect after the statute of limitations has elapsed,

Ok, first a debt is NEVER retired until paid. That part of what the agent said is true. The owner of a debt has the right to continue to attempt collection until the debt is paid.

The SOL expiring only ends their ability to use the courts to collect.

However, there may be limits as to the methods they can use to collect. I believe Canadian law is similar to US law in that the debtor can request that the creditor make contact only by mail. I would check to see the citation for that law and then tell them the next time they call that you have requested contact only by mail according to <insert citation>. If they call you again, you will seek redress under that law.

[cdfry]

Yes you are right Scott, as a matter of fact, I found out that in these cases, because the money is owed to the Crown (Ontatio Crown Corporation) it has no SOL, and can not be Stats Barred. The Act:

Limitations Act, 2002, S.O. 2002, c. 24, Sched. B

See

See Section 16; Subsection 3

16. (1) There is no limitation period in respect of,

The recovery of social assistance payments, student loans, awards, grants, contributions and economic development loans

So there you have it; a definative answer.

[ScottGem]

So you are saying these New Ventures loan were government loans (I guess to promote new business). Then its possible they CAN use the courts to collect.

So I would suggest your next step is to request verification of the debt and then try to work out a settlement.

[needtostop]

Scott, you have suggested attempting to make a deal with ARO. Years ago I had tried to negotiate with them. I offered to pay half of the original owed amount not including the interest accumulated. They told me that since it was a government loan that I would need to fill out a form to see if my offer would be accepted. On the form they wanted me to disclose all my assets. That's where we stopped. I don't trust these people and do not want to disclose anything to them. Was what they were requesting a standard course of action or was I right to not trust them?

[ScottGem]

That's hard to tell. If they CAN take you to court and get a judgement a judge can order you to list your assets. I would make the offer (but it should be a realistic one) without disclosing specific assets.

[cdfry]

Yes, and ARO likes to play the self-righteous guilt trip card as well. Since this was Taxpayers' money you must repay all of it regardless of your financial situation, as if ARO is a public hero and doesn't make a tidy sum for their collection efforts. All of this is happening while the same Taxpayer's money is being doled out in wheelbarrows full to the likes of the auto indrustry so they can keep paying employees whose unions will not except any form of income roll-back and that have made hundreds of thousands of dollars more income than we have ever seen. That's democracy and fairness for you.

My biggest beef with ARO is that they are requesting almost double the original amount and have never sent the requested supporting documentation for current balance of the debt. Instead, they harrass you for a while then leave you alone for a couple of years only to start again with a higher balance and still no roof of claim. In my case the loan was included in the business bankruptcy and according to my trustee, to be covered by recovered accounts receivables and the sale of business assests. Unfortunately I hired a reputable large bankruptcy company who had a less than honest trustee who through private dealings basically obscounded with the assests andas well as all my records which include the New Venture Loans details. When I complained, he disappeared from the city and the company's payroll. They would do nothing further and that is why I dispute the amount of this account. ARO has told me that they contacted the bankruptcy company in question and claim were told that the company know nothing of me. This is what you are up against.

[needtostop]

CDFry - I am speechless. What you are going through is absolutely horrible! It seems like as much as we try to move forward with our lives, ARO rears it's ugly head to disrupt our lives once again. To give you an update, I did call the Ministry today and because I reside in the USA now, I fall under the US Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Apparently, where I live dictates how a collection agency can contact me. It is not dictated by where the loan originated. I did not know that. I have new research to do. Keep me posted on what happens with you.

[Iknowalotofstuff]

ScottGem is correct in one respect. The SOL does not kill the debt. It only takes away the Court as a tool to collect.

ARO will pester you until you pay. They may get bored if you ignore them. They may return the account to the creditor and soon someone else will bug you. ARO may have bought the statute barred account for pennies on the dollar. They may use you CB report and credit score to coerce a settlement.

There is a fine line between reasonable collection efforts and harassment. Google Service Ontario - Collection Agencies if you want to complain.