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KC13 · Dec 24, 2008, 05:47 PM

The next step would be to remove the front cover from the burner enclosure and run the unit. If successful, check intake for obstruction.

whittle2 · Dec 24, 2008, 06:08 PM

Nothing new re pressure switch; didn't hear any water.

But maybe a good new clue. I noticed this before but this time was really able to peg it. The inductor starts very slowly and maybe it's motor has a problem.

Goes like this:
Turn on thermostat. I hear something 'come on' in the furnace but nothing overt moves or changes.
After a minute or so, the inductor starts to just barely move.
After waiting a long time I encourage it to rotate by spinning. It gains in rpm very very slowly till finally it starts to really go. After a half minute or so of full speed on the inductor, the burners turn on. After a short while, in inductor seems to 'go out' and the burner stops. Somewhere in there the main convection blower kicks in but only for a while to clear out any residual heat (or so I imagine the rationale).

Prior to the inductor getting up to speed, the 32 code is blinking. At full speed the LED is fully on and steady; but 32 comes back after the short 'on' phase.

KC13 · Dec 24, 2008, 06:19 PM

Good observation indeed. At this point, I would recommend calling in a pro - preferably a Bryant dealer. Five-year parts warranty on this unit is minimum, maybe more if you purchased an enhanced/extended warranty. Excessive "participation" on the part of the homeowner may compromise, if not void, these benefits.

whittle2 · Dec 24, 2008, 06:25 PM

That's not a great end point. I am not sure I'll be able to get a pro in before Dec 31, when I asked this AM.

You don't know what the issue might be? Is it possible that it simply a motor swap out thing? I am not sure the warranty is esp worth preserving, since the service techs are so unavailable and we have just over one year left on the warranty.

I am totally impressed by you, KC13. I am not at all impressed by Bryant. The whole setup seems gimcrack, way too easy to go wrong, and broken after just a couple of years. What brand do you recommend?

KC13 · Dec 24, 2008, 06:45 PM

I work for a Bryant dealer, and I am very familiar with their equipment - as much as anyone in the local tri-state area. Any unit by any manufacturer can experience component failure during its lifetime. What you describe sounds like a faulty inducer motor - a motor that isn't manufactured by Bryant. If the motor feels extremely hot, it becomes the most likely culprit but not the only suspect. The inducer assembly is a rather costly part out-of-pocket - trust me, the warranty coverage is worth it. While it is unfortunate that you have experienced a problem with the unit, the overall quality of Bryant is the main reason I chose to work for one of their dealers, as well as equip my own home with Bryant. While it may "simply" be a motor swap-out, the procedure isn't simple. Replacement kits come with instructions; follow them closely if you choose to pursue this on your own. Check with a local Bryant distributor to see what, if any, assistance they may be able to offer regarding the parts warranty. Good luck!

whittle · Dec 24, 2008, 06:50 PM

OK, and thanks again.

Do you have any sense of what the labor would be on the inductor motor? If it's complex it's going to cost me a lot for that... the warranty is parts only if I'm not mistaken.

The other terrible thing is after one day of no heat, we're starting what will probably be a four day weekend for any company that might stock the part. To get a tech in with the part might take an extra week. What a nightmare.

KC13 · Dec 24, 2008, 06:59 PM

I can troubleshoot, change the assembly and run-test the unit in under 1/2 hour; availability of parts is what makes a Bryant dealer your best bet. Be sure to mention the suspected part and have the product # handy.

hvac1000 · Dec 24, 2008, 07:27 PM

Is Bryant still on Winton road. I guess Fred Habegger is dead by now. When they had a problem unit years ago I would run a plain no name truck and fix it for them. Did the same for Carrier. LOL Those were the days.

KC13 · Dec 24, 2008, 07:47 PM

Still there. I'm not sure about Fred. Problem unit? Bryant? No way... :eek:

hvac1000 · Dec 24, 2008, 08:10 PM

I remember when I had to call a engineer at the factory and explain why there aluminum condenser coils were failing back around 1973. He did not believe me so I sent him a sample. Little did they realise how much that error would cost the corporation. I still run one of those units with the aluminum outside condenser coil. The trick was to install a anode on the line feeding the coil then to a good ground. Engineers sometimes make huge mistakes then it is up to us in the field to figure out the cure. That is why I am classified as a field engineer by Carrier. I am way to old to be doing that stuff now. LOL

KC13 · Dec 24, 2008, 08:51 PM

The difference between doctors and God? God doesn't think he's a doctor... can apply to engineers too.

whittle · Dec 26, 2008, 12:17 PM

A Bryant service tech was here today and he said that the inductor motor felt pretty stiff compared to a normal one, and will order a new one on Monday. That means it's going to be till Weds or so till the furnace is fixed, which is a real drag.

Can I lubricate the motor to get it working for a few days? I'm sure it's supposed to be self lubricated (and that's probably why it lasted 3 years) but it's not good having the heat off for the coldest week of the year.

I am not sure how to get the motor off. Three screws allow it to move and I can lubricate with triflow some parts which are then exposed, but to no effect. How do I get the motor completely out? The fan chamber seems to be sealed with silicone and I won't want to violate that. I've taken the black plastic hub off the outside but that does not get me far.

I will have the motor replaced but really want a temp solution for this if I can figure one out. I am very disappointed in the quality of this unit. We have company over for the week and it's a complete nightmare. Bryant was supposed to be open Weds but after the message saying that they'd be closed Thurs and Fri, it hung up. No parts for 4-5 days in the middle of winter; plus the same for new years I'm sure. No I am not impressed.

KC13 · Dec 26, 2008, 02:19 PM

The problem might not be the motor, but the shaft seal behind the motor. If you can see it, you may try carefully pulling it forward on the motor shaft and out of the inducer housing. See what effect this has on the motor drag.

hvac1000 · Dec 26, 2008, 02:36 PM

I can lubricate with triflow some

Triflow is good stuff if you can get it on the moving parts.

whittle · Dec 26, 2008, 02:38 PM

I can see a light grey 'patch' looking thing, maybe that's the seal? There is only about an inch between the motor and the inducer housing, or can I increase that? Is there no way to simply remove the motor (looking for magic).

KC13 · Dec 26, 2008, 03:36 PM

The seal looks like a rubber disc, about the size of a quarter, and the motor shaft passes through it. Sorry, no magic, but removing the 3 motor mount screws may buy you a little more room to work with.

whittle · Dec 26, 2008, 09:28 PM

Temporary success, at least!

The seal was OK. I decided to pull on the inductor housing after pulling it's edge screws and found the silicone was not bonded very strongly. Then I could take it apart and really triflow the motor. I wasn't sure if my hand spinning of the rotor was smoother than when I first tried it, but on reassembly it spun up quite well.

I'm sure the motor still needs replacing but at least I can get some heat into the house for the next few days.

Thanks for the rather amazing help with this.

There are still quite a few things I don't get about the inductor design. Like, there are two large outlets from it. In my case, one goes up and vents outside. The other points down and is covered with a rubber cap. It was completely full of water. I can't see how it wouldn't stay full of water 'forever' and eventually become foul. Also the silicon seal, I guess applied at the factory with a regular caulk type gun, just seems so weak a barrier to the obviously significant moisture that gets whirled around in the inductor chamber. Won't it likely leak out at some point? Now it will for sure since I didn't reseal with silicone but frankly it seems quite mickey mouse. I am just amazed that these appliances are so delicate, by design.

hvac1000 · Dec 26, 2008, 11:52 PM

I am just amazed that these appliances are so delicate, by design.

Actually I use the word Junk quite often.

whittle · Dec 27, 2008, 09:42 AM

Kc13 likes bryant; and maybe they are as good as they get. Do you have a brand that you think is 'solid', or better than bryant?

hvac1000 · Dec 27, 2008, 10:14 AM

Actually all units are made for what is called the price point. All the parts are about the same and the only real difference is the name and some of the technology. We have tested most major brands here and that fact remains through out all brands and lines that are made by the same manufacturer. Example Carrier,Bryant,Payne,Day and Night, and others are all the same parent company. All equipment is designed to fail after so many cycles and what most people do not understand it is not the brand name you buy but the quality of the install that makes a good furnace better than a bad one.