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cadillac59 · Dec 20, 2008, 08:49 PM

Multi-threads merged

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but I thought I'd be daring and just ask.

I met this guy last week at a Christmas party who was nice, but at first I didn't think he was someone I would date because he was overweight. Surprisingly,after spending some time with him , I began to think differently of him. He seemed more attractive to me because of his personality- he was humorous and kind of fun to be with (it's funny how when you get to know a person better they can start to look better to you). He kept looking at me (I'd sort of catch him glancing at me when I wasn't looking) and when I did I'd smile back. He didn't ask me out but I was wondering if I should ask him on a date.

I'm one of those guys who many say is vain (although I don't think I'm too vain)because I'm picky about how I look and dress. I spend an hour at the gym everyday and am fairly muscular; I'm in shape and my weight is perfect (I weigh myself everyday to be sure I don't put on one pound) and I run 3 miles each morning. I've never smoked and never would, and I'm a fitness buff. I'm also very particular about what I eat.

My question is, if I like a guy's personality and find him otherwise attractive, should I just disregard what I might politely call "weight issues" with him or just stick to my guns and insist anyone I date be just like me in the weight and fitness department? If I start making exceptions to this rule will I regret it later because maybe something more is at stake, such as fundamental personality differences?

krzekali89 · Dec 20, 2008, 11:38 PM

Love is through the personality, not looks. Although looks can be a very important thing, they aren't most important.

If you are interesed ask him out, he might say yes. Maybe if you two went on a date it would be the deal breaker. You would know whether you liked him or not. You'd feel that magic and stuff you know?

Also... when I met my now fiancé, I was 150 pounds. I'm only 5'1'' and he was this big buff guy. 5'11'' 203 pounds and 11% Body fat. He was HOT! I felt over weight Iam now 115 pounds, 19% body fat(for a girl is really good less then 16%shows loss in estrogen and gain in testasrone). And now is he pushing 220 and I don't know what his body fat is but he looks 8 months pregnant, but I still love him.

If you do end up liking this guy you can take him to the gym with you, show him your way of eatting. I still eat my way but smarter, because that's what my hubby taught me to do. And I eventually came up with what was best for me. Now I look great. I have a flat stomach and model legs and I couldn't b happier. Maybe you can change his life. You never know.

Good luck and keep in touch I'd like to know what you decided.

JBeaucaire · Dec 21, 2008, 12:12 AM

Looks are useful for picking deer out of the herd and pursuing randomly. It's the fallback when you have nothing else to go on, so you just look for the hotties.

It's normal, it's lame, and it's common.

But most people in LASTING relationships will swear one way or another that looks had little to do with the "making" of a relationship. It's the character, charisma, comedy, and compatibility.

So, relax on the fitness thing. That's your thing. I hope you do it because it feels awesome and not to get people to look at you. That would be sad.

Let it be YOUR thing. Don't put your things on others. Ever. It's pretty mean. We all make the world what we want it to be for us, and the trouble starts when we start imposing too much of our world onto others.

You want to end up in a happy relationship? Look for someone you can admire, laugh with, debate with, console with... not someone to mirror YOU, but to interact with. If you can find someone who makes you feel good about THEM and inspires you to want to be the best you, that's what it's about. It's not about inspiring them to be like you, or even like your "things". But them respecting your things and admiring your commitment to them, that's important.

Date him or not, but keep your stuff yours.

Clough · Dec 21, 2008, 02:00 AM

Hi, cadillac59!

Eventually, when you do have a life partner of some kind, what do you think will be the attributes of either of you that will hold the two of you together for a lifetime?

Looks are something that will change over time and most likely not get better. Personalities are things that can potentially get better and mature with time to their full potential so that the person can be a dynamite individual that anyone might want to be around.

Just something to think about...

Thanks!

roxypox · Dec 21, 2008, 06:06 AM

Well to feel attraction to someone does have something to do with looks, but it has far more to do with personality.

Personally, I feel that a terrible personality can make a person less attractive (say you meet a guy who is considered to be very attractive, but then you talk to him and he has a very unattractive personality... it lessens his looks as well)

If you're attracted to this guy, why should his weight be an issue? Like claugh said; looks change over time. And that is just so darn true, I haven't always looked the way I do now, and I won't look this way forever... and neither will anyone else.

So you should not emphasis on his looks what so ever and just go with the flow: he has a great personality and you found him more attractive after you talked to him.

liz28 · Dec 21, 2008, 06:29 AM

If you like him just take a chance and ask him out. Beauty is skin deep! If you miss this chance you'll be kicking yourself later wondering what could've happen.

N0help4u · Dec 21, 2008, 07:09 AM

When I first saw my old boyfriend in the 90's I thought he looked like a left over hippie that climbed out from under a rock. Then I got to know him and felt a soul connection with him. His wrinkled face started looking attractive to me also.

If he is overweight after you break the ice and know he is interested maybe you could invite him as a guest to the gym with you. Then if it gets more serious get him a pass to the gym as well.

talaniman · Dec 21, 2008, 10:42 AM

If you judge a book by its cover, you may never read a great story, with a lousy cover.

The outside may attract us, but what's inside keeps us coming back.

In a relationship, looks are okay, but we still have to see if the rest of it is compatible with us.

Talaniman axiom- I like 'em all short, fat, skinny, or tall, blind cripple or crazy!

cadillac59 · Dec 21, 2008, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

Looks are useful for picking deer out of the herd and pursuing randomly. It's the fallback when you have nothing else to go on, so you just look for the hotties.

It's normal, it's lame, and it's common.

But most people in LASTING relationships will swear one way or another that looks had little to do with the "making" of a relationship. It's the character, charisma, comedy, and compatibility.

So, relax on the fitness thing. That's your thing. I hope you do it because it feels awesome and not to get people to look at you. That would be sad.

Let it be YOUR thing. Don't put your things on others. Ever. It's pretty mean. We all make the world what we want it to be for us, and the trouble starts when we start imposing too much of our world onto others.

You want to end up in a happy relationship? Look for someone you can admire, laugh with, debate with, console with...not someone to mirror YOU, but to interact with. If you can find someone who makes you feel good about THEM and inspires you to want to be the best you, that's what it's about. It's not about inspiring them to be like you, or even like your "things". But them respecting your things and admiring your commitment to them, that's important.

Date him or not, but keep your stuff yours.

You have to win the gold star for a great answer, thanks (you're in Bakersfield?. I'm in the SF Bay Area but I went to Fresno State, not far away).

All the others' answers were great too and I appreciate everyone's interest (I got more replies than I expected since I was under the impression many here weren't interested in gay relationships).

I guess what I was thinking was that I have a tendency to look down on people who are not in shape (overweight) because to me it indicates some possible problem in their personalities (forgive me if I sound judgmental, I don't mean to)--like low self-esteem, indifference to their well-being. Of course it's none of my business unless I have some relationship with the person, or want to.

Back in the 80's there was a radio talk show host, Dr. Toni Grant, who was a psychologist who said something I never forgot: "People match up on fairly realistic levels." I always understood that to mean that fat people matched up with fat people, the gorgeous with the gorgeous, tall with the tall, short with the short, average with the average, educated with the educated and so on. Now I can't say I agreed with everything she said, but I never thought I could be attracted to anyone who wasn't pretty much like me in the physical sense.

Again, as some noted it's surprising how personality can compensate in many people for lack of luster in the looks department.

cadillac59 · Dec 21, 2008, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Clough

Hi, cadillac59!

Eventually, when you do have a life partner of some kind, what do you think will be the attributes of either of you that will hold the two of you together for a lifetime?

Looks are something that will change over time and most likely not get better. Personalities are things that can potentially get better and mature with time to their full potential so that the person can be a dynamite individual that anyone might want to be around.

Just something to think about...

Thanks!

Hi Clough!

Good points you made.

A good friend and mentor of mine told me that when you go out with someone on a date keep in mind that it's not about him but all about you. We often get confused about that. He said focus on how you feel when you are with the person: do you feel uplifted, do you feel happy, relaxed? Or is he full of drama and tedious? That's how you gauge the relationship.

cadillac59 · Dec 21, 2008, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by roxypox

well to feel attraction to someone does have something to do with looks, but it has far more to do with personality.

personally, i feel that a terrible personality can make a person less attractive (say you meet a guy who is considered to be very attractive, but then you talk to him and he has a very unattractive personality... it lessens his looks as well)

if you're attracted to this guy, why should his weight be an issue? Like claugh said; looks change over time. And that is just so darn true, i haven't always looked the way i do now, and i won't look this way forever.... and neither will anyone else.

so you should not emphasis on his looks what so ever and just go with the flow: he has a great personality and you found him more attractive after you talked to him.

You are right about personality. It's funny how things work that way. I always thought that looks were objective (and they are to a large extent) but it's more complicated than that.

There was a study done recently wherein people were asked to judge the attractiveness of certain people they met. Consistently the people who were viewed as the nicest, most friendly were also judged to be the most attractive. Unpleasant nasty people (in spite of physical attributes) were seen as least attractive. This is consistent with your observations. I thought that was interesting.

excon · Dec 21, 2008, 11:24 AM

Hello cad:

I think looks are very important. I just don't happen to agree with what everybody else agrees is good looks. If she looks good to me, she looks GOOD to me. And, the more I fall in love with a chick, the better looking she gets.

excon

JBeaucaire · Dec 21, 2008, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by cadillac59

You have to win the gold star for a great answer, thanks (you're in Bakersfield?

Thanks, we do try to help in way that's honest. Yep, Bakersfield.

I was under the impression many here weren't interested in gay relationships.

We aren't. We are interested in healthy relationships. Your sexuality shouldn't bear on this particular topic. If it DOES, then you have more issues to deal with than you realize.

I guess what I was thinking was that I have a tendency to look down on people who are not in shape (overweight) because to me it indicates some possible problem in their personalities (forgive me if I sound judgmental, I don't mean to)--like low self-esteem, indifference to their well-being.

It doesn't matter WHY you look down on people (your words, not mine). You can rationalize it any way you want. Looking down on people is elitist no matter how you cut it.

What you're doing here ISN'T being judgmental (another word use wrong nowadays.) You're being superior, elitist, and it goes back to my main point in the first answer I gave you:

JB: "We all make the world what we want it to be for us, and the trouble starts when we start imposing too much of our world onto others."

You already see you take your personal values and impose them onto your image of others. My guess is that this actually causes you far more grief than you realize. It predisposes you to be dissatisfied.

And your main question here is potential proof of what I'm saying. You're confused at your ability to BE attracted to someone NOT like you. That's not confusing at all when you have a non-superior concept of what being in healthy relationships springs from.

Of course it's none of my business unless I have some relationship with the person, or want to.

Be careful here. You're right, getting into a relationship with someone means you DO get to exert influence on them. You don't get to bring someone in close and be elitist, though. That's just manipulative and mean.

Earlier I said you misuse "Judgmental". You actual NEED to be a person who makes judgments. Judgmental should mean "gather unbiased information and make a biased choice for your life". That's hard to do correctly. I'm talking about making choices for YOU, not making choices and pushing them onto others. This is where people mess this up.

You can be attracted to a lamp post if your heart demands it. But the moment you take that attraction and use it as an excuse to demean the lamp post for BEING a lamp post and start exerting pressure for it to "better itself" based on your world view, well... you're in trouble. "Any respectable lamp would want to be a traffic light, not a lamp post. Electrical Engineers worldwide agree...."

Losing the metaphor and talking to you directly again, your desire to be fit is admirable and hopefully a successful personal goal. You even COULD decide to make that a requirement of your personal selection for a mate. But you can't use that choice to expect/require change in others, only to judge them by. Which is fine.

So, it's OK to say, "I don't want to date an overweight person because their lifestyle and mine would be at odds and the last thing I want to do is make someone feel bad about themselves because of the way I lead my life."

It's NOT OK to say, "I don't want to date overweight people because they have issues and I don't want those issues." There may be people that is true for, but this second statement imposes a false sense of "inferiority" on a group and it's pointless to do that, ever.

The first statement allows you to make a judgment for yourself in the hopes of not hurting others. It's a much better, positive way to reach the same conclusion.

... Dr. Toni Grant who was a psychologist who said something I never forgot: "People match up on fairly realistic levels." I always understood that to mean that fat people matched up with fat people, the gorgeous with the gorgeous, tall with the tall, short with the short, average with the average, educated with the educated and so on.

You are probably remembering Dr. Grant's meaning accurately. But don't oversimplify. The doc is saying something pretty basic that ISN'T bad... that there is a realistic basis for people being together when you examine it.

Fat people dating fat people is only a realistic basis for a relationship if you have nothing else to your life to supersede your weight as a primary factor. This simply CAN'T be true for the majority of healthy relationships, because only a fraction of them can have that as the primary fact in their life.

The "educated dating educated" is probably the most reasonable in your list above, but even THAT won't carry universally because people's personalities are a factor, too. Some educated people might NEED a less smart mate to bolster themselves in some way. Who knows?

I never thought I could be attracted to anyone who wasn't pretty much like me in the physical sense. Again, as some noted it's surprising how personality can compensate in many people for lack of luster in the looks department.

See, you've got it. You have to reach that understanding at some point in life else you miss ALL the really good mate choices out there. Your best matches are almost guaranteed to come from you through a well-rounded, full life. Your best mate will be someone who DOES, who ACCOMPLISHES, who makes you laugh and who inspires you to do things you do even better than before. They may not share any of your interest in DOING those things themselves, but they will surely respect and motivate you.

Onward and upward.

roxypox · Dec 21, 2008, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Talaniman axiom- I like 'em all short, fat, skinny, or tall, blind cripple or crazy!

You like them crazy Talaniman?

Cad: yeah it is pretty funny, about attractiveness, personality and looks in general. Personality do matter a great deal and the way personality really can shine through and make a person look differently in your eyes. ;)

cadillac59 · Dec 21, 2008, 08:54 PM

So, it's OK to say, "I don't want to date an overweight person because their lifestyle and mine would be at odds and the last thing I want to do is make someone feel bad about themselves because of the way I lead my life."

It's NOT OK to say, "I don't want to date overweight people because they have issues and I don't want those issues." There may be people that is true for, but this second statement imposes a false sense of "inferiority" on a group and it's pointless to do that, ever.

Thank you for your thoughtful answer and the time you took to respond.

Since I find your reply helpful, let me play devil's advocate for a moment and ask a few more questions.

Anything wrong with saying, "I won't date anyone who is overweight because I have no respect for someone who won't take care of himself"? Or, "I won't date anyone who is overweight because I find overweight unattractive"?

It's not being superior, simply putting up stop signs on who I allow to have a sexual relationship with me (I have nothing against having overweight friends, business relationships, clients, etc). After all, who I allow in my bed is a uniquely personal choice, is it not?

I do find myself being rather critical of people I meet, but only in my own mind (I would never say these things to anyone). For example, I see a guy and often think "why doesn't he have hair transplants to cover that bald head, it's doesn't cost any more than that new car he's driving, and doesn't he care more about how he looks than the car he drives?" I think that way about someone who might have to spend $10,000 to fix their appearance so naturally I find myself being critical of people who can improve their appearance for virtually no cost at all (like by dieting or going to a gym). Anything wrong with that?

I know that sounds awful to some, but that's just how I think.

[I]Your best matches are almost guaranteed to come from you through a well-rounded, full life. Your best mate will be someone who DOES, who ACCOMPLISHES, who makes you laugh and who inspires you to do things you do even better than before. They may not share any of your interest in DOING those things themselves, but they will surely respect and motivate you.

I tend to agree, which I why I am trying to see beyond the superficial and focus on the whole person. But, is there anything wrong with setting standards of appearance, or is that something that should not matter?

JBeaucaire · Dec 22, 2008, 01:38 AM

Hehe, I'm enjoying watching you listen to yourself. It's hard, isn't it. And that's good.

No, there's nothing wrong with being critical of others in your own mind. I just don't believe people are as good at hiding their "inner thoughts" as they think they are. The songs you play in your head inevitably become the tunes you hum softly, and eventually sing outright. Just keep that in mind, too.

Anything wrong with saying, "I won't date anyone who is overweight because I have no respect for someone who won't take care of himself"? Or, "I won't date anyone who is overweight because I find overweight unattractive"?

Hmm, you open a big can of worms here. There isn't just one side to this. So let me agree (and restate what I said earlier) that you can choose any criteria you want to determine how you're going to select candidates for dating. Anything at all. ANYTHING. So, don't fret that part.

But remember what I said above about the "tunes in your head". I think it's important to train ourselves to think well. Saying in your mind, "I don't respect overweight people" is unfortunate... even if it's true. Statements like that assume SO MUCH to be true that may simply NOT BE TRUE. And yes, it IS a superior mindset who thinks things like this.

Is it wrong to setup stop signs for sexual criteria? No, I said you can use any criteria you want. But your thoughts eventually creep out into your character. It's one thing to decide not to pursue intimacy with heavy people because your lifestyles differ and you don't want to unnecessarily cause discomfort to yourself or others in the most intimate choices. It's another altogether to categorically place heavy people into the "I have no respect for them" slot.

It's awful. It's common, though, and actually it's perfectly understandable. But it's also awful. Let's be honest about that.

Respect for people should stem from their character judged honestly. Determining "respect" for people based on physical attributes and unilaterally determining in your mind what it means for them to be that way, it's just elitist in the purest way.

But you can do that. Absolutely. Can you keep that to yourself? Hehe, you can try. You'll succeed, mostly, but you won't be growing much as a person who interacts with people who deserve respect because of who they are.

The world is CRAWLING with imperfect people. Just because you keep the pounds off doesn't make you a winner. It makes you an exerciser. That's it. You derive certain known benefits from exercising. That's it. You don't "win" over others who don't do it, and they are succeeding in ways you're probably not.

So, everyone deserves your respect, ALWAYS, until they prove they're stupid ignoramuses by the sum of their actions, and we distance ourselves from them, leave them to their stupidity.

BTW, your comment about bald people and $10k physical improvement projects... I'd guess that most people have similar "fleeting" thoughts. But you're presenting a lot of them and it worries me you are missing out on a lot that life has to offer because of your "criteria"... but you're still welcome to have that criteria, absolutely.

You're just worrying me a little here.

talaniman · Dec 22, 2008, 09:15 AM

I think JB, is saying don't be an elitist snob.

Paininside1234 · Dec 22, 2008, 09:45 AM

My ex was gorgeous, but she treated me like dirt after all I did for her, I won't lie I stayed with her because of how sexy she was thinking I'll never get anyone again who looks that greAt. Well after three years she cheated And dumped me.

Well now months later I'm talking to a girl whose Average looking but man she may be the nicest girl I ever met, and I have so much in common with her and I'm falling for her.

roxypox · Dec 22, 2008, 10:03 AM

Paininside; yeah well, if you stay with someone b\c of their looks what do you really get out of it? Isn't it better to have a relationship with someone based on personallity and nature rather then.. wow she's freakin hot i gotta hold on to her! LOl seems a little silly to me!

cadillac59 · Dec 22, 2008, 04:19 PM

So to sum it all up, I'm sounding like an elitist snob? Well, perhaps. But don't be too hard on elitist snobs.

I suppose the rule is to get out of life what you want, as long as you don't hurt other people in the process of course, and surround yourself with people who uplift you.

As I said earlier I have no problem with anyone really, overweight or fit, as far as being friends is concerned (or having plutonic relationships). But when it comes to intimate relationships, aesthetics count quite a bit I think. Again, just my own opinion.

Jbeaucaire: interesing comments about being careful what we think since we have a tendency to hum the tunes on our minds and all. I like that.