[Choux]

Christian explanations of suffering:

1. Prophets say suffering is a punishment for sin.

2. Book of Job-Two answers

A. Suffering is a test and will be rewarded later for passing the test.
B. Suffering is beyond comprehension.

3. Ecclesiastes says suffering is the nature of things, and we must accept it.

4. In the apocalyptic tests in the Old and New Testaments-God will eventually make right what is wrong with the world.

These various explanations of why people must suffer illustrates that the Bible is not a single-minded text, but instead an amalgamation of various ideas.

As Christians, how do you deal with suffering in your life? Do these Biblical teachings listed above influence your approach to suffering?

[N0help4u]

Neither are we single minded people. Suffering and the reasons for suffering are as complex as people themselves.
Look at people who suffer it is never the same
*My old boyfriend suffers because he is his own worse enemy and makes bad decisions.
*I suffer because I try and help people and then end up on the short end of the stick.
*Some suffer because of bad circumstances.
*Some suffer because others trample them down getting to the top for themselves and not considering who they are stepping on.
*Some suffer because they just don't know any better (their own ignorance)
*Some suffer because things just never go right for them

I am sure if I think more on it I can come up with many more reasons people suffer. Like I said these various explanations of why people must suffer does not illustrate that the Bible is not a single-minded text, but rather that life and people are too complex for any one answer.

[Handyman2007]

We suffer because we perceive each and evr situation oin a certain way and when those conditions are changed, we cannot accept them immediately. Suffering is a human condition not a spiritual one. Althing was can suffer spiritually if we do not have faith in ourselves.

[De Maria]

Christian explanations of suffering:

1. Prophets say suffering is a punishment for sin.

2. Book of Job-Two answers

A. Suffering is a test and will be rewarded later for passing the test.
B. Suffering is beyond comprehension.

3. Ecclesiastes says suffering is the nature of things, and we must accept it.

4. In the apocalyptic tests in the Old and New Testaments-God will eventually make right what is wrong with the world.

These various explanations of why people must suffer illustrates that the Bible is not a single-minded text, but instead an amalgamation of various ideas.

As Christians, how do you deal with suffering in your life? Do these Biblical teachings listed above influence your approach to suffering?

These are the verses which help me deal with suffering in life:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

1 Peter 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

This is why the Church teaches:
793 Christ unites us with his Passover: all his members must strive to resemble him, "until Christ be formed" in them. "For this reason we . . . are taken up into the mysteries of his life, . . . associated with his sufferings as the body with its head, suffering with him, that with him we may be glorified."

1502 The man of the Old Testament lives his sickness in the presence of God. It is before God that he laments his illness, and it is of God, Master of life and death, that he implores healing. Illness becomes a way to conversion; God's forgiveness initiates the healing. It is the experience of Israel that illness is mysteriously linked to sin and evil, and that faithfulness to God according to his law restores life: "For I am the Lord, your healer." The prophet intuits that suffering can also have a redemptive meaning for the sins of others. Finally Isaiah announces that God will usher in a time for Zion when he will pardon every offense and heal every illness.

1505 Moved by so much suffering Christ not only allows himself to be touched by the sick, but he makes their miseries his own: "He took our infirmities and bore our diseases." But he did not heal all the sick. His healings were signs of the coming of the Kingdom of God. They announced a more radical healing: the victory over sin and death through his Passover. On the cross Christ took upon himself the whole weight of evil and took away the "sin of the world," of which illness is only a consequence. By his passion and death on the cross Christ has given a new meaning to suffering: it can henceforth configure us to him and unite us with his redemptive Passion.

[talaniman]

Stuff happens in life, and we just have to deal with it. We grow, and learn, and make adjustments.

[revdrgade]

Three things that I'm learning:

1.
For those who walk with God, He has good things planned for us. (Though He does discipline us if we wander too far. But I count that as shorter than "suffering")

Jas 1:17
17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
NIV

2.
The one who seeks to cause us to suffer is the devil.

Jn 10:10
0 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
NIV

3.
Wherever the suffering is coming from, God is going to give us beauty for ashes.

Ro 8:28-29
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
NIV

[arcura]

Choux,
Yes we suffer because we are of this world which has been called a veil of tears, a river of pain, and other things dealing with sufferung.
I have been doing a lot of suffering these last few years.
I do what I can about it medically and with prayer.
I pray for healing if God so wills.
I also offer my suffering up to God for the forgiveness of sins others and mine.
I pray that you will be able to handle your suffering well and if God so wills that you be healed.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[simoneaugie]

revdrgade, what is "jas 2"? "The one who seeks to cause us to suffer is the Devil."

We all have the power to make one another suffer. We all have the choice to perceive our circumstances as they are. If the above quote comes from the Bible, wouldn't it mean that Christians have the capacity to be the Devil? My experience with almost every Christian I come into contact with is that I am told I'm wrong. That could make me suffer, then they would be the Devil.

Choux, interesting question. The Christians can't make me suffer. Suffering is my own choice. They are not holier than thou, or holier than me because we are all one thing, already glorious. We have chosen to forget that. So, Jesus says "love your neighbor as yourself."

I know, it's all out of context... Feels like where my heart wants to be though. What if that feeling is true? Then my atheist neighbor is God and so are the Jewish and Musim ones! People who suffer and those who do not are God too.

[arcura]

simoneaugie,
Christians are NOT supposed to make you suffer.
They are supposed to be of help to you.
Christianity is supposed to be a religion of attraction.
We honor and worship a God of love, mercy, and salvation.
We are supposed to emulate God particularly in the physical form of Jesus Chrsit.
Jesus asks us to "Come to me you who are heavy laden and I will give you rest."
He helps us lift our suffering away through Him.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[magprob]

Because of original sin, mans fall from the garden, man must suffer. Before the fall, man had eternal life and perfection with GOD.

[arcura]

magprob,
Agreed!
Fred

[Choux]

Original sin is not Biblical.

[De Maria]

Original sin is not Biblical.

Only in the sense that the words "original sin" are not found in Scripture. But Adam and Eve did commit the first sin and that is the Original Sin. And the consequences of that sin were the loss of Original justice. And we call those consequences by the same name, it is called the condition of being in "Original Sin".

The Original Sin:

Genesis 3 10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. 11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? 12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The consequence thereof:
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Sincerely,

De Maria

[magprob]

And in that scripture hides the reason we are doing what we are doing today and why the world is what it is today. It was the original sin that gives reason to good and evil, death and life.

[revdrgade]

revdrgade, what is "jas 2"? "The one who seeks to cause us to suffer is the Devil."

Sorry for the confusion:



The "jas 2" that you ask about is not in my answer. The "Jas" is for "James" in the previous Bible quote and the "2" is the second (of the "3 things I know").

I then quoted Jesus saying that the devil ("the thief") is the primary source of suffering for humans. Adam and Eve BELIEVED the serpent in the garden, disobeyed God and thus caused most of our suffering.

The devil still deceives, even Christians. When we walk in the devil's ways we have left the ways of God's (to love Him and love our neighbor) and we do cause suffering even though we are God's born again children.

Eph 4:22-28
22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26 "In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
NIV

[arcura]

Rev,,
Very good.
I agree.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Choux]

No, the old testament says that God punishes, by expulsion from paradise, Adam and Eve for *disobeying* one of God's rules.

St. Augustine created the idea of Original Sin as part of his religious philosophy... original sin is not Biblical. St. Augustine said that Original Sin was passed along to the next generation through the male ejaculate.

[arcura]

Choux,
'Where is your information source for that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Choux]

"The view that sex was an evil was prevalent in Augustine's time. Plotinus, a neo-Platonist that Augustine praises in his Confessions,[39] taught that only through disdain for fleshly desire could one reach the ultimate state of mankind.[40] Augustine, likewise, had served as a "Hearer" for the Manicheans for about nine years,[41] and they also taught that the original sin was carnal knowledge.[42]

In his pre-Pelagian writings, Augustine taught that *Original Sin was transmitted by concupiscence* (roughly, lust), making humanity a massa damnata (mass of perdition, condemned crowd) and much enfeebling, though not destroying, the freedom of the will. In the struggle against Pelagianism, the principles of Augustine's teaching were confirmed by many councils, especially the Second Council of Orange (529). Anselm of Canterbury established the definition that was followed by the great Schoolmen, namely that Original Sin is the "privation of the righteousness which every man ought to possess", thus separating it from concupiscence, with which Augustine's disciples had often defined it, as later did Luther and Calvin, who instead of seeing concupiscence, like Augustine, as a vehicle of transmission of Original Sin actually equated the two, a doctrine condemned in 1567 by Pope Pius V.[31]

Augustine's formulation of the doctrine of original sin has substantially influenced both Catholic and Reformed (that is, Calvinist) theology. His understanding of sin and grace was developed against that of Pelagius.[43] Expositions on the topics are found in his works On Original Sin, On the Predestination of the Saints, On the Gift of Perseverance and On Nature and Grace."
----------

So, read his pre-Pelagian writings to see that he believed Original Sin was transferred to the next generation by male ejaculation. Should be interesting!

[Choux]

So, back to my question, "Why Must We Suffer?". The Biblical reasons were/are as I listed.

Original Sin is not Biblical.